Vote YAY for nihilism !!

Ohhhh my. Take a hiatus and look what happens.
Where to begin. How much do I care. How much can I take typing on this ridiculous laptop keyboard because my main PC died, all that, questions questions yadda boogaloo.
Alright. You first.

barcelonic said:
Erm... I have to say I'm quite confused. Nihilism is not a wasting disease or a bout of alcoholism, and yet you seem to treat it as such. Either that or you are being passive-aggressive - I'd rather lean toward the former. :)
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Nope. It isn't either of those. But it can result in either or both. Why not?
Are you going to sit there and deny the conflict between your lack of belief, and that sneaking suspicion that everyone else might be right? Every nihilist has millennium of cultural conditioning to deal with.
Or do you claim absolute knowledge? Naughty naughty.

"Once you admit to being a nihilist"
You mean, like I did in the OP?
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Yes, like you did in the OP.
...?

"You're going to have to deal with that negative connotation"I've been a nihilist for years, y'know. In fact, I'd say I know a lot more about it than you do and there is nothing for me to "deal with". Perhaps you too would see said connotation as an injustice if you better understood where it came from.
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Hah!
Here we go: you've rolled out the "I know better than you do" argument.
I have several options here. I can ignore it, respond with the "no you bloody well don't" line, try to figure out how old you are and base a judgement on that, I could go all passive and say "well, maybe you do"....
Tch tch.What to do.

Who the hell cares if it's an injustice or not? It is what it is. Of course you have to deal with some people treating it as being negative. You might also ignore that completely, but you're here, you chose to address it and therefore you're already considering it and finding a way to deal with it. Right? Don't say you "don't have to deal with it" because saying that is dealing with it.

"...solutions to your problem."
Excuse me? Do you think it civil to label somebody's beliefs a "problem". I have no problem but the one you seem intent on creating!
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I'm not "creating" anything. I'm not particularly civil most of the time either.
Do you have this idea that nihilism is only what your experience dictates it to be?
Like those Christians who run around saying only Christians are capable of true happiness? You one of those? You know, those ones who run around saying "Don't listen to all those other god-botherers, only I can lead you to enlightenment..."

The comment was actually that you have to deal with "them" and their attitudes towards you. Try reading it from a sympathetic point of view. There are some drawbacks to typing these things. I could, I suppose, with the benefit of hindsight, put the little air quotes around the word "problem".
You're being more than just a little defensive you know.

"Everyone thinks they have an answer. You don't."
Have I done something to offend you, o wise stranger? You seem to be particularly antagonistic toward me and I can't explain why - ??
Sure, I disagree all the time but I don't speak to others like children. Mostly I'm just not that offended by pure disagreement.
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So you're a nice guy. Here's a gold star. I'm not.
Nihilism doesn't provide answers. If anything, it tends to lead to more questions. Questions with no answers, other than those you choose to accept.

"... a non-position"
Is that what others think or what you think? Please elaborate on this because it is news to me.
Honestly, this is a discussion forum. I don't feel I should have to ask you to elaborate on something like this. Perhaps you could try beginning the sentence with, "Some people think it's a non-position BECAUSE...."
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I could try that, but I'd be being dishonest. That would be passive-aggressive. I do think it's a non-position. You believe only in those things you choose to, knowing in your heart of hearts that your beliefs are only your own, and not absolute truth. You can take any position on anything you want to, and another nihilist might take a different position.
Thought you said you knew about nihilism? That's like, nihilism-101. Your beliefs are not absolute truth - they're only your beliefs.

No belief has inherent value.
Your personal beliefs have value only with respect to their value to you.
I often view nihilists as like Meth addicts who have hit rock-bottom, have decided that life is more interesting than death, and now have to deal with the climb back up.
Sometimes, you have to deal with those nihilists who haven't yet hit bottom, yet claim they have.

Why are you being so disrespectful? It seems rather out-of-the-blue :(
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I don't think I was being disrespectful at all. Initially.
 
Yazata said:
'Nihilist' is typically a perjorative, an insult or term of abuse. It isn't typically something that people call themselves. More or less by definition, a nihilist believes in nothing and disdains all values.

I agree with you that values, and good and evil in particular, probably aren't built into the universe itself. Human beings give rise to them.

But I most emphatically don't identify myself with nihilism, precisely because I do believe in things and don't disdain all values.

I just think that our human values are precisely that, human values, and most likely are local here on Earth, instead of being universal or divine. If we ever encounter space-aliens, they might conceivably have very different analogues of moral values. But if they live in social groups, then there will probably be something that plays a similar role in regulating their behavior so that it's functional in an evolutionary sense.
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Trooper said:
Well said, Yazata.
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You know, reading you two is like watching a couple of high school girls dipping their toes in the water and saying they won't go for a swim because the water is too cold.

Let me paraphrase what you're saying:
"Yes, I agree with everything you're saying, and there is no objective truth in anything at all. But I just can't call myself a "nihilist" because, you know, that's just so uncool".
 
Trooper said:
I didn't think The Marquis was being disrespectful. I think it is important that we do not misconstrue his thought here.
I’m curious. What are you going to do?
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Who the hell knows? Whatever I decide to do. And that will be the result of whatever serves me best.
The same everyone else does. Despite their pretty (the "r" is optional) intellectual camouflage.

For me, the question is whether I become myself or continue to exist inauthentically as a member of the public.
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.... I like that. "inauthentically a member of the public."

Christians, Atheists, Anarchists, Liberals, Conservatives and nihilists... all swanning around espousing their beliefs (or lack of them), to anyone who will listen, within one of the very few social fabrics from within they can safely do so.

Hubris.
 
The Marquis said:
You know, reading you two is like watching a couple of high school girls dipping their toes in the water and saying they won't go for a swim because the water is too cold.

Let me paraphrase what you're saying:

"Yes, I agree with everything you're saying, and there is no objective truth in anything at all. But I just can't call myself a "nihilist" because, you know, that's just so uncool".
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”I want to learn more and more to see as beautiful what is necessary in things; then I shall be one of those who make things beautiful.”-Nietzsche

We preserve and serve what we love. Life serves me best...tit for tat. And yes, you’re right, even this is vanity. Vanity of vanities; all is vanity, but what is so uncool about a Yes-sayer, hmm?

For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything.

wynn said:
How are you not being yourself?
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He nailed it.

The Marquis said:
within one of the very few social fabrics from within they can safely do so.
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How are you "not being yourself" if you are a member of the public?

Do you really think that membership in a group really makes you less you?
 
How are you "not being yourself" if you are a member of the public?
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I'm an introvert. In person, I was quiet, and non-offensive, but I'm changing.
 
Trooper said:
I'm an introvert. In person, I was quiet, and non-offensive, but I'm changing.
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If you consider yourself an "introvert", then clearly, already by using that term for yourself, you are subscribing to a particular outlook held by a public that you don't want to be part of.

Talk about "existing inauthentically as a member of the public."

"Hello, my name is Trooper and I'm an introvert. I fully subscribe to whatever label other people care to give me."

Sheesh.
 
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This is one of the most bizarre threads i've ever seen.

If somebody is an introvert then they are an introvert - it's not a label. If they are a human they are a human - same thing.

Everyone who's ever existed is a member of a group.

I've no idea what Wynn is trying to get at here?
 
wynn said:
If you consider yourself an "introvert", then clearly, already by using that term for yourself, you are subscribing to a particular outlook held by a public that you don't want to be part of.

Talk about "existing inauthentically as a member of the public."

"Hello, my name is Trooper and I'm an introvert. I fully subscribe to whatever label other people care to give me."

Sheesh.
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Certain labels are useful, wynn. What's wrong with being an introvert? It doesn't mean that I don’t like to talk or socialize. In fact, I’m quite good at it. I just don’t care for small talk or unnecessary chatter. It doesn't mean that I don’t want nor have friends. I simply prefer quality over quantity. It’s true that I enjoy quiet alone time, but that doesn't mean that I don’t seek authentic connections.

When people learn that I’m an avid reader, the question that I normally get is, "Oh, have you read 'Fifty Shades of Grey'?" No...no, I haven’t. Have you, wynn?

The Power of Introverts

barcelonic said:
I've no idea what Wynn is trying to get at here?
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Unnecessary chatter? :shrug:
 
Trooper said:
Certain labels are useful, wynn. What's wrong with being an introvert? It doesn't mean that I don’t like to talk or socialize. In fact, I’m quite good at it. I just don’t care for small talk or unnecessary chatter. It doesn't mean that I don’t want nor have friends. I simply prefer quality over quantity. It’s true that I enjoy quiet alone time, but that doesn't mean that I don’t seek authentic connections.

When people learn that I’m an avid reader, the question that I normally get is, "Oh, have you read 'Fifty Shades of Grey'?" No...no, I haven’t. Have you, wynn?

The Power of Introverts

Unnecessary chatter? :shrug:
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Ah, how politically correct you are ...

:shrug:
 
Trooper said:
For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
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In direct opposition, really, to the old "better one day as an lion" adage.
Far too succinct...

How did the lion die?
How does the dog live?

Is the dog only living in hope of becoming the lion?
Then why isn't the dog a lion?
 
The Marquis said:
In direct opposition, really, to the old "better one day as an lion" adage.
Far too succinct...

How did the lion die?
How does the dog live?

Is the dog only living in hope of becoming the lion?
Then why isn't the dog a lion?
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Gee, you came to quote the Bible??!

Ecclesiastes 9:4-5
King James Version (KJV)
4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.


From Matthew Henry's commentary:

Verses 4-10
Solomon, in a fret, had praised the dead more than the living (Eccl. 4:2); but here, considering the advantages of life to prepare for death and make sure the hope of a better life, he seems to be of another mind.

I. He shows the advantages which the living have above those that are dead, Eccl. 9:4-6. 1.
/.../
Hence he infers that it is our wisdom to make the best use of life that we can while it does last, and manage wisely what remains of it.
/.../

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+9:4-5&version=KJV
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The Marquis said:
In direct opposition, really, to the old "better one day as an lion" adage.
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"Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."

In other words, "control thy passions lest they take vengeance on thee."-Epictetus

Life’s Transitoriness
I never tire of saying that the only really transitory aspects of life are the potentialities. Thus, the transitoriness of our existence in no way makes it meaningless. But it does constitute our responsibleness. Man constantly makes his choice concerning the mass of present potentialities; which of these will be condemned to nonbeing and which will be actualized? Which choice will be made an actuality one and forever, an immortal "footprint in the sands of time"? -Victor Frankl
 
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