Finding our own meaning in life is delusional

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by MattMVS7, Nov 11, 2014.

  1. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    If materialism, naturalism, and scientism are true, then you would be delusional to find meaning in your life (as stated by materialism, naturalism, and scientism which state that life is just a bunch of meaningless atoms and particles). There are things in science that do have objective meaning. For example, the fact that the Earth revolves around the sun is a scientific fact and you would, therefore, be delusional to think otherwise. Same thing with creating our own meanings in life since life really has no meaning in terms of science. You would, therefore, be delusional in finding your own personal meanings in life since life has no meaning. If you are going to say something here such as that this is a logical fallacy I am presenting here, then what I would have to say in return is that your own personal viewpoints in that people would not be delusional in creating their own meanings in life, this would also be a logical fallacy since finding your own personal meanings in life when life has no meaning is a contradiction. I don't even care if it's in our evolutionary design to find meaning in life in order to survive and benefit our survival. You would still be delusional in finding your own meanings in life anyway.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
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  3. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    I would just like to state one very important thing to add on to my opening post here and this would be it:

    Now you might also be thinking that, since it is in our evolutionary design to find meaning in life in order to survive and benefit our survival, that to even perceive this as delusional would contradict our evolutionary design and would be a delusional viewpoint in of itself in terms of evolution as a result. But this would be false because the only way for it to contradict our evolutionary design is if we were to tell ourselves the message that "We are not designed by evolution to find meaning in our lives." That would be the only message that would contradict our evolutionary design. Telling ourselves that "We are delusional in finding meaning in our lives" does not contradict our evolutionary design.

    Finally, even Stephen Hawking himself has stated that philosophy is dead and that science is all there is. The viewpoints that others have regarding that you can find your own personal meanings in life and that this would not be delusional, these are philosophical viewpoints which would actually be "dead" (false):

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...-Hawking-tells-Google-philosophy-is-dead.html
     
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  5. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    Just curious, what is the meaning of a rock?
     
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  7. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    To say that something IS when, in reality, it is not, would be delusional regardless of what you think otherwise. So any personal meanings you create in life are your brain's way of telling you that these meanings ARE. Even if you tell yourself something such as that these meanings you create are not objective (definite) meanings, the fact is, for you to view these personal meanings as true for yourself and for your personal life is your mind's way of telling you that these meanings are definite meanings which would be false since they are not. It would be saying that since even you as a person are a bunch of meaningless atoms and particles, that any personal meanings you create hold true for you which would be false because you would be saying that you and this life both have meaning while at the same time they both don't have meaning which is contradictory.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
  8. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Define "meaning".
     
  9. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    There is no meaning. It is just a bunch of atoms and particles and that is it. But this would only hold true for things besides scientific facts such as the Earth revolving around the sun and also the scientific fact that this life has no meaning.
     
  10. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion.- Democritus
     
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    There is meaning in the universe, and it isn't just created by us. Every time you wake up in the morning you are thrown into a day full of meaningful events. People surround you to whom you are meaningful. You have a job that has meaning to you. The TV reports newsevents that are full of meaning. Your cat jumps into your lap and there's meaning again. Meaning permeates our whole existence. It is the very nature of being conscious and a part of the world. And none of this can be reduced to the action of mere atoms.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
  12. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    As this is ostensibly a science forum, prove it.
     
  13. fogpipe Registered Member

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    Well to paraphrase Gertrude Stein, "a rock is a rock is a rock"
    The delusion of meaning or a lack of it is right at the top of the list of ways to make yourself crazy. Things left to themselves are just themselves, whether rocks, trees, or people or whatever and that is enough, if you can manage it.
     
  14. fogpipe Registered Member

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    EDIT: I realize that was directed at someone else, forgive me, i couldnt resist.
    dammit, i meant that to be an edit not a new post, sorry.
     
  15. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    'Meaning' has at least two different meanings.

    On one hand, there's linguistic meaning. Strings of sounds or visible symbols often seem to communicate ideas. It still isn't clear how that happens but there's no denying that language exists. We might follow Peirce and broaden this so as to include natural signs (such as clouds signifying rain), icons (such as photographic images) and conventional signs (such as red signifying danger).

    On the other hand, there's meaning in the 'meaning of life' sense. In this use, 'meaning' seems to mean teleology. So in order to have meaning in this sense, life would have to have a purpose, goal, completion or some state of perfection that people should be striving to reach.

    One of the attractions that religion still has for millions of people is that it assures them that life is meaningful in this second teleological sense. Life isn't just one damn thing after another until we finally die. It's headed somewhere, towards some final culmination. All the seemingly unconnected events of our lives are steps in that journey.
     
  16. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    I think that I'm going to disagree with that.

    We can perhaps agree that the universe as a whole, the human race, or even my individual life, don't seem to have any ultimate goal, purpose or destination. (There may be one, but I don't know what it is or even where to look to find it.)

    But having said that, it's undeniable that my life is filled with smaller goals and purposes all the time. I go to the supermarket to buy food. I log onto the internet to see what people have been posting on Sciforums. These aren't some grand cosmic purpose imposed on me from above, rather they are smaller scale purposes that I give myself and that motivate all of my actions. Most of the things I do are purposeful, acts performed to achieve ends.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the logical fallacy.
     
  17. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    OP is claiming that only god can provide personal meaning to one's life and that obviously wrong.
     
  18. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    OK - so life has no objective point to it. Is this a problem?
     
  19. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    So for you to believe that any personal meaning you create in life holds true for you and holds true for your own personal life would be no different than saying that "I know that it's a scientific fact that the Earth revolves around the sun. But I don't have to believe that it holds true for me as a person nor that it holds true for me in my own personal life and that I can create any personal meaning I want and instead believe that meaning holds true for me and holds true for my own personal life. I can believe anything I want such as that the Earth is flat and is the center of the universe and that words don't have to mean what they mean or that scientific facts have to be what they are. I can say that the color blue is actually the color black, that hot is cold, etc. and this will hold true for me and my own personal life while in actual reality itself it doesn't hold true at all. And even if these personal meanings don't hold true at all for me and in my own personal life, I can still have them anyway in my life and live by them anyway."

    So as you can see here, this would be nonsense since it is a scientific fact that life has no meaning and that we are also a bunch of meaningless atoms and particles. This is no different than the mindset of a religious person who has a delusional belief in a God and the supernatural. Therefore, it's not just religious people and delusional people who are the only ones delusional. Even atheists, highly intelligent people, and scientists themselves can be delusional here. Sure, you can still live by those personal meanings you have created in life despite knowing that they are not true since this universe does not tell us how we should think, but it would all still be nonsense anyway. I don't even care about the fact that if we didn't have any created personal meanings in life, that we would all be dead since we would all just be sitting there and not finding any reason to get up and eat, socialize, or do any other activities. We would all still be living nonsensical and delusional lives anyway for being human and living our personal lives and making the best of this life regardless of the fact that this is in our evolutionary design to do so and that this is how evolution designed us. It's only if this life had an objective meaning through there being a God and an afterlife of eternal joy would we find reason to live our lives and find that meaning in our lives.

    Now if you are going to ask something such as that "To be is not to be? To be is not the way to be?" what I would have to say to that would be that there is no "way" in the first place since even that quoted word is a personal meaning.
     
  20. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    Is he? How can you tell? The man is so long winded I haven't been able to read more than a few sentences into any one of his forty odd, and I do mean odd, posts yet. I've noticed somewhere Comrade Youreyes asked him to pare down his meaning to five sentences, and he shot back thirty.

    Matt, work with us if you want to be understood.

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  21. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    Finally, I'm just going to throw one more thought of mine out here in case it is convincing and refutes all of philosophy and the beliefs about finding your own value in life not being delusional nonsense. To say that concepts such as value, worth, and beauty do exist in this universe, but are not things that are scientific and can't be defined by science and, therefore, you are free to live by them and not view them as being delusional since they are separate from this universe and are not a part of this meaningless universe and can't be defined by this meaningless universe, this would be false. These concepts are created by the meaningless atoms and particles in our brains that come up with these concepts in the first place (so these might be measurable concepts in the future through advanced neurological technology that can measure the amount of value, worth, and beauty in this person's mind by measuring the amount of activity of those atoms and particles that have created these concepts in this person's mind). Therefore, these concepts ARE the functioning of those atoms and particles that have created them in our brains and are, therefore, meaningless as well and to view them as being true for yourself and true for your personal life would be delusional nonsense.
     
  22. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    598
    This time I got four lines in, my eyes glazed over and I realized I hadn't been able to follow past word three. What's Matt on about this time, and every other time? I have no idea. Do you?
     
  23. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    How we come to the conclusion (the scientific fact) that this universe is meaningless is through scientific evidence. Therefore, you might be thinking that since there is also scientific evidence for created personal meanings being accomplished as something meaningful in life, in helping ourselves and others, doing great things in life, keeping us alive, etc. that this would somehow mean that these created meanings are not delusional nonsense. But this would be false. This entire universe and everything in it is all meaningless and the meaningless of all these things is what defines even our own personal created meanings in life. The scientific fact of this universe being meaningless tells us that our created meanings are false just like how the scientific fact of the Earth revolving around the sun tells us that we would be false to have created personal meanings that say things such as that the Earth is the center of the universe and that the sun revolves around the Earth instead.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2014

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