Consciousness...

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Seattle, Dec 29, 2014.

  1. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Consciousness is certainly an interesting subject. In a way, the more interesting aspect of consciousness is the degree to which it isn't involved in much of our activities

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    It seems it's mainly involved in the learning phases of our daily life and not involved in much of the rest of our activities. Once we have learned to walk, it's possible to walk in our sleep (unconscious).

    When we type, play music, or perform most any activity that we have practiced extensively in the past we aren't doing these things consciously. In fact, once we start to think our proficiency generally degrades.

    In sports, when one is "in the zone" I think that's probably when consciousness has little to do with the outcome.

    I guess one could argue that we spend much of our life not exhibiting "free will" or "consciousness". Maybe we are all just one step away from zombiedom

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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    So once we have masted a task so well we have no conscious decisions to make while doing it, we don't need to be conscious of the doing of it.

    Kind of reminds me of the message I once saw on my screen, after a two week exchange with the gurus about a simple part of a website setup and my request for a manual to facilitate the process: "It's simple enough that once you know what you're doing you don't really need a manual".

    I exhibited free will in abandoning further exchanges with the gurus or development efforts within their manual-free system, and searching elsewhere for website development facilitation.

    I would also abandon views of human will and consciousness that end up asserting their triviality. Zombies cannot learn new things. Zombie babies would never learn to walk.
     
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  5. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Being a tradesman I had to use my conscious all of the time. When repairing anything I had to think about the task at hand to be able to formulate a way of getting the job done and every job was different in many ways. No job was exactly the same as any others for they all had different ways to solve them. So I needed my mind to be always thinking about ways to get things done correctly, by code and as fast as I could.
     
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  7. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, you had moments of consciousness along with long periods of automatic behavior since you didn't have to constantly relearn your trade or the codes.
     
  8. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    But the codes did change from year to year. I had to think about the task at hand for working around electricity and water under pressure I would be foolish to just go on automatic like you are suggesting.
     
  9. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not suggest that you did that. I'm just suggesting that the way our mind works is to not be in conscious mode all the time. Just as an animal doesn't have to constantly update the visual picture in his mind but only that portion of the visual picture that has movement.
     
  10. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I'd disagree because I'm always conscious of what I'm doing while not asleep. There are to many things that can happen to you if you start going on automatic and just stop thinking.
     
  11. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    We are always thinking in one sense. Our frontal lode keeps those (often) radom thoughts coming. However, when you ride a bike you aren't thinking about how to ride the bike. When you type you aren't having to think for your fingers.

    Much of what you do doesn't actually require thought once you learn the activity.
     
  12. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Try working around live electric wires because just one mistake can kill you or others. It requires allot of thinking and once you think you know it all is when you will suffer injuries or death.
     
  13. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sure that there is much that you know by rote at this point. If you are on a job and a novice is on that same job you will complete the same task much faster because you aren't having to think as much for every task.

    That's not to say that you don't have to be careful. It's just that we all have many learned tasks that no longer require as much thinking as when we originally learned the task.

    You don't have to think about how to type when you post on this forum do you?
     
  14. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    It is when you think you know it all is when trouble usually happens.
     
  15. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    You do realize that I'm not advocating anyone to quit thinking. I'm just describing what actually does happen.
     
  16. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Consciousness is often confused with being self aware. Animals are conscious, but it is not clear if they self aware. Self awareness is what allows willpower and choice. Self awareness is an objectivity to oneself, implying one is aware of oneself, in an objective way. One way to explain this is, human have two centers of consciousness, one connected to the conscious mind; ego, and the other center is connected to the unconscious mind; inner self. Animals have an inner self, but they lack an ego. They have singular consciousness; instinct. Humans have dual consciousness.

    As an example, in card games, like poker, the skilled players often look for what are called "tells" in the other players. Tells are unconscious quirks, like finger tapping or scratching the nose, which can tell players what the other player is thinking in terms of the value of the cards they are holding.

    The body language of the "tell", is generated by the unconscious center or the inner self. It is like an instinctive consciousness reaction to the situation. In many cases, the conscious mind or the ego is not aware of this quirk. They will continue to tap or scratch at each good hand. A degree of self awareness happens when the ego becomes conscious of this unconscious quirk, so they can recognize when it is about to happen so they can disguise it or falsely display it to fool the others.

    Self awareness comes from the ego and is based on it becoming conscious of the consciousness within the unconscious mind. Will power and choice require we recognize the unconscious way so we can then opt for an alternative. Animals lack the second center or the ego center, and therefore can't be aware of the primary, so they can over ride it in a willful way.

    One can become conscious of our phobias, compulsions, addictions and habits. Each of these display consciousness in the sense they can interact and adapt. However, this does not mean one can always control these various conscious things coming from the unconscious mind. The controlling and overriding is where willpower and free choice comes in.

    The next level above will power and choice is learning to develop a cooperation between the two centers that optimize both. The conscious center uses 10% of the brain while the unconscious center uses 90%, so it benefits both if when they learn to integrate. This is the future of evolution.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
  17. zgmc Registered Senior Member

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    Its not that you don't have to think as much, but you can think more steps ahead and keep moving. I am also a tradesman(cabinetmaker). If I am not locked into what I am doing, something will go bad. You have to consciously think about every single cut you make on the table saw for example.
     
  18. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Long term skill development, in various crafts, programs subroutines within the unconscious mind, that have a consciousness of their own. The inner self does most of the data crunching, even adapting a finite set of experiences to new and unique situations where little data was previously available; intuitive creativity.

    Since the skill output is very fluent, the conscious mind will not often become self aware that the unconscious mind is doing this. Rather the ego takes credit; I am the best. This detachment is useful because, too much self awareness of the details of the unconscious skill can actually undermine the inner self. The ego may attempts to put its own stamp in the process, diluting 90% with 10%. One may have to take a break so the hunch will come back.
     
  19. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Consciousness can be defined many ways of course and that's part of the problem I realize. I use it and think of it along the lines of wakefulness or being aware and present in the moment (what animals seem to experience) and then that added step where language is involved. It's more than language but language describes it pretty well. That added "language" step is what I'm calling "consciousness".

    When we get "in the zone" in athletic activities we essentially quit thinking for the most part and solely rely on previously learned routines. Typing is another example. If you are a good typist thinking actually slows you down and creates mistakes.

    My cat is aware, lives in the moment, is great with routine and with motor skills related to anything with motion. He has social needs, feels pain, etc. He isn't thinking about what he is going to do next week however.

    He also isn't thinking using language which is almost solely how we think. We have "voices" running through our head all the time regarding various options that we have at any moment.

    If we had no language those voices would stop. We would be left solely with mental images and we would be hard pressed to think as deeply as we currently do just relying on mental images.

    Mental images are all my cat has. He also has a much smaller frontal lobe (percentage-wise) than humans.

    Nevertheless we do spend more time not thinking than may be apparent on first reflection. When something has been practiced over and over motor memory takes the place of thinking.

    It's the same with our visual field. The brain only has to update the part of our visual field that has moved. Sometimes it doesn't even do that but just fills in spots in a way that makes sense (blind spot being an example).

    It's the same with facial recognition. It only has to pick up enough clues for you to realize that what you're looking at is a face.

    My cat may think he has free will

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    but I can predict 90% of his behavior

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    Humans are more like that than we think sometimes.
     
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  20. Amar Nath Reu Be your own guru Registered Senior Member

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    Perhaps it is the 10% which matters.

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  21. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Well I take what you are saying as you somehow put your mind on autopilot and cruise through your workday without much awareness as to what you are doing because you've been doing it for so long.
     
  22. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    No.
     
  23. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    look into melanie boly's work
     

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