What's With Russia?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by joepistole, Nov 11, 2014.

  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Russia has now threatened Denmark with nuclear destruction if it participates the NATO missile defense system, and Putin's aggression continues to grow. I don't think the West has much choice here. Missile defense systems have now become imperative for the West.

    http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/03/22/denmark-russia-idINKBN0MI0MN20150322

    Putin hosted facists from across Europe.

    "ST. PETERSBURG, Russia (AP) — Nationalist supporters of Russian President Vladimir Putin brought together controversial far-right politicians from across Europe on Sunday in an effort to demonstrate international support for Russia and weaken European Union commitment to sanctions imposed on Russia over its role in Ukraine.

    Putin's critics pointed to the irony of St. Petersburg, his hometown, welcoming neo-Nazis as Russia prepares to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the Soviet Union's victory over Nazi Germany in World War II.

    The meeting drew about 40 protesters, who held signs denouncing fascism, and about eight of them were detained by police." http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/mar/22/european-far-right-politicians-in-russia-to/
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    And then there was this...


    Russia threatened to aim nuclear missiles at Danish warships if Denmark joins NATO's missile defense system, in comments Copenhagen called unacceptable and NATO said would not contribute to peace.

    Denmark said in August it would contribute radar capacity on some of its warships to the missile shield, which the Western alliance says is designed to protect members from missile launches from countries like Iran.

    Moscow opposes the system, arguing that it could reduce the effectiveness of its own nuclear arsenal, leading to a new Cold War-style arms race.

    In an interview in the newspaper Jyllands-Posten, the Russian ambassador to Denmark, Mikhail Vanin, said he did not think Danes fully understood the consequences of joining the program.

    "If that happens, Danish warships will be targets for Russian nuclear missiles," Vanin told the newspaper.

    Asked to respond, NATO spokeswoman Oana Lungescu said Denmark was a staunch member of the alliance and NATO would defend all allies against any threat.

    "We have made clear that NATO's ballistic missile defense is not directed at Russia or any country, but is meant to defend against missile threats. This decision was taken a long time ago, so we are surprised at the timing, tone and content of the statements made by Russia's ambassador to Denmark," she said.

    "Such statements do not inspire confidence or contribute to predictability, peace or stability," she added.


    Welp..

    They oppose the system because it means their ability to bomb countries may not be as effective as they may like, so because Denmark wishes to improve its security and defense against the possibility of incoming nuclear missiles, Russia threatens their ships with nuclear missiles..

    Russia's stance is 'you are not allowed to defend yourself in the event of a nuclear attack.. Our missiles must be able to get through..'

    Putin's Russia is fast becoming a pariah State.
     
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  7. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Why should Putin be allowed to wave his nukes around, but Denmark and Ukraine aren't allowed to do the same? I don't think we've reached that point yet, but somewhere down the line countries like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Ukraine, Poland etc. living under constant harassment and nuclear threats, need to ask themselves what the use is in maintaining the same bilateral and multilateral agreements that their enemies are gleefully ignoring.

    Putin seems to think that America's nuclear umbrella is only conditional and won't go into use if push comes to shove somewhere far from its borders. Paradoxically, central and eastern Europe might actually be safer if they made it a non-issue.
     
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    Denmark are not waving any nukes around. They are signing up to a defensive shield system, which would present missiles from reaching their territory. That is what Russia is angry about.
     
  9. Kristoffer Giant Hyrax Valued Senior Member

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    As a Dane I must say I'm proud that Putania are so scared of us they threaten us with nukes.
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    All hail Mother Putin.

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    God forbid people shouldn't want to blindly submit to Putin's will. How dare the Danes or anyone else or that matter.

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    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
  11. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    "Among those who are pushing for increased sanctions on Russia and ignoring its significant role in winning World War II are the sons and daughters of fascist and Nazi Eastern European emigrés who arrived in the United States in the years following the war, mostly via the Central Intelligence Agency’s «Operation Paperclip», to escape trials for supporting the Nazi cause in their homelands..."

    http://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...t-to-rewrite-the-history-of-world-war-ii.html
     
    youreyes likes this.
  12. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, if you look hard enough you can see all 12 of them baying for blood on the nightly news. Meanwhile, I hear it's a lot easier to be openly neo-Nazi in Russia these days than it is to be secretly homosexual.
     
  13. Bells Staff Member

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    He's aiming for your war ships because the NATO shield defense could mean his nukes would be less effective if he were to launch them against your country.. Hence the major dummy spit.

    The gall of you people... How dare you have a system that would prevent you being bombed!

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  14. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    Guess than putting a Russian alternative of a missiles system in Cuba, should keep USA happy and not complaining.

    Or say same missiles system in Indonesia, to keep the Aussies happy.

    I am suuuuuuuure you would appreciate having missiles in your backyard and not complain about it)
     
  15. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    How would it make a difference to America's strategic security if Russia did that, other than forcing Cuba back into isolation? Russia already has the means to mount long-range strikes and hit major US targets with or without Cuba, it's the fact that US retaliation would melt Moscow to the ground that deters them.
     
  16. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    And what does that mean exactly? Are you insinuating that Mother Russia could put a nuclear missile facility inside Cuba? You are assuming Russia has an “alternative” to put a nuclear launch facility inside Cuba. Giving how well the Cuban-Russian arrangement has worked for Cuba all these many years (i.e. leaving it in absolute poverty), I doubt Cuba would once again become a nuclear target and sacrifice the very modest economy it now has for Mother Russia once again. Russia is in dire economic straits as it is; Russia can barely afford to maintain Russia much less Cuba or anyone else for that matter. And what makes you think Indonesia would want to host Russian nuclear missiles? That’s an even stranger assertion.

    Additionally, land based nuclear missile systems are the backbone of Russian nuclear forces. However, land based nuclear missile systems have become obsolete. The US has discussed eliminating them on several occasions. I think their value is more political than military. They are easy targets and can be easily taken out. Shooting Russian military aircraft of any stripe would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Russian aircraft are antiquated – especially their bombers forces – and are easy targets for Western aircraft.

    Russian nuclear forces really are not that much of a threat to the West. They might get a first strike by launching a nuclear cruise missile from a bomber at close range. But that will be the first and last nuke they drop before being completely annihilated by Allied forces. The one weapon which might pose a problem for the west is Russia’s newly created nuclear cruise missile. But Russia only has one of them, and it is going to take time to develop sufficient numbers to pose a significant threat to Allied powers. That is one reason why the US has created missile defense systems – something Mother Russia doesn’t have. US military naval vessels and some aircraft are now armed with laser defense systems which are full capable of destroying Russian nuclear missiles at the speed of light. So Mother Putin ought to think long and hard before deciding to attack the West.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2015
  17. Bells Staff Member

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    Considering we are no longer (supposedly) in the Cold War. Why would Putin feel the need to put missiles in Cuba at all?

    You clearly have not seen the size or scope of the Indonesian defence system. Ours are minuscule by comparison.

    And I believe Indonesia has a missile defence system/shield in place anyway. So your point would be what, exactly? Are they not allowed to have a system in place to ensure protection from possible missiles attacking them?

    Russia's reaction is tantamount to a "I have to be able to use nuclear weapons against you" argument. Which is absolutely ridiculous. Because Denmark poses such a threat to them that they had to be able to use nuclear weapons against them in the first place?

    This is not the first time that Russia has tried to flex its muscles at Denmark.

    Which is why Putin is driving Russia into becoming a pariah State.

    We do.

    And we aren't complaining about it.
     
  18. Bells Staff Member

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    Russian bombers flying at supersonic speeds caused NATO to scramble interceptors after threats from Moscow to target Denmark with nuclear missiles.

    The Tu-22M “Backfire” bombers, escorted by two Su-27 “Flanker” fighters, were detected flying fast over the Baltic Sea on Tuesday Australian time. At least one of the bombers was reported to be travelling at supersonic speed in a dash towards Denmark.

    The Russian aircraft were flying in international airspace without air-traffic control transponders being turned on and were maintaining radio silence, refusing to respond to calls for their intended flight path.

    Italian Typhoon fighters, tasked by NATO to provide air patrol duties over the Baltic, were urgently scrambled and sent to intercept the Russian strike force. The NATO fighters also had to travel at supersonic speeds to catch the bombers.

    Military blog theaviationist.com reports the supersonic Tu-22M slowed when intercepted before rejoining its three companions. Swedish and Finnish fighter jets joined the force monitoring the Russians’ movements.

    It was just one of several Cold War era style probes by Russian forces in recent days. A Tu-95 “Bear” was intercepted off Japan over the disputed Kuril Islands at the weekend.

    Earlier this week Moscow threatened Denmark that it would become a target for nuclear attack if it joined a NATO missile defence program.​

    This kind of crap is unacceptable. Putin is pushing the world towards another Cold War and he is insane enough and stupid enough to actually use a nuclear weapon to prove his manhood.
     
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I think Browder has it right. Putin is a scared man riding a tiger he cannot get off. Putin has stolen too much money and murdered too many people to ever relinquish power. Putin is trying to avoid imprisonment and the executioner.

    "I've been screaming bloody murder since Sergei Magnitsky was killed in 2009," Browder says, "and most people thought this was an isolated problem. Who knew what the real story was? Bill Browder has some problem with Putin – so what?"
    Reciting the story for the umpteenth time, Browder still makes it seem fresh and his anger still seems hot. But the reception he gets now is very different.

    Bill Browder's book has been on the New York Times best-seller list for six weeks, as readers devour his insights into Vladimir Putin's Russia. (Simon and Schuster)

    "Now, all of a sudden, everything that I've been saying is affecting the world more broadly. Putin has invaded Ukraine; he's shot down 298 innocent people on [Malaysia Airlines Flight] MH 17; Boris Nemtsov was murdered right in front of the Kremlin. All of a sudden, what we're seeing is that this is a bad guy who's gonna cause a lot of problems for everybody."

    Or maybe it will all come to a crashing end. Now that he's unmasked as a thug, Putin is increasingly at risk, according to Browder.

    "Putin is a very scared man," he says. "He's stolen a lot of money over the last 14 years — and then he saw a similar kleptocrat, Viktor Yanukovich, the president of Ukraine, be run out of the country by his own people for doing the same thing."
    Approval ratings 'complete nonsense'
    Could Putin suffer the same fate? Browder thinks it's possible, despite – and maybe because of – Putin's aggression in Ukraine. That brought soaring approval ratings, but also Western sanctions – creating an economic crisis which, Browder hopes, could sweep Putin away.

    "He's on thin ice in the sense that anything could happen that might set the Russian people off ... The approval ratings are complete nonsense. If you're living in Russia and someone calls you up on the phone and says, 'Do you support the president or not?' of course, you're not gonna say no, because you get into trouble if you say no. So you'll say, yes."

    A photo of Bill Browder's lawyer, Sergei Magnitsky, is held by his mother, Nataliya Magnitskayam during an interview in Moscow in 2009. A court found him guilty of tax evasion, concluding an unusual posthumous trial after he mysteriously died in prison. (Alexander Zemlianichenko/Associated Press)

    Nor does Browder think Western fecklessness in the face of aggression will save Putin. Although he believes "the Obama administration is doing everything possible not to upset the Russians," he thinks Putin is now riding a tiger from which he cannot dismount.

    "I don't think Putin is going to give the Western appeasement crowd the opportunity to fully appease him, because Putin is under such pressure to keep on escalating, from his own domestic audience, that he's not going to give the Europeans, for example, any option but to carry on doing the sanctions."

    And, as he escalates throughout the old Soviet empire, Browder predicts that the game, eventually, will be up.
    "His plan is to stir up the pot of nationalism, to get everybody in a nationalistic frenzy. Russia for Russians! We need to protect our Russian brothers and sisters in foreign countries! This is the Russian empire! This is what he's selling to the Russian people. And it will work up until the point where people say, wait a minute, why are our young men dying in wars and why are we suffering and hungry at the table? ... And there's no amount of propaganda that overcomes physical hunger."

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bil...o-the-black-heart-of-putin-s-russia-1.3010521


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Browder
     
  20. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, I've been making noises about it for a long time too. Like I've said, there were those mysterious Russian apartment bombings right before the Chechen slaughter, then Putin was passing intelligence on to Saddam Hussein right before the 2003 US invasion as if it was supposed to be constructive, and the same for Iran and Hezbollah ever since. Plus they love selling weapons to people whose only practical use for them is to attack the US and its allies. US needs to wake the fuck up.
     
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Just a quick thought,
    One wonders what Putin will do if and when his nation is struck by a major climate change event and he needs international support to help with event and post event catastrophe?
    I wonder what the world will do in the event of a distress call from Putin?
    Will it go to his aid or sit back and dare I suggest "giggle" and think.. "nah ... been there done that!" ( post cold war 1986ish)
    May be it is something Putin and more importantly the Russian population need to seriously consider.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Here's an interesting take on global Humanitarian aid for 2013
    Speaks volumes IMO

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    src: http://www.globalhumanitarianassistance.org/country-profiles
    And I notice that Russia appears (according to my brief research) to not have had to deal with any significant climate change events so far.
    (press censorship? or just lucky?)
    Ain't that weird!
    So ... what's with Russia?
    Will Russia benefit from AGW and climate change?
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    The state of Russia:

    Two out of three Russians die drunk. Apparently the only way Russia can deal with its declining population is by invading its weaker and smaller neighbors. Only 30% of Russian babies are born healthy. Half of Russian conscripts are placed on limited duty for health reasons, 25% of Russian males die before the age of 55 because of alcoholism and related diseases.

    "According to Murray Feshbach, a Georgetown professor emeritus and the dean of Russian demography in the United States, Russia’s working-age population is also declining by a million people a year, a faster rate than the decline of the overall population, which in 2013 stood at around 143 million, 3 million less than when Putin took office. Moreover, only 30 percent of Russian babies born are born healthy. Eberstadt told me that many unhealthy Russian babies are “discarded” —sent to government institutions where they often develop cognitive difficulties. Unhealthy children grow up to be unhealthy adults: half of the conscripted Russian army has to be put in limited service because of poor health.

    Twenty-five percent of Russian men still die before the age of 55, many from alcoholism and the violent deaths, plus other diseases it fosters. A protégé of Feshbach’s, Mark Lawrence Schrad, has recently published a book called Vodka Politics,which analyzes how vodka has been used throughout Russian history, from tsars to dictators, as a means of social control. Cheap vodka and cigarettes were among the first free-market products available after Communism. When a partial government crackdown regulating sales of alcohol in 2009 occurred and vodka’s price went up, some hard-core alcoholics simply switched to perfume or antifreeze. The government also jacked up prices on beer, often imported or owned by foreigners, and further drove the population to harder stuff. Schrad, a political scientist at Villanova, has also written that 77 percent of kids between the ages of 15 and 17 drink vodka regularly; in rural areas, the percentage can be as high as 90.

    Russia, meanwhile, has more heroin addicts than any other country. To become truly grossed out, one only has to go to the Web to see the damage of krokodil, a homemade opiate that heroin addicts in Russia shoot that rots their skin and organs from within. A thriving needle culture inevitably means H.I.V., and between 2000 and 2012 the number of new cases of H.I.V. increased six fold. Many of those infected also suffer from tuberculosis. Russia is second only to India (with 1.3 billion people) in the number of cases of M.D.R. (multidrug-resistant) tuberculosis.

    When it comes to the environment, I found that 50 percent of Russia’s water is not potable. Air pollution continues to be an extremely serious issue, suggesting that a solution proposed during the late-Soviet period continues to hold sway. Back then, a Russian health minister advised the country to “breathe less” in order to live longer.

    This is the kind of desperation that Vladimir Putin is distracting the Russian people from. During the 2000 campaign he flew to the scene of the uprising in Chechnya and promised to “ice them while they’re shitting in the outhouse.” Doing the math today, you can see that Russia remains frozen in time—and its leaders free to hallucinate. http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2014/03/numbers-vladimir-putin-doesnt-want-you-to-see

    Among other reasons, Putin needs to invade and annex his smaller neighbors to mitigate declining Russian demographics.
     

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