Eunuchs and Native Americans - A Myth or Fact?

It would be interesting if a dermatologist was on the forum to give some insignt on this.

I'm sure they would know something.

 

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Ok i'll stop posting... Go ahead man. Discuss whatever you want.


I'm done on this subject as i will just get criticized over something said regardless. I'll just quit the forum bye

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All the best.

 

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Damn. About time! Thanks. You have a nice life too..

 

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I noted your earlier racist insult, wasn't sure who you were directing those at ("pasty white man") or if it was more just a blanket dis of the whole site membership so I let it pass. Guess I just spend more time with Natives than you do and am thus more familiar with their preferences. I note that you started this thread but don't seem to care much for the responses you got. Whatever, glad to see you leave, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

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It is my understanding that castration of an adult male does not prevent sexual function.

I think I read somewhere that harem guards were castrated to make sure that all offspring of the women were sired by the Caliph or other owner of the harem.

I also think that the eunuchs were expected to have sex with the women, with the intent being to avoid their looking for fertile men as sexual partners.

 

I think that is mostly correct, but note that Eunuchs are hormonally more like women than males. And they seem to get the extra years of life expectancy characteristic of women too.

 

My testosterone has been hovering around 2.5 ng/dl for 2 & 1/2 years now (Eligard injections). I have no interest in or capability for sexual activity of any kind. Direct stimulation just feels funny. Literally.

It would be very much a 'mind over matter' scenario for a eunuch to be able to perform sexually and would most likely not work out well for either party. I know that it must be very hard for anyone who has not been castrated to really understand how someone could just not care about sex at all or be interested in sex the slightest, but that is how it is. It just isn't there at all. Not even first base. No interest at all. This has been a very interesting journey thus far, though it will be just fine when it ends and I get back to some kind of normal.....

 

I used Goserelin for about 6 months. Like Eligard, it works indirectly to reduce Testosterone production by the testicles. IE the direct action is on the pituitary gland, the body's "queen gland." That gland does many regulating actions, including production of LHRH that signals the testicles to produce testosterone. It is expensive, but not as expensive as Eligard, and prescribed more in Brazil, probably for this reason. It comes in one month doses (and in theory in three month doses, but I could not find them, so got monthly injections). It knocked my T down to about 11ng/dl. Neither suppresses the production of T by the adrenal glands.

A whole body cat scan reveled a small tumor on my left kidney, which was removed on 2 April 2014. I did not like chemically "messing around" with the pituitary gland - AFAIK, there may be long term complications, in addition to the short term side effects; so I switched to the "real thing" from "chemical castration" during that operation. Also I did not like the cost or going to the USP clinic each month to get my injections.

I fell fixing Christmas lights in late December 2014, and smashed my wrist into steel frame of a chair before hitting the floor. Significant pain and swelling produced there. I took at least six 325mg aspirin during the next two or three days. About a week later, in the shower, noticed the water was turning red. - A bleeding ulcer, that 62 pills twice daily of omeprazol, 40mg healed. For that month I also stopped my "therapeutic diet" as feared the very hot red peppers part of it might interfere with the healing of stomach wall. This unintentional provided the third strong "Dose Effect" data. IE without my diet supplement my PSA climbed from 0.10 to 0.61mg/dl, even though this last measurement was made more than a month after resuming the diet.

About a month ago, I went back on Androcur, (Bayer's trade name for acetate of ciproterona*) which not only lowers T from the testicles but from the adrenal glands as well. It is cheaper, and now free to me for a year as I agreed to be part of a research test. Androcur is widely used around the world, but not in the USA. - I think at least in part as the profit margin on it is much less than on the T suppression drugs that are available there. I used it for 3.5 years starting in mid 2009 with an intermittent use schedule (went back on it when my PSA was approaching 0.1). I could measure and thus track my PSA for free, here in Brazil. So after PSA had climbed from "undetectable" to above 0.07mg/dl, I measured it every couple of weeks. I believe this is why it took 3.5 years to lose effectiveness, instead of the more typical < 2.5 years.

I have been told by my urologist that it should again be effective, after nearly 3 years without use. I anxiously await the PSA (and T) data I will get soon after 28Aug15 when I will have blood taken for these measurements. If my PSA is not less than the 0.61 of last measurement, I will be struggling against depression. Only thing left for me to try is the new and very expensive drug ZYTIGA which cost about 1000 dollars per month. It works inside the prostate cancer cell, that have "learned" how to make their own T, or some closely related compound, so they don't need any external source of testosterone to multiply.

I don't know, but guess, your Eligard, also costs about 1000 dollars per month. Is that correct?

* English spelling may be slightly different - that is it in Portuguese.)

 

Yes. It runs about $6000 per 6 month shot so it is indeed about $1000/month. (Sorry for the delay, I went mountain climbing in New York with my family for a while

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) You are correct as to the shut down of the pituitary gland too. Since it cannot produce human growth hormone while shut down, I cannot grow new muscle, have gained 10 pounds of belly fat, and have experienced mental slowdown & memory problems due to that lack as HGH is needed by the brain to do routine housekeeping and cleanup.

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While annoying, it is standard procedure here in the US. The chemo enhances the efficacy of the radiation treatments as well, so the docs wanted me on that before they started my ~80 Grey total over 40 sessions radiation treatments. I am aware that there is a very small chance that my pituitary gland may not come back on line, am keeping my fingers crossed as I am only about 4 months past the 'dotted line' on the Eligard's effects. Blood test in July showed both testosterone and PSA were undetectable, the next one is in October. Since the life span of a Gleason grade 3 or 4 (mine was a Gleason 7(4+3) with no tertiary) acinar adenocarcinoma stem cell is about 3 years, hopefully they will all have died before it wears off completely. I had no metastases detected (Yeah, I know there can still be micros that went undetected) so the hope is that surgery, chemo and radiation have killed it all off.

A major concern is PCA going refractory as yours has. In that case, many of us go to Zytiga and/or another similar chemo.

 

I did not know that. I thought the action on the pituitary was more specific. That these drugs: Leuprolide (Lupron, Viadur, Eligard ) Goserelin (Zoladex) Triptorelin (Trelstar) Histrelin (Vantas) all are antagonist to pituitary production of LHRN, which normally stimulate pituitary's production of FSH & LH. Then, without FSH & LH from the pituitary, the testacies cease making testosterone. If you are correct, I am even glader I decided to get the "real thing" instead of "chemical castration" via "messing around" with my pituitary gland. It is a very important gland, controlling many others.

I have not had any radiation therapy and think it may be of little use unless some focus of my cancer exist but need to read more literature. What does "~80 Grey" mean?

My T is well suppressed (< 10 mg/dL the detection limit here.) now that I am back on Androcur, which suppresses adrenal T also. Unfrotunately my PSA, while low is climbing. Was: 0.28 (on D= 2268); 0.44 (on D= 2324); 0.61 (on D= 2380); and 1.00 ng/mL (on D= 2450, or 28/08/15) where D is number of days since my prostate was removed. These five measurements span an interval half a year (182 days 2450 - 2268). When plotted, the PSA curve is turning more towards the vertical - is growing faster than linear. It seems that more prostate cells in my body (circulating in the blood?) are developing the ability to produce PSA, without a significant external supply of testosterone.

I have meeting scheduled with my urologist in two days (on 4/9/15) I'll hear what he suggest, but think it may be wise to get again a T99 isotopic whole body scan to see if there is some detectable metastases site, which could get radiation therapy. Perhaps I need to start with ZYTIGA (or such drug that interferes with prostate cell's ability to "produce its own testosterone (or similar) compound, when little is externally available to it.

Good luck - It would be great if you therapy does cure you with no permanent damage.

 

Thanks, and the same to you.

I was fortunate that (at least it appears so) my advanced PCa was localized, thus the combination of treatments. If they were successful I will be happy indeed. If not, then I will need to do more. Hopefully later rather than sooner. The doctors each have a slightly different estimate of my chances, but I have been very responsive to the ADT chemo thus far. The external beam radiation was directed at both the positive margins around the prostate bed and my internal pelvic lymph nodes. The radiation treatments were about 2 Gray a session. Gray is the 'new' way of stating the dosage...

 

Mine seemed to be localized too - part of why I wanted the prostate out, instead of one of the alternatives. I. e. only 4 of 12 biopsy samples, on right side, had signs of cancer. The standard adjacent tissue and lymph nodes were removed with it and they showed no sign of cancer. So I was expecting to be cured by its removal. I wonder if a few cancer cells fell out of the tiny tube that punctured the prostate during the biopsy to take the 12 samples. I am told that does not happen but don't see why a few could not have gotten into my blood. - There was significant, but not atypical, bleeding made by the biopsy.

My PSA is low, (1.0mg/mL) but climbing faster than linearly. I seem to remember yours got quite high (30 ?) I am a few months short of seven years from the prostate removal. How long have you been treated? What rate did your PSA decline to "undetectable" with Eligard and or other things that were successful?

 

(I have included some terms and details for other folks who may read this besides you and I in order to be more informative for the uninitiate.)

My PSA went up to 4.5 a few years ago so I went in for a sonogram and biopsy (if indicated). While the urologist spent an inordinate amount of time at looking, he saw nothing that warranted the biopsy (he had an intern with him for observation so the session ran very long). A few years later it went up to 7.5 and I did a repeat with the same urologist. While painful again, he found nothing worth sampling. In 2012 my PSA went to 11.1 at which point my Internist again suggested I go see the urologist. I balked, told him that the guy he had been sending me to hurt me, was a smart - ass and had done nothing but jam his probe up my arse. My doc sent me to another urologist. I flunked the Digital Rectal Exam (DRE), he found "a bump". That, combined with my high PSA and reduced urine flow (I thought it was just part of getting older

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), sent me in for a serious biopsy. I told the urologist that I could not handle the pain, he said no problem and they knocked me out good with propofol in the surgical suite. (I am in the 1/2 of the population that don't get the associated euphoria

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, ) 12 of 12 cores had acinar adenocarcinoma. I went in for the scans, MRI etc. They found 2 extraprostatic extensions but no metastases. (Also a great amount of arthritis) I got Da Vinci robot - assisted laproscopic radical prostatectomy on Dec 27 2012. I had 1 seminal vesicle involved, they did a pathology check on a piece of my colon and several lymph nodes while I was still on the surgery table. While there was lymph node "exposure" the cancer had not actually spread to the nodes or the colon. There was perinueral invasion and a significant amount of nerves were removed. I had some positive margins

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. 2 weeks after surgery my PSA was 0.2 so I started Androgen Deprivation Therapy (ADT) chemo with Firmagon as there is no testosterone 'flare' with that. After 3 - 30 day Firmagon shots in the belly muscle I switched to Lupron and started Intensity Moderated External Beam Radiation Therapy (IMRT or EBRT). I then switched to Eligard for the rest of the chemo. Last 6 month shot of that was Oct 2014, the 'dotted line' for that shot was April 30th this year when my PSA was less than 0.03 ng/dl (nanograms per deciliter), undetectable by the test the lab uses, and my testosterone was 2.5 ng/dl . Next blood draw is this coming October.

The surgeons used the "nerve sparing" technique of the Da Vinci setup as best they could considering the circumstances, but that procedure often leaves some microscopic cancerous tissue behind. I had Gleason grade 3 cells which are round and fat, mostly just sit there and reproduce, also Gleason grade 4 cells which are more long, ragged and lean but cannot reproduce as well as the 3's. The grade 4's can move around pretty well, would like to get into the blood or lymph system, go to a distant part of your body, stop, grab hold of something, change state, get round and fat and reproduce. It was explained to me that both need testosterone to do their thing. If there is no T, the fat ones cannot grow, reproduce or change to the other type of cancer stem cell and the mobile cancer stem cells cannot grab hold, settle down and reproduce. If these are all well contained in the original prostate area (localized) then they hit them with the radiation which increases the oxidant levels in all of the irradiated cells. Since cancer cells have fewer mitochondria than normal cells they are much less able to defend themselves from the radiation-induced oxidants. This weakens them if it doesn't kill them outright, thus shortening their life span from the normal 3 year average. This treatment is made to be very much more effective if done soon after recovery from the Radical Prostatectomy (when you have quit leaking urine) and during ADT chemo. Then it is termed "Adjuvant Radiation Therapy" rather than "Salvage Radiation Therapy". Again, the thought here is to hit the cancer hard, then hit it again hard, then hit it again hard and long in the hope of - at the very least - a long term remission and a good chance of a "cure".

My Urologist says there is about a 20% chance of the cancer eventually returning after all of this, but the Radiation Oncologist stated/claimed a 96% "cure" rate (5 years with no rise in PSA from nadir) with the IMRT. They specifically target the positive margins noted on the surgical pathology report as well as the internal pelvic lymph nodes as those are usually the first to be exposed to the cancer and the first to turn cancerous.

I use a technique similar to the needle - core method to remove pieces of stone from a block with a core drill. There is very little spillage, though that is indeed possible. A few cancer cells could have remained after the surgery as well, as in my case. It is impossible with current technology for the surgeon to see every last microscopic cancer cell to remove, especially if he is trying to maintain some measure of lifestyle normalcy for the patient. I am pretty certain that there were a few stray cancer cells left on what remained of my prostatic nerve bundles after surgery due to the "nerve sparing" aspect of same. Hopefully the radiation has killed them off (and not the remaining nerves) if so. If not, I will be on to the next treatment.

Pretty much every day now there are new advances being made in the battle against cancer. Much of what we do for that these days appears to be 'kicking the can down the road' - try to keep the patient alive long enough for new therapies to come along that can deal with the cancer. "Palliative" care.....and a decent life experience.

 

Thanks for the details. It seems you were in a more advanced state than I was when your prostate was removed, so surely the radiation therapy was a good idea.
I am participating in research study that provides me with free ADT drug Androcur, for a year. So ever since castration on 2/4/13 and for a few months more in all probability, I have had zero drug expense. I gave the people running this experiment access to my clinical records, but my folder is more than a inch thick, so I made the brief summary below for them.

Brief Prostate / PSA history:
12/12/08 (Day D = 0) at age 76 (+18 days) Horacio C. did a radical prostatectomy after 4 of 12 biopsy samples (taken on 06/11/2008) showed Gleason
scores of 7,7,7,& 8. Earlier (on 11/08/2008) when PSA was 4.2 (Highest ever, and rapidly increasing.) After biopsy results were known* until the
prostatectomy, 50 mg twice daily of T-drug (Androcur or cyproterone acetate) was taken. Then nothing was taken for nine months,
but PSAs was measured at ~3 month intervals. Values were: <0.04 (detection limit); 0.1; & 0.8 ng/mL. (Doubling each month!)
When the 0.8 was known, (on D= 292) T-drug use began as follows:

100mg Pills used: (72Pills in 36 days, 55.5P in 37days, 26P in 26d, 16.5P in 22d, 8P in 16d, 4P in 20d – a total of 182 Pills in 157 days).
A therapeutic diet, or “T-diet,” developed with >40 hours of literature search at PubMed was in use by D= 300, but evolved to four items.

This was the first of six “on T-drug cycles.” The last of its T-drug use days was D= 448. Then on D=449 thru D=560, no T-drug or T-diet was
taken. This made a “Cure Test” but it failed as PSA climbed to 0.07ng/ml (with T= 447mg/dL). So a second T-drug use cycle began on D= 561
and ended on D= 681. It began with 40 pills taken in 20 days, and tapered down to only 10P taken in last 20 days as maker recommends.

The T-drug cycles 3 thru 6 all had 200mg /day taken and abruptly ended (no taper off). Cycle 3 used 68 pills; Cycle 4 used 64 pills;
Cycle 5 used 50 pills, which was too few as next “off T-drug” part of cycle 5 began with PSA = 0.04ng/mL. So 70 pills were used to start
T-drug cycles 6 & 7; however, the “off T-drug” part of these two cycles, also started with PSA= 0.04ng/mL, not~0.02ng/mL, which began
off T-drug part of prior cycles.

Cycle 7 was not ended as PSA approached, 0.1 ng/mL as was always done with prior cycles. - There was little point in resuming this T-drug.
IE, this T-drug was losing effectiveness, but intermittent use seemed to make its effective period a year longer than the two year normal.
Last cycle 7 measured PSA was 0.14 (on D=1344 or 17/08/2012)

Then 3.8 mg of Zoladex was injected monthly, 5 times, always on a Friday (with PSA & T measured early in the following week).Zoladex
held Testosterone, T, to 22mg/dL or less, except when an injection was made 52 days after the prior one. That let T climb to 167mg/dL
(but with PSA only 0.08ng/mL). This “chemical castration” was replaced by real castration on 02/04/13. Four post castration PSA
measurements (in 21 months) had PSA slowly increasing to 0.18 ng/mL on D= 2212 (or 2/1/15) but PSA increased to 0.25ng/mL
on D= 2240 (or 30/01/15) only 28 days later. This rapid PSA increase was due to fact my T-diet was stopped while treating
a bleeding ulcer, discovered on 30/12/2014 and this again confirms the T-diet's “does effect”, observed twice earlier.
(When T-diet switched from once to twice daily and then later to three times daily and stronger with each meal.)

Unfortunately, the PSA rise continues even after T-diet was resumed. PSA was: 0.28 on D= 2268; was 0.44 on D= 2324;
was 0.61 on D= 2380 (19/06/2015). So use of T-drug Androcur was resumed on 25/07/15. Despite this my PSA climbed to
1.00 ng/mL on 28/08/2015. A PSA vs. time curve, shows the 5 most recent points accelerating to higher PSA values despite
T < detection level. This implies ever more cancerous cells can now produce PSA without any external Testosterone source.
Perhaps only expensive new drugs, which block the internal production of T (or similar compounds) may offer help now.

* About a month after the 0.8 PSA was known, I had a T99 whole body isotope scan. It indicated only slight arthritis, but no location of cancerous activity. I probably will get that done again soon, if my PSA continues to climb, while on my T-diet and with T < detection levels. I want to wait until I have more data on the PSA vs. time curve. If it is still accelerating to higher values, I'll probably try one of the new drugs I discuss in next post - See if it can get PSA controlled.

PS The width of paragraphs (but not this footnote) decreased as their text was pasted over the graph paper showing the acceleration of PSA values. IE curve was relatively flat but then curved upward to the right of the last text paragraph.

 

The questions in last paragraph (before footnote) are mainly ones I will ask my Urologist tomorrow, but if you or anyone has opinions on them please post. I'll also ask him about if and when to make 2nd T99 whole body scan (or other type scan).

Prostate cancer cells themselves can make small amounts of androgens, which allows the cancer cell to grow and produce PSA, even with little or no external testosterone. - A castrated male with the adrenal source suppressed by Androcur. New forms of hormone therapy have been developed in recent years. Some of these may be helpful even if standard forms of hormone therapy are no longer working.

When androgens (Testosterone, etc.) bind to the androgen receptor on cell's surface, the receptor sends a signal to the cell’s control center, telling it to grow and divide. Enzalutamide (Trade name = Xtandi) blocks this signal. In men with castrate-resistant prostate cancer, enzalutamide can lower PSA levels, slow the growth of tumors, and help the men live longer. Enzalutamide is taken as pills each day.

Abiraterone (Trade name = Zytiga) blocks an enzyme called CYP17, which helps stop these prostate cells from making androgens internally. I. e. without or significantly reduced CYP17 inside the cancer cell, it's internal production of androgen is suppressed.

Both are quite expensive. Can either be used intermittently? Say with a 50% on drug duty cycle? For example use drug for two months and see if the current slowly accelerating upward PSA curve of last half year turns downward or at least the rate of PSA increase is slowed? One might use one of these new drugs for X weeks then go “off drug” for Y weeks, but continuously used Androcur and the TD (“Therapeutic Diet,”) I developed via extensive literature search at PubMed. This TD has shown clear “dose effect” three times now.*
- - - - - - - -
* Androcur was used intermittently with success for nearly three years. (Normally in continuous use it fails in two or so years.) Twice during the “off drug” intervals, the daily dose was doubled and the monitored rate of climb** of PSA was decreased. In one case (the second doubling of the TD amount taken daily) the PSA level (not just the rate of increase) deceased while no Androcur was being used.
** I resumed use of Androcur as PSA approached 0.1ng/mL.

 

I have read mention of both Xtandi and Zytiga in cases that were not handled with the first round treatments. There is also a new imaging test that some of the guys have been talking about that is supposed to show smaller metastases. I believe that the current test can only image metastases down to about 4 mm in diameter.

Was your Gleason 8 a (4+4) or a (5+3)? I assume the G7 was (4+3) or (3+4)? The G5 PCa cells are very nasty indeed, also hard to kill. Did they give you a tertiary G type as well? Micro - metastases are, unfortunately, not uncommon. Many of us 'survivors' deal with those sooner or later. Once again, it is very hard to remove every single little scrap of cancerous tissue without a microscope if the cancer has left the capsule at all.

Yes, it was made very clear to me that - in my medical team's opinion - We had a good shot at a "cure" (5 years with no rise in PSA) with the aggressive treatment I received. This was due to my extremely robust state of health and their belief that the cancer was still localized. It was (in the surgeons words) "sticky", thus the (during surgery) biopsy of a 3 cm diameter circle of my colon tissue where the tumor 'kissed' the outer wall of same. Since the tumor proper had extra-capsular extensions in the upper right and lower left quadrant, it was indeed looking for new territory to colonize. The positive margins concern me quite a lot and made it very much easier to go along with the more serious treatments they proffered. It is my understanding that the positive margins themselves were targeted with the radiation treatments. Gratefully, my nerves heal much better than most persons do. I have unfortunately tested this when I was younger.

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Hopefully that will help me keep some of the healthy nerves that remain.

At this juncture I must admit that I delayed follow-up on the last PSA of 11.1 partially due to the recent US govt panel's recommendation that men not be tested for PSA any more. Unfortunately that was simply not true in my case and I would not suggest that any other man take that panel's advice seriously. I don't know whether or not a couple of months earlier intercession would have profited me, but I am glad that I got the PSA tests and that I followed up as I did when indicated.

I have always been very active, this year I returned to my full 7 miles a day/50 miles a week run, still lift weights and practice Taekwondo daily. Also Zen mindfulness & meditation practices, an extremely healthy diet (lots of fresh fruit, vegetables, whole grains, olive oil...very much Mediterranean style, with fish, chicken, turkey and some lean red meat in moderation). Also take a bunch of supplements like curcumin/turmeric, pomegranate extract etc. I have tried very hard to place myself in as statistically advantaged a position as I can realistically achieve. It only logical.

Our insurance has paid the most part of the cost, somewhere around $150,000 US so far. The copay has been about $6000/year out of pocket. I am about to go on Medicare then (mandatory government health insurance) with a 'supplemental' or "gap" insurance. This just before the next round of tests and office visits so there will continue to be uncertainty there as well.

 

My prostate biopsy report is a page and half long in Portuguese and I don't understand parts of it. To quickly answer: Three Gleasons were (4+3) and one was (4+4).
Twelve prostate punctures* thur intestine wall samples were taken and all four with Gleason score came from the right side. Sides are subdivided (top, middle & bottom) and each of these has two samples extracted (always designated: 1 or 2). Most samples were about 1.5cm long but one from left side was only 1.0cm long. I bet end part of it fell out of the tiny tube, but it came from middle left side and (translating freely) "had no bad morphological indications" so even if 0.5cm was left free inside me, it did not cause of my current PSA problem.
Two left samples had <5%, small atpical "acinos" (but the a needs an accent mark). I think this is a comment that something was irregular in the duct from cell.
Two left samples had "Neoplasia intraepithelial prostatisa" (the 1st a of last word needs an accent mark). I think this is telling that some normal prostate cells are invading the "skin" of the prostate. IE my prostate was getting slightly "bumpy" on this part of the surface, but not with any cancer there.
One had chronic inflammation. (It with the one only 1cm long, make up the six from left side.)

The three right side samples with Gleason total 7 had cancerous cells "acometimento" (attacking I think) 80%, 90% & 40% of the sample; but the cancer cell fraction were much smaller, I am almost sure. Also auxiliary tissue, including some Lymph notes were removed and pathology was done on them too - not a sign of cancer in that material was seen. A total of 43 grams were removed.
The sample with Gleason 8 had two "fragments" (0.3 & 1.2cm long) Both had cancerous cells "acometimento" 90% of the fragments.
The other two right side samples: One "nothing bad" & other had <5%, small atpical "acinos"

In several cases the samples were "fragments" (3 samples had three fragments; 4 had two fragments and 5 were continuous or one fragment)

* Unlike your biopsy case I had little pain - wasp stings are much worse. The MD (or technician?) extracting samples warned me the first time just before pulling the trigger of the spring loaded gun that thrust the tiny collection tube, deep into the prostate when he had its tip aligned and positioned where he wanted it (guided by continuous ultra sound imaging). I told him to stop giving that warning - just do it when ready, and then it hardly hurt at all. He must have applied some local anesthesia inside my descending colon end as I did not feel him punch thru the intestine wall. Perhaps he only did that once or twice?

 

Perhaps Fraggle with his extensive language knowledge, will review my guesses above about what a few Portuguese words mean. In several cases my Portuguese dictionary does not have any exactly matching word. Probably I need a medical dictionary, but quite similar words are given.

Also I think it would be wise if James R or some one were to pull your and my posts out into a new thread. Perhaps called: "Advanced Prostate Cancer Facts (CRPC)" Technically I am a real Eunuch and you are a "chemical eunuch." The current title invites a strange mix of posts.

 

I agree, though strange posts occur here pretty often anyways....

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My perinueral invasion was called "neoplastic perinueral invasion" so I figured that the "neoplastic" meant the acinar adenocarcinoma was the offending party. From that I would guess that your acinar cancer had bored into the prostatic epithelium on its way out of the capsule proper. During my biopsy, the urologist wanted to see if the cancer had advanced into my bladder and urethra so he sent a camera up my urethra (while I was unconscious) too check on that. There was none, but the pain and bleeding were mostly from that part of the biopsy. We are both in the Gleason 4 club then, it is good that there were no G5 cells in the biopsy, though as you and I both well know, the G4's are quite bad enough to contend with.

When I asked for a copy of the paperwork the urologist's office gave me a set of fairly simple forms. I am sure the doctor has a much more complete and detailed analysis. I will likely ask him for more detailed information if that is available when I go in for an office visit next month after the blood draw. I am informed that the carry-over from 2 & 1/2 years of ADT chemo can be 3 - 6 months or more up to about a year. This next month it will be a year, last April it was still effective and it feels like it is still acting in full force.

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Yes, we are both indeed neutered, though I am hoping for return to normalcy of some kind eventually.......