The problem of defining the Bible's moral concepts

Discussion in 'Religion' started by ostanes, Jul 17, 2015.

  1. ostanes Registered Member

    Messages:
    6
    hi

    Bertrand Russell: When the law intervenes to remove obscene publications, they are canceled at the same time, and in a large quantity, significantly desirable things.

    A few years ago they were mailed some pictures of a prominent Dutch artist to an English buyer.

    Officials destroyed the pictures, and the buyer did not get the slightest compensation.
    The law gives the post office the power to destroy everything that officials deem obscene (and its decision is unappealable)

    Is it possible to ascertain where lies the boundary between acceptable and obscene?
    I think that varies greatly from person to person, in the case of John Collier's pictures, for example.
     
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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    What is obscene has thruout history been a matter of the era in which it was displayed. When Manet painted his "Olympia" in 1865 and people could tell she was a prostitute, outrage ensued. Many wanted the painted burned. But a few appreciated Manet's honesty in displaying the female nude realistically. (see below)

    There was a time when displaying the nude buttocks on TV was unheard of. Now you can regularly see it on shows like "Naked and Afraid" and "Dating Naked".

    I remember my dad and mom marveling at the display of a man's penis in the movie "The Piano." Such was not something that they had been culturally prepared for.

    The definition of what is obscene is not freefloating and absolute. It is a matter of culture and societal mores, the Bible notwithstanding.

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    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
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  5. ostanes Registered Member

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    I suspect that the strict sexual morality of the New Testament have been motivated by the fact that at that time there was no contraception, and neither drugs for sexually transmitted diseases.

    But, if no other reason exist, why there are still lots of puritanical Christian religions such as the Mormons?

    Would it be moral if a talented artist publishes elegant photographs of open-minded young ladies staging some pictures of Collier?
    What if in some photographs, he start to caress their nipples visible through clothing?
     
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  7. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    .
    Obscene is all in the mind.

    .
     
  8. ostanes Registered Member

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    Do you think there are no boundaries?

    Not even in the case of autogynephilia, or zoophilia of very young girls, ages of 7, 8 years old?

    Definition from Oxford Dictionaries:

    Obscene:

    Definition of obscene in English:


    adjective


    1. (Of the p
    ortrayal or description of sexual matters) offensive or disgusting by accepted standards of morality and decency: obscene jokes
    1.1. Offending against moral principles; repugnant: using animals' skins for fur coats is obscene

    More example sentences:
    They had already beaten up and name-called other boys from his school, and subjected girls to obscene sexual innuendo.

    Football chants are cruel, obscene, offensive, sometimes downright sick and often very funny.

    Origin:

    Late 16th century: from French obscène or Latin obscaenus 'ill-omened or abominable'.

    Unfortunately, the dictionary doesn't illustrate with examples of what paraphilias/fetishism, etc, are considered obscene for the status quo of contemporary Western society.
     
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    It depends on context. Writing about such things in a literary sense is perfectly fine. Our standards of obscenity only apply when we talk about what sort of content should be allowed in the public sphere, outside of artistic expression, on TV for example. Many fine authors had to struggle with excessive censorship in their careers, such as William S. Burroughs.
     
  10. ostanes Registered Member

    Messages:
    6
    Good point.
    I used to collect magazines about plastic art, and I started to realize that some work is focused on the exploration of eroticism and sensuality, but often wrapped in a surreal or dreamlike, or metaphysical halo. Which generated me the feeling of being experiencing a dream; in which eroticism was almost imperceptible, but very intense at the same time, as it would be on another level, in a dreamlike plane, perhaps completely spiritual.

    I arrived at the conclusion that the complexity and variety of such stimuli could be a more powerful sexual stimulant that all the best magazines and pornographic videos together.

    Would you mention some graphic examples of real life?(if possible). It is quite difficult to understand eroticism intellectually, without them
     
  11. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    5,224
    And therein lies the rub. These boundaries are culturally constructed. Once you realise that all cultures are somewhat arbitrary, then you realise that all such boundaries are also somewhat arbitrary. So, in a real way, no there are no boundaries. Other than the ones we choose to make.
     
  12. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    What about if you are in a nudist camp . Would that be immoral ? I not get any erection every thing was very normal If I would get an erection would that be obscene ?
     
  13. ostanes Registered Member

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    6
    Could exist obscenity in the hypersexuality? In sexual deviance?

    Source: the free dictionary:
    par·a·phil·i·a
    (păr′ə-fĭl′ē-ə, -fēl′yə)
    n.
    A psychosexual disorder in which sexual gratification is obtained through practices or fantasies involving a bizarre, deviant, or highly unusual source of sexual arousal such as an animal or an object.

    My agnosticism doesn't neutralize my curiosity for the biblical exegesis.

    The Link Sex-Hell in The New Testament:

    "You have heard that it was said, 'you shall not commit adultery'; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart". "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.…

    Is it just an obsolete rule? If not, in which real life situations could be applied?

    Jesus is linking sex with hell. Could be some biblical explanation for this, beyond birth control? (and perhaps sexually transmitted diseases?)

    Is there any biblical reference linking the sexual prohibitions with birth control?
     

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