Pashley, UMMM accepting him is a task. It seems that statment contridicts it self. In order to get into heaven you must do some thing for god, accept his as your saviour. Which on the surface doesn't sound to bad, but when you come to see that it means becoming a slave you see it a bit diferent.
pashley, The basic premiss of the second question was to see if there are those that would think there is more than one way to Heaven. Second, It’s good to know that you are so well grounded. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! 6, You are a slave to something no matter what. Men scour the Earth for women, jobs, games, and status symbols that they can become a slave to. I am a proud slave of Christ. It’s the chains of love that bind me. On the surface, life without God seems good until you realize that all you can do is be run over by it. When it’s all said and done, not a one of us will be remembered by men. Only what God has preserved will last. You are correct in that the human is obligated to do something in trusting. It is a fact that faith that takes no action is dead. However, God is the one in control. He is the beginning and the end of the matter. He only allows us some space to move in the middle. You don’t have to choose His paths. Still, you are a slave to your own desires. You are trapped in endless non-fulfillment and the confusion of sin. You are a slave to the circumstance around you. They shape your emotions and account for the actions you will and will not make. For the child of God, no matter how ridiculous the directives may seem by the standards of man, if it’s from God, it will end only in a blessing. We have a master we can trust. We have a loving master that we lean on in comfort, are supported by in strength, rely upon for wisdom, and take pleasure in serving. Tell me what good your master has done for you. God does for His children what Alan Greenspan, Bill Clinton, The U.S. Constitution, and money could never do. He loves us with pure love and frees us to love Him and others as well. To all, I’ve seen several good responses. I’m producing a reply right now. Please, give me just a bit of time. A willing Slave To Christ!!!, ISDAMan [This message has been edited by ISDAMan (edited June 02, 2000).] [This message has been edited by ISDAMan (edited June 02, 2000).]
It is written that if we seek the truth through Jesus Christ with humility and sincerety in our hearts we will find it. It's just like a physical or natural law, but it's a spiritual law. In other words, it's guaranteed. Just like an apple is guaranteed to fall downward from a tree due to the physical law of gravity. So if you seek, you will know the truth. The truth that Jesus is who He says He is. If you truly believe this, and take the time to understand how to know Him (which is easy with an open and humble heart and pure intentions), you will know Him. So if you TRULY believe unto Him, then you will seek Him in your life, and seek His will in your life, and communicate with Him, and know Him. THAT is how you get to heaven. Basically, it all boils down to not ignoring the obvious. There are really only two choices in life, to worship God, or to worship ourselves. ------------------ You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.
Lori, Personally, I prefer to examine all sides of a question before reaching a conclusion. This is what is known as making an informed decision. However, the Christian way appears to be to only examine one side of a question (or to simply take it on faith). I could never live this way, and it astounds me that anyone can - and be perfectly happy with that! I recently ordered a book from amazon.com which I hope to receive and begin reading sometime this week. It is called, "The Gods of Eden", and I'm certain it will prove to be a fascinating read, and will help to make sense of ancient events as they've been recorded in history. I'll be sure to keep you posted. ------------------ www.indigenousrocks.com
Who said I didn't examine all sides? This has been a life-long quest for me at 33, and will continue to be a learning experience until the day I die. I have examined in depth many major sources of "spiritual truth". What I learned is that spiritual truth only comes from one source, and no, it's not a Christian minister, but Jesus Christ Himself. Let me put it this way, until you have a literal conversation with Jesus Christ Himself, you will never understand that it is possible to do so, and if you never open your mind to the possibility, you will never have the conversation. Or something like that. Let me ask you this.....have you honestly and sincerely and humbly sought a relationship with Jesus? If the answer to that question is no, then I would deduct that you are the one who has not examined all sides. Would that be a fair assessment? ------------------ You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.
Lori, Sorry, wrong again! From the time I was about 12 until I was in my mid-to-late 20's, I examined Christianity for whatever truths it might hold for me. I even attended a seminary for a year to study the New Testament. In fact, I would even venture to say that I gave Christianity a much fairer shake than any other religion so far! There was just too much that didn't make sense to me. And don't forget the fact that my mother and youngest sister are both born-again Christians who are constantly bombarding me with their religious beliefs. You can't even have a meal around them without being subjected to the Christian form of giving thanks. So yes, I've examined Christianity, and discarded it, thank you. ------------------ www.indigenousrocks.com
Searcher, AGAIN huh? Sorry. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! But I still don't know if you understand what I'm saying. When I was young, my grandma bombarded me as well to no avail. I read the Bible to no avail. I went to church to no avail. Preachers, ministers, prayer meetings, the works, no cigar. That stuff is NOT what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about actually KNOWING Jesus Christ Himself. Not just hearing every Tom Dick and Harry's opinion or interpretation of Him. He is real, and He's really available, and He really loves you, and He's really who He says He is. You can communicate with Him, and He will communicate right back. Have you done this? Do you know Him? Also, what didn't make sense to you? And, I'm not surprised that if you've been surrounded by overzealous Bible thumpers that you got turned off. I wish those Bible thumping judgement freaks would take a vacation every once in a while so somebody out there could actually get saved occasionally. ------------------ You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.
Lori, Whenever I knocked on Jesus' door, he didn't seem to be at home - and yes, I did knock a few times in my life. I wasn't going to stand outside and knock forever, though - time's up on this one. What doesn't make sense to me about Christianity is that there is only one path to salvation, and the penalty for not finding it, or not recognizing it if you do find it, is being condemned to burn in Hell for all of eternity. Nor does it make sense that one individual had to die an excruciating death so the rest of us can go to heaven. Something's wrong with this picture, big time! ------------------ www.indigenousrocks.com
I was listening to the radio today on my way home from work and they started playing that song that goes: It got me to thinking. What if I met God and he was just a guy in a t-shirt and blue jeans, wearing a tattered pair of Nikes? What if he moved mountains not by some funky omnipowerful ability to merely speak and make it so, but by rolling up his sleeves, grabbing a shovel, and digging away at it until, over the course of thousands of years, the mountain was moved? It's easy to create universes, planets, and life when you're all-powerful. But if he only had the limited powers and resources we have, what then? I think a good bit of my lack of worship is that he really didn't do anything special. I have no reason to worship him. Judging by the descriptions, he could create the universe during commercial breaks, therefore this job was nothing for him. As far as giving his only son, it was a sucker bet. God knew Jesus was going to heaven and that the physical pain would end, then Jesus would go to heaven and rule by his side. He and Jesus couldn't lose. But if God was one of us, and I saw that he built this planet not with deific powers but with his own two physical hands, if he had to work with the same limitations as we do, I might have a little more respect for him. At least I'd know for sure that he knows what it's like down here, and that it's not as easy as "Shape up down there." If he'd just get down here in the muck with us, if he had to take the bus from miracle to miracle, if God was one of us...I'd pick up a shovel and help. As it stands, I believe that the act of childbirth is harder labor than creating a universe with super-powers, and most children love their mothers more than they love God. Just a rambling little thought. ------------------ I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.
Hi Searcher, If I may I would like to try and help with our understanding a bit. You said: I'd like to go line by line here. Correct. His name is Jesus. No it doesn't does it, it doesn't make sense that He should have to wear all my iniquity, it doesn't make sense that He should bear my penalty does it? We are born into sin, it happens because of us being born under a curse, a curse we as mankind brought on ourselves. Your absolutely right Searcher it makes no sense whatsoever that God should send His son to die in our place. That He should suffer and excruciating death to ransom us from the wages of our own sins. Why would God do that? It makes no sense at all. Perhaps it has something to do with Gods grace? What also makes no sense is the fact that Jesus is not the only human to have ever been crucified or to ever have died a horrible and painful death. So to me it makes no sense that we as Christians make it sound that way. No mockery intended at all here, physically He died a death not much different than others who were cast alongside Him. But this is where it starts to make sense, although He died this death in the physical its what we didn't see and don't see that makes sense. The spiritual and eternal implications of what Jesus did were only glimpsed in the physical. Jesus had placed on Him as a sinless man all the eternal punishment that should have been ours, ours because we have sinned. Jesus was made perfect and walked perfect before His father God, and as a perfect man He took our spiritual bonds and paid them. In the spiritual realm there was a battle that went beyond imagination. On one side were legions of Gods holy angels. On the other side were legions of Lucifers fallen ones, who were visiting horror upon horror on the son of man. Lucifer and his hoards thought that they had Jesus and that they were destroying Jesus. Yes Satan though it made sense, destroy this man, destroy God's son, destroy him and remove him from the face of earth then drag him down into the pit of death. Satan had it all figured out, he held the keys of death because they were given to him by man at the fall. Satan would use that authority he had stolen and destroy this man, this the Son of God. Satan would inflict upon Him, Jesus, the most excruciating and intense spiritual attack in order to destroy Jesus and Satan knew that God the Father could only stand and watch because Satan had authority to do so. Satan had the authority because he held the keys of death and every man, even God's Son had to suffer deaths embrace. The devil was beside himself with glee, he thought that he would finally have Jesus bow down before him, he hade failed once when he tempted Jesus in the wilderness and offered Jesus the kingdoms of the earth if He would but bow before him. Now however there was no offer of the kingdoms of this world, now Satan would force Jesus to bow before him in death, or would he? Satan's plan and attack found there climax in Jesus cry, "My Father, My Father, why have you forsaken me?" A point where God had to turn His face away from the suffering of His precious, innocent son as the sins of this world, as the terror and torment of Satan's attacks, as the pain and anguish of a tortured physical death were visited upon Him in a moment of infinite intensity. And at that moment Gods holy angels were watching in anguish and terror as they saw the innocent lamb of God being attacked and killed, both physically and spiritually. They looked to the Father for the order to save, but no order came, how could it? For Satan was acting within the authority given him by mankind and for God to counter that would be paramount to God going against His own character and nature. This has never happened and never will. Yet God's holy angels stood ready to strike, ready to release their master, yet the Father told them to stand their ground and all they could do was to watch and trust in the Fathers words. To them, the holy angel's the events unfolding before their eye's made no sense either. The sinless lamb of God, Son of God, being laid bare, being made a stench before them and the Father with the sin of the world. This makes no sense? Satan was within his rights to carry this out yet they, the holy angels could not see why the Father would allow it. They could not see, they knew not that the final stroke was yet to be applied, they knew not, Satan knew not, mankind knew not, only the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit knew. For if any other had known what was to happen next, if Satan knew, if mankind knew then they surely would not have crucified the Son of God, they surely would not have killed an innocent man, God's only begotten son. Satan and his hoards bound and chained the spirit of Jesus and dragged Him to the bowel's of hell thinking that they were within their rights to do so. How wrong they were, for they had passed judgement which was reserved by God on an innocent man. Jesus had no sin, He had lived a holy and perfect life before the Father and neither Satan, death or any demon of hell had authority over that holiness. Jesus was inflicted by them not only because they were within their rights but because the Father allowed our sin to be placed onto Jesus as an eternal way of salvation. The only reason they had Jesus was because the Father planned it, the Son lived it and by the power of the Holy Spirit Jesus endured it. Because of the joy that was before Him Christ endured the cross, that joy being the way of salvation for mankind. As the holy and innocent lamb of God His sacrifice was acceptable to the Father as a sin offering for us all, and in that Holiness that was His Jesus took on death and hell, He broke the chains of death and destroyed the gates of hell and Jesus now holds the keys of death that He took from Satan and rightfully returned to the Father's authority. Satan though he had it all worked out, he thought it made perfect sense, his plan was almost perfect. Almost apart from the fact that God is all knowing and the perfect one, not Satan. Satan did not bank on the holiness of Jesus, Satan did not factor in that attribute when he decided to try and destroy Jesus. Satan though his plan made perfect sense, in his arrogance and pride, in his twisted wisdom and intelligence, in his trust of his own abilities Satan thought that he had out witted and out manoeuvred God. How wrong he was and now he is the one saying this makes no sense. God's plan of salvation is perfect, perfect in the death of Jesus and beyond that the resurrection and ascension of Jesus. Satan only saw as far as Jesus death, God saw beyond the cross of wood and saw the risen Son seated in majesty and glory at the right hand of the Father. When we look at it superficially it makes no sense, it makes no sense because we do not look at it through Gods eyes. We do not look at it through God's character and nature. We do not look beyond the death and into the life that exists at the right hand of the Father. Jesus did not die in vain. He did not die just so people could go to heaven. Jesus died to pay the price that was due by us, He died to ransom us, to redeem us, to restore us, to make us all that we can be and were created to be. Friends who walk with their creator in love. I understand why people do not recognise what Jesus has done, its not explained to them correctly and in love. Let me say to you Searcher that God has given us all the ability to understand the truth. But I also realise that Satan has created a stew of delusion to water down the truth, he had presented us all with a mish mash of ideas and alternatives to the truth and we like a bunch of stupid sheep have followed the crowd and eaten of this stew. Each and every one of us has been delude, each and everyone of us has allowed ourselves to be deceived in some way. I know this well for I am like you, I search for meaning, I search for understanding, I search for truth. But I have learnt that my search needs to go beyond myself, beyond what may appeal to me, Tony. My search has found me asking hard questions of myself and God, my search has shown me to look beyond the surface, beyond the fanciful sayings, beyond the sugar coated happy feelings and self service. It has driven me to cry out to know the Lord that I love and serve in a way that goes beyond my own understanding, beyond myself and right into the heart of my God. It is a very uncomfortable place at times because if you really want to know the truth then the truth shows up a lot of things in your own life. Searcher, God has and is and will continue to call out to you, call you to see who He is and who His Son is. Lori has told you this, she has asked that you put aside what man has said and go direct. Please do. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Lori, Great to see you back, how's that six week old behaving? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Tony, Wow again! I'll bet you're great behind a pulpit! I really mean that! Yes, Jesus was definitely one of my favorite characters in the Bible. But the thing is - being half God himself (or even God himself - depending on who's telling the story), and at least in direct communication with the Big Guy in the Sky, he had it much easier than us mere ignorant mortals in most ways (except for that gory torture/execution thing at the end - bummer). But how about Deborah (refer to Judges, Chapter 4)? Now there's someone I can really admire! She wasn't half Goddess, or anything like that to help her out - she was just a slob like one of us (thanks, Oxygen!). And she had to put up with attitudes about women that would be completely intolerable in today's world. But she overcame this handicap and served as a judge! Not only that, but she led an army into battle - and won! I'd love to read one of your nice long sermons about her - would you do that Tony? Would you tell us the story of Deborah, in your own spell-binding way - please? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ------------------ www.indigenousrocks.com
Lori, HI! How ya doing. It's nice to see you back. ISDAMan, I'm responding a bit late, but I wanted to think before I just let random thoughts fall out. I only brought up the point of being a slave, becuase most people forget that they allow them selves to be a slave to something. When we think about it's realy not being a slave when you chose it. You also assume that I am cunfused and that my way of life does not leave me felling fullfiled. How do you know this???? Do you live my life? Do you know my thoughts? I no longer see life like this. At one time maybe, but no longer. I do not have to just blindly react to circumstances around me . No one has to. Each and every one of us has the choice as to how we will react to it. Christianity and most other religons teach that there is only one right way to respond. They mostly play off of fear. I chose a different route, one of choice. For example the curcifition (SP?) of christ. The church teaches that this is strongest show of God's love for us (in other words telling you how to fell about it). I don't see it that way. I see it as teriable waste of life. You assume that I have a specific master. What I may chose to submit to today may change tomarrow. The freedom of choice, true free will. Anything you chose submit to will have it's benifits and draw backs. What I get form my way of life / religon is comfort and strength. A single person or small handfull people can't do everything for you. They even may not want to do anything to better your life. Tell me what has God done for betterment of mankind. I know you will you will most likely come back with what you belive he has done and how sin has ruined it. Lets look at the facts though. If he is all powerfull he sure isn't all inteligent for creating somthing that can be destroyed by somthing as small as sin. If he is all loving he would have never made anything that could ruin what he gave us or us. -666 [This message has been edited by 666 (edited June 06, 2000).]
Hi Searcher, If you do enjoy the "Gods of Eden", you might also want to try - Fingerprints of the Gods by Graham Hancock, Santha Faiia (Photographer) (Paperback - June 1996) Enjoy. Take care
Lori, Kinda horning in on your conversation with Searcher... I just wanted to remind you that I have also opened up the door for Jesus, but somehow he didn't accept my invitation. And please don't assume I had my eyes closed or wasn't TRUELY looking for the truth, because I was. I have NOT been bombarded with bible-thumping freak-o's, I have NOT been smothered by a overly religious family. I was allowed to form my own beliefs, and when I discovered I was "on to something" I lit a candle and invited anyone with the truth to come and visit me, I asked anyone, and yes, even mentioned Jesus by name in my mental invitation. What did I get? Not one God, but a God and a Goddess, a gentle and loving natural couple. Where was Jesus? Tending to his flock, I guess. Maybe I'm just not a sheep. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! And that's okay, I don't feel left out. I rather believe that each person is different, and will therefore find the divine in their own way. If I were to somehow meet Jesus today, I'd love to sit him down with a cup of tea and talk about healing, and responsibility, and whatever else was on our minds. Do I think he's the Son of God? Yeah, sure, of course. We are all sons and daughters of the Gods. Do I think he's the ONLY son of God? Heck no, that doesn't make any sense. And I'm not the only one that thinks that way. Check out this link: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Bridge/1009/Notstmnt.htm It basically demonstrates a lot of flaws in the New Testament as compared to the Old Testament. Check it out, Lori, I'm curious to see what you think of it. It really hits hard on the "trinity" idea, and how it's not even in the original version of the bible. I think it's all from a Jewish standpoint, but I think they're valid arguments anyway. Really, please take a look and let me know what you think. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Tony, ISDA, Pashley, any of the Christian Crowd we have here, I really do want to hear what you guys think. Please bear in mind that I am generally unfamilliar with the bible though, so if you can stick to "plain english" instead of bible quotes, that would help me a lot too. Namaste, ~MC
I did check it out. This is simply a Jewish person trying to play down the divinty of Christ through the use of alledgedly conflicting genealogy. The Jews also believe, I might add, that you can buy your way into heaven thru good works; and deny the divinity of Christ.That means if you can't do good works (say you are crippled, or mentally challenged), you are cooked. Never mind the other beliefs they hold. Just because this guy found some APPARENT conflicts, doesn't mean their are not explanations. For instance, regarding the demise of Judas. Matthew says Judas hanged himself, while Peter tells us he fell, and was crushed by the impact. Seems contradictory, right? Matthew does not say that Judas did not fall; neither does Peter say that Judas did not hang himself. A possible reconstruction could have been that Judas hung himself on a tree over a cliff. After hanging there some time, the rope broke or branch snapped, he fell, mangling his body. Maybe he was dead when it broke, maybe not. The Bible indicates that he did the hanging on a cliff that overlooked the valley on Hinnom, which does have several 25-40 foot cliffs with trees on the edge. So either story could be correct. Matthew say him hang. Peter may have seen his body on the rocks. The point is, this guy is trying to use APPRARENT contradictions to bash the New Testament. Yes, we are all children of God, but we do not share in the divinity that Christ had. We are NOT on the same level as him. That would be equating God to man. No sir! ------------------ "It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself." -Patrick Ashley
Hi 666! I'm feeling OK for the first time in a loooooooong time, thanks. How's your monkey honey? Does he need a spanking perhaps? Oxygen, I see that you listen to cheesey pop rock music, and I must say that I am extremely concerned for you. I think that we should start another thread, and try to help you see the light. Tee-hee-hee. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! And what is with this "I can only respect God if He's a human being like me" BS? Are you professing to be a bigot or what? Please explain. Tony, Hi ya, buddy. Hey, I'm still practicing. Hopefully I'll get it right before all my eggs shribble up. Searcher, Sorry it took so long...I've tried to respond before and got booted off-line by this idiotic software I'm using. Grrrrr....but, anyhoo... About the "only one path" contention...the way I see it is in terms of absolute vs relative truth. When I look at what I KNOW to be true about the universe, through our history, our science, and through my and our own life struggles, relative truth is IMPOSSIBLE. I guess what I'm saying is....you would have to agree that regardless of WHAT the truth is, there is only ONE truth. Would you agree with that? Now don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying that ANY human being, regardless of faith or anything else, KNOWS the truth in it's entirety, or probably anything even close to it. Only God knows the truth. I'm just saying that whatever that truth may be which only God knows, there can be only one. Like for example, when you look at the universe, and all of the natural and physical laws which exist and operate within it, these laws are given, or constant, and we as humans have absolutely NOTHING to do with determining them or creating them. Right? I mean, you may wish that E=MCcubed, but it just doesn't, and there's not a dag gone thing we can do about that. You may like to believe that a water molecule has three atoms of hydrogen in it, but ask Tony, it's just not so, regardless of what you believe. In my mind, it stands to reason that spiritual laws would be no different. They are given, and constant, and are truth, whether you would like to "believe" it or not you know? It's simple logic to me. Also, when I bump my reality up against my faith (and this is a constant and never-ending process for me), EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY TIME, it matches up and explains everything in it's entirety. There are no loopholes, no loose ends, and no conflicting ideas (although MC addressed conflicting ideas or teachings in her post, which I haven't gotten to yet, but give me a minute). The faith is complete, and it explains my universe, my world, my life, my feelings, my intentions, my struggles, my humility, my pride, and the evening news. Every single time without exception. And I'm not even mentioning prophecy, but let's just say, there's no ignoring the fulfilled prophecy either. And about salvation vs hell, it's just a simple choice Searcher. The faith defines hell as a place which is void of God and His influence. In this life, it's a simple choice you have to either accept Him or reject Him. If you CHOOSE to reject Him, and you don't want anything to do with Him and His love, then why would you even have a problem with the concept of hell? You choose to be without God, so you're without God. What's the problemo? And about Jesus' demise...you know, there have been many, many, many human beings who have died much for horrible deaths than Jesus did. Not to say that I'm not simpathetic to His sufferring, as it has many times brought on tears when I think of it, but suffering and death in this life seems almost trivial in comparison to suffering and death in the afterlife. I would die for Him right this second if I had to. You can string me up on a cross, and pound nails into me anytime, as long as when it's over, I get to see my Father. But that's neither here nor there... Ironically, the very contridictions that MC is referring to between the old and new test, has to do with the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Think about it...Jesus is called The Lamb for a reason. When He died for our sins on the cross, it changed EVERYTHING for us. It has everything to do with atonement. Before Jesus came, atonement for sin was conducted under the OT laws. Much of the OT is devoted to these various types of atonement, which is why many people today when reading it just don't get it. It seems brutal and barbaric and unfair and strict and unforgiving right? Well, to me that signifies the magnitude and importance of sin and it's affects on us and our universe. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ TAKES THE PLACE OF the old methods of atonement which are depicted in the OT. That's the whole reason He had to come. He is the embodiment of God's grace. I'm not saying that any of the spiritual law has changed, because as I've stated before, it is only logical that law is constant. But Jesus was sacrificed for us, so that we wouldn't have to be stoned or whipped or executed or whatever, every time we did something wrong. It all has to do with the law of cause and affect see. We all should know, based upon what we know about science and the way the universe works, is that every action has a reaction. And that reaction is compounded, and more far reaching than any of us are really aware; only God knows the true and total affect of our sin, or of our love. So, atonement is kind of "an equalizer" you know? Well, Jesus is the great equalizer of the universe now. Is this making any sense? I'm beginning to feel like I'm rambling... MC, I'm going to read the site you posted, and get back to you on those contradictions. ------------------ You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe. [This message has been edited by Lori (edited June 07, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Lori (edited June 07, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Lori (edited June 07, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Lori (edited June 07, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Lori (edited June 07, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Lori (edited June 07, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Lori (edited June 07, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Lori (edited June 07, 2000).]
Pashley, What about the bit about the "Holy Trinity". That was the part that actually interested me the most. That site claims that this was pretty much invented due to the fact that the OT specifically states that God is ONE, and absolutely not human. What is your take on that? Lori, Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I want to know your take on this. Tony, ISDA, you guys care to take a whack? PS - I'm not trying to dump on you guys, just so you know. Since I don't really believe EITHER version, I don't have much vested interest in this. I am mostly wondering how YOU, the faithful, reconcile this. Personally, I can't.
Pash-- That sounds about right. It's consistent, though, with trends in the Hebrew theology. If you can't do good works for psychiatric or medical reasons ... well, didn't God make you that way in the first place? Part of the problem I'm perceiving here is that you might be confusing their theologies. I can't recall ever learning about Jewish heaven in the same manner as the Christian heaven. It's not quite the same concept, so it is regarded quite differently, from the fundamental perspective. thanx, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ------------------ We are unutterably alone, essentially, especially in the things most intimate and important to us. (Ranier Maria Rilke)
Please do. Fodder for threads! ------------------ "Know Jesus, know peace; no Jesus, no peace." -Patrick Ashley
Why is the bible based on the concept of 2 genders? What about an alien race out there with a complex sexual reproductive cycle made up of 5 or 6, or even 15 or 20 genders? I know God is a dominent force, but why a He, or a Man? That sounds kinda messed up to me. The bible may be something else to you guys, but to me it symbol of Ignorance. Here we have more arising issues that put up opposition to the Bible's many points, and all the bible can do is back itself up with things like: 1) Separate thinking being the work of the Devil 2) Everything in bible is right because it was written by God and the people who were extremely close to God. 3) Visions and Prophets and all the strange phenomena having to do with the bible and God 4) Revelations, which tells of the second coming of Jesus 5) The story of hell and heaven and how you have to have Faith to be excepted into heaven. Sure, Lori and those other christians may think up ways to counter this and attack me by saying that my thinking is the work of the devil and that my spirit is possessed by the devil, blah blah blah... (on and on forever). The story of Genesis tells that the entire human civilization began with only a man and a women. But then what about Genetics? Based on the studies of Genetics, wouldn't that mean that our entire race is nothing more than a bunch of human inbreds? If our race was built up on only two people then how is it that we haven't been killed off by a genetic disease yet, and how come our entire civilization has a great gene diversity?
