Open Discussion on Pedophilia

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Adlerian, May 24, 2000.

  1. Adlerian Registered Senior Member

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    We are currently discussing the merits, reasons, etc, for the existence of homosexuality in another thread. There are some members of this board who are openly "gay". By "gay" here I am saying either lesbian or homosexual.

    I thought perhaps this might be an easier topic to handle. At the very least I expect a consensus, I really hope I have not misjudged at this juncture.

    Let us confine ourselves to Pedophilia only and in that way not offend anyone, I hope.

    I would say that pedophiles prey on children who are too helpless to defend themselves. It is an established fact that they receive horrible abuse when and if they go to prison. I am not condoning the abuse, just noting that even with people who are sociopathic by nature pedophilia is not condoned. Now is pedophilia just another sexual orientation or is it a mental illness? Perhaps it is neither?!?!

    Let's hear it for the pedophiliacs, they are just people too!

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    Comments?

    Adlerian

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  3. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    <img src = "http://www.exosci.com/ubb/icons/icon10.gif"> Yes, it's a very bad thing. I doubt you will find an argument with this topic, Adlerian.

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  5. Adlerian Registered Senior Member

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    Bowser: Give it 50 years, that's how long it took for some drastic changes in societal thinking to occur in other types of sexual behavior.

    I expect a lot of posts on this thread, really, I mean it!

    Make that 25 years, I just looked it up!

    Adlerian

    [This message has been edited by Adlerian (edited May 24, 2000).]
     
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  7. pashley Registered Senior Member

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    It's my understanding that the APA (American Psychological Association) is working to declassify Pedophilia as a disorder, just like they did to homosexuality. And no, I'm not kidding.

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    "It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
    -Patrick Ashley
     
  8. Adlerian Registered Senior Member

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    Pashley: Yes, you are correct. They are starting the same process by which other sexual behaviors are now accepted by a society that can neither think nor reason. Sad, but true. I'll see if I can dig up some info on it.

    Nice to see you back, hope you had a wonderful time!

    Adlerian

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  9. pashley Registered Senior Member

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    I did thanks.

    I think alot of this political correctness has to do with people not wanting to be confrontational, so they just let a behavior slide. Used to be, if you a kid was acting up bad in school, you could suspend him/her for a couple of days. If it got really out of hand, you could expel him/her. Now, if you expel a kid, they can sue you for denial of education. The kids rule the schools now.

    That's why I don't put with any of this liberal feel-good crap. If it's wrong, it's wrong, and I say so. The ambivalence in society is awful.

    I wonder how the homosexuals feel about pedophilia?

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    "It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
    -Patrick Ashley
     
  10. Adlerian Registered Senior Member

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    Pashley: I doubt that we will see much discussion here for this reason:

    I see this as the root of the problem we are facing in America today, that and an inability to think logically and rationally.

    Check out this website:
    http://www.massnews.com/pedophil.htm


    And check out this:


    Article by G.E. Zuriff is professor of psychology at Wheaton College and a clinical psychologist in the Medical Department of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

    The original article that was published supporting pedophilia was the American Psychological Association's Psychological Bulletin, "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples," by Bruce Rind, Philip Tromovitch and Robert Bauserman, in July 1998.

    What a sad day.

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    Adlerian
     
  11. pashley Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, and they don't give a damn about the emotional cripples these perverts leave in their wake.

    I'll tell you right now, if I ever catch some pedophile touching my boy, I'll beat that bastard to a pulp.

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    "It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
    -Patrick Ashley
     
  12. Brian Registered Senior Member

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    In some societies, fondling the genetalia of children is a normal and accepted cultural practice.

    Brian
     
  13. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    <img src = "http://users.esc.net.au/~nitro/BBoard_member_gifs/bowser_anim.gif"> Hmm... Who wants to touch Brian's last comment? I myself am affraid to ask.

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    [This message has been edited by Bowser (edited May 24, 2000).]
     
  14. pashley Registered Senior Member

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    What society? And because they do it, does not make it right.

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    "It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
    -Patrick Ashley
     
  15. Adlerian Registered Senior Member

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    Brian: Please list the source of your information. Do you believe that what you said causes no harm?

    From Brian's post it is easy to see that those who will bring pedophilia into our society, and by the way, I believe it will become acceptable, have already made inroads into the minds of the society.

    Adlerian

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  16. DaveW Registered Senior Member

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    egads!?!???
    If it is socially acceptable, then it absolutely is right. Your society is not universally correct.

    Everything is socially defined.

    Also, there should be some definitions produced. What do you mean by pedophilia? Age 30 with someone age 12? Age 30 with someone 17? 15? Where are the boundaries? 15 and 15?

    Of course, the boundaries are socially defined. It's all well and good to say pedophilia is evil, or to say that "murder" is evil. Yet America murders people every day in the name of "justice". Everything is socially defined.
     
  17. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    <img src = "http://users.esc.net.au/~nitro/BBoard_member_gifs/bowser_anim.gif"> Good point, Dave. Most adults would find that having sex with a young person (child) repugnant. That's why we establish rules about such things--to protect the young from those who don't know better. I imagine that some societies are still evolving from their primitive origins.

    Personally, I feel that it is an abuse of sickening dimensions to take that form of advantage of the young--much like the military draft of eighteen-year-olds.



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  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Has anyone considered two effects of removing pedophilia from the DSM?

    * Pedophiles will no longer be able to use insanity as a criminal defense. Specifically, it will be much more difficult to present that defense.

    * If we are to determine that pedophilia is symptomatic, and not of its own independent cause, removing it from one classification, and recognizing it as another presents new options of treatment.

    Just curious ... it seems to me that these two aspects of redefining pedophilia might actually help society prepare to address the issues.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  19. pashley Registered Senior Member

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    It's my understanding that pedophiles have about the highest recicidivism (sp?) rate there is. Virtually incurable.

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    "It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
    -Patrick Ashley
     
  20. Adlerian Registered Senior Member

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    DaveW: Hey, thanks for showing up in my thread!!!!

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    Great to see you!!! Thanks again for the terrific board! I have never met a nicer group of people on the internet, even the ones with whom I disagree.

    Actually Dave, there are other definitions other than social. If society defined pedophilia as a good thing would that make it so? Obviously not. The laws of this country are not "socially defined". They are defined by the Supreme Court when needed as as ULTIMATE source of authority for definition.

    The Proposition in California that would have outlawed EEO status for employment was struck down by the court in California as being unconstitutional. Social definition was that the current laws were bad and the court said otherwise. Guess who won?

    Tiassa: Perhaps you should review the change in definition again in the case of pedophilia. First, as Pashley pointed out the recidivism rate for pedophilia is virtually nil. This is why they passed the Megan law. ALL child molestors shall be indentified because they cannot be cured. Also by your example other sexual preferences should have had other effects once they changed their definition of them but they didn't.

    Nice to see some action in this thread.

    But what about, "Let's here it for the Pedophiles, they're people too"?

    I mean after all they are just people, right?

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    Adlerian
     
  21. DaveW Registered Senior Member

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    Judges are people, are they not? The people who wrote the laws are also people. The law is the most formal embodyment of social will. Of course, the law to some extent helps shape and define social values, but it still is/was defined by humans with all their imperfections.

    So untill we develop super-ethical robots who somehow tap into the mythical universal ethical force that we can't see through our layers of social bias, we really can't say anything is "good" or "evil".
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Pash--

    So if I'm reading you correctly, you are suggesting that our previous regard for pedophilia as its own insanity has helped control or fix the problem?

    Consider, for a moment, something a little less damaging than pedophilia. Say you know Bob, who drinks too much, snorts lines, cheats on his wife, and gambles away the family car every few weeks. So we send him to Alcoholics, Cokeheads, and Gamblers Anonymous; I might remind you that in my own life, we have regarded these problems as primary and not symptomatic. I'm happy, in that sense, that it's changing.

    So you get Bob to stop drinking so much, drop his coke habit, and control his gambling problem. He pops over to a counselor, who helps him stop cheating on his wife. Theoretically, he's cured. Or is he? Has anyone in that chain of well-intended helpers stopped to think of why Bob drinks, snorts, screws, and gambles?

    Unless Bob cracks the foundation of whatever unhappiness or conditions compel him to booze, philander, gamble, and rail, his unhappiness will merely find another, possibly even more destructive method of manifestation.

    Likewise, we might treat pedophilia as symptomatic. Perhaps we might then find some better insight into its causes, and thus find some insight in how to control its development.

    Or is it more important to catch and punish them?

    I don't know, what about it? I'm sorry, dude, but I just can't believe you're that dumb. Really, I can't; there's no sarcasm there. But you really do seem to enjoy ignoring people's words and ideas so that you can describe them yourself. Get over it, really. I suppose next you'll be arguing, what ...?

    I guess it's like when I agree with this or that acquittal of an obviously guilty person; it isn't that I support their actions, but that I expect my government to adhere to its rules; if it fails to do so .... There's a huge issue here, so if I might touch on its nature: Look at how the US busted the cigarette industry. Needed to happen, but look at how it happened. Because the government was so desperate to nail the industry, we've set a procedural precedent that can be executed against gun manufacturers, auto manufacturers, and booze companies.

    But you're a bright guy. So I'll trust your assessment. Quite obviously, the old way of handling things worked so well.

    top o'the day,
    Tiassa

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  23. Adlerian Registered Senior Member

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    Tiassa: Thanks for the laugh! Really, I mean we DO have our differences but that made my day!

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    My point was that since that line of defence was used elsewhere as a rebuttal it should be able to be shoehorned in just about anywhere and work. The point of my sarcasm was that it has nil to do with anything and is an classic example of a non-thinking statement.

    As far as child molesting being symptomatic is concerned I take it that you would rather look to blame others for the behavior of the perpetrators. It is your right to believe that however they haven't found a cure for sexual addictions that are that sociopathic. By the time that addiction evidences itself in behavior it is too late for a cure, hence, the Megan law.

    Personally? I think they should be fried in the electric chair. The detriment that they cause society is heinous. People rarely can be healed of the scars left by such abuse. They ruin lives. I have no compassion on criminals, just their victims, which is where it should belong.

    Right back at ya, good buddy,

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