Open Discussion on Pedophilia

DaveW:

It is nice to know where you stand.

See ya later

 

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Good is what we like; evil is what we don't like. If we can't tell the difference we are in big trouble.


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"It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
-Patrick Ashley

 

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Tiassa,

Look, if people want to research a cure or treatment for pedophiles, fine. But they need to be locked away due to the fact that they DO re-offend, and often.

Kids are more important. Let's protect them.

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"It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
-Patrick Ashley

 

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Alderian--

You're buying into one of the oldest myths of criminal prosecution. Consider the Miranda statement: for years, police were required to read these rights to criminals at the time of their arrest. When I was in high school, conservatives began complaining about Miranda "giving rights to criminals". We know the difference between accused and guilty, so I don't think we need to fight there. But those conservatives were overlooking the historically demonstrable trend of abuse of power which made the Miranda decision so critical. I mean, if a bunch of cops in the south hadn't beaten the holy crap out of Ernesto Miranda for a rape he didn't commit ... if they hadn't beaten him senseless for the crime of being Hispanic and out of work ... well?

Now, as this applies to pedophilia: Despite your need to perpetuate the problem in order to fight it ... well, that's up to you. But I have another story. This one's quicker.

* Donnie is born. Period. One day he's born. He grows up ... perhaps he has a bad family situation, perhaps it's stable enough that the rest of society will kid themselves into thinking it's a good family situation. For whatever reasons (which we don't really know yet, but that's the point!, Donnie takes a fancy for little girls. Donnie assaults a little girl, and is sent to jail until he dies. About the time Donnie assaulted the little girl, a boy named Joe is born. Joe grows up, perhaps a good family, perhaps a bad. For whatever reason, Joe takes a fancy for little girls .....

Wouldn't it be nice if we could identify the point at which Joe or Donnie went bad? Once we view pedophilia as symptomatic, we can start chasing that point. Perhaps we won't lock up a given child molester because, oh, he never started.

But, I admit, crime and punishment is more important. After all, it's a growth industry with profitable aspects.

We can fry offender after offender as long as you like. But we're never going to get to the answer unless we try a few different perspectives on for size. Rose-colored glasses are nice, but we well know that some objects will disappear into the tint. Certes, crime and punishment is fine, but what are we not seeing in the meantime?

thanx,
Tiassa

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We are unutterably alone, essentially, especially in the things most intimate and important to us. (Ranier Maria Rilke)

 

Pash--

You're demonstrating a wonderful little problem. You apparently are so focused on the idea of punishing a pedophile after he's raped a kid that you aren't considering how to prevent those rapes from occurring in the first place.

And we wonder why crime in general, not just pedophilia, is so problematic.

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thanx
Tiassa

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We are unutterably alone, essentially, especially in the things most intimate and important to us. (Ranier Maria Rilke)

 

Hello All,

If I remember correctly, the societies in which the fondling of children was found to be a normal and acceptable part of their culture were found in New Guinea and Micronesia. Such findings were the result of research done by an American Nobel Prize laureate who was a pediatrician (and microbiologist, if I remember correctly) researching child development on a global basis.

I'll try to find more details.

Thanks,

Brian

 

Greetings -

**pashley: "I'll tell you right now, if I ever catch some pedophile touching my boy, I'll beat that bastard to a pulp."

**Adlerian: "Personally? I think they should be fried in the electric chair."

Well now, if this doesn't reek of jesus and christianity, what does?

Disgustedly,
FyreStar

 

Huzah for mob justice!

 

<img src = "http://users.esc.net.au/~nitro/BBoard_member_gifs/bowser_anim.gif"> Hmm... Being a parent, I can sympathize more with the comments of Adlerian and pashley than the mental health needs of a known pedophile.



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It's all very large.

 

Ok, just to spice it up:

Should we try to differentiate between rape and consentual intercourse? Obviously, rape is bad -- whether it's done to children or adults is a secondary issue. But what if a society (hypothetically, of course) accepts pedophelia as normal, and children accept it as normal, and no relationship is allowed to lawfully form between a child and an adult if it is not condoned by the child -- then who's getting hurt (and in what way?) Now, admittedly the situation is hypothetical and could never occur in practice -- because adults are much better at taking advantage of children than children are at resisting adult coersion. But then I have to ask: what is it about pedophilia that is truly revulsive -- the sexual aspects of it, or rape and coersion?

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I am; therefore I think.

 

FyreStar,

Since you brought it up - as a follow-up to my response about what do I think of Christians/Christianity:

The expressions themselves came from frightened, angry and seemingly hate-filled "individuals" - I would never have associated those types of statements with true followers of the Jesus Christ that I have read about.

Thanks,

Brian

 

I'm all for prevention, Tiassa, but there will never be 100% prevention. Life is not that predictable. Some parents will do everything right, and the perp will still come into being.

First of all, protect the kids; second, punish the hell out of the perps; third, look for treatments/prevention. (I don't hold much hope for prevention)


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"It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
-Patrick Ashley

 

Don't give us that crap, Fyre. While we are always ready to forgive someone that feels true repentence, as is God, those that keeping sinning deserve punishment.

Would should we do, just love Hitler?

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"It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
-Patrick Ashley

 

You mean the depression, lack of trust, anxiety, and other sociopathic behaviors that usually occur?

Or the taking away of innocence? The ability for the child to share their first time with someone they love?

The possible pregnancy or STDs?

Other than that, I can't see any problems either

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"It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
-Patrick Ashley

 

Am I frightened and hateful of pedophiles? Yes. I make no apologies, Brian. I don't know what kind of Christians you are talking about, but this one IS human, and based in reality. I try to understand the motivations of people and try to at least, get along with them, and I try to trust that God will take care of what needs to be done. THAT is what kind of Christian I am. I trust God, yes, but I lock the doors anyway.

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"It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
-Patrick Ashley

 

Pashley,

So basically you are choosing rape and coersion, as I suspected. The only reason I asked, is that judging by the first couple of posts on this thread there appeared to be some kind of a sly attempt to draw a parallel between pedophilia and homosexuality. Note that homosexuality does not normally involve rape or coersion. That's really all I wanted to say here.

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I am; therefore I think.

 

pashley -

**pashley: "Don't give us that crap, Fyre. While we are always ready to forgive someone that feels true repentence, as is God, those that keeping sinning deserve punishment."

And as long as they don't piss you off. Don't try to feed me that bullshit. You are using your god to rationalize your hatred.

**pashley: "Would should we do, just love Hitler?"

Why don't you re-read the words of your own supposed savior and tell me.

 

Fyre, I'll stand by what I said.

Love the sinner, hate the sin. Yeah, I'm human, and sometimes can't get over the hating of a pedophile. What, you love them?

 

Pashley,

You wrote,

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"First of all, protect the kids; second, punish the hell out of the perps; third, look for treatments/prevention. (I don't hold much hope for prevention)"
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How do you protect the kids without first preventing the act? The issue is to protect children. If the perp is already being punished then society has failed to protect our children and the laws concerning pedophilia are not there for the welfare of the victim. Punishing the perp will only give the onlookers a sense of justice the child will still have their scares. As you have said yourself a pedophile is incurable, do you believe that a beating from you or time in jail will cure their missguided sense of sexuallity? that would be niave don't you think. Incurable means that beating them isn't going to do squat. Hence the solution is PREVENTION. It serves the best interest of everyone involved even the "just human" pedophiles. Most of all it serves society it doesn't force society to harm/kill the offender. A government sanctioned kill is still murder, a government sanctioned imprisonment is still the denial of civil rights. Punishment of any serious crime is a failiure...we should be working towrds prevention in any and all cases that can be prevented.

 

pashley -

**pashley: "Yeah, I'm human, and sometimes can't get over the hating of a pedophile. What, you love them?"

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Why, no, pashley.. but neither do I claim to follow the words of the christian god or his supposed son. Consequently, I am not a hypocrite. And its too bad that you confuse the greatness of the human mind with a moral impediment.

FyreStar