Orcas are first non-humans whose evolution is driven by culture

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Plazma Inferno!, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. Plazma Inferno! Ding Ding Ding Ding Administrator

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    Many researchers accept that cultural experiences have helped shape human evolution – and evidence has now emerged that the same may be true of killer whales.
    Human genomes have evolved in response to our cultural behaviours: a classic example is the way that some human populations gained genes for lactose tolerance following the onset of dairy farming.
    But whether genomes and culture co-evolve in other animal species has been unclear.
    Andrew Foote at the University of Bern, Switzerland, and his colleagues suspected that killer whales might follow a similar pattern to humans.

    https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-humans-whose-evolution-is-driven-by-culture/
     
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  3. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Orcas (at least in some oceans) seem to recognize humans as creatures much like themselves. When they discover humans in the water as the result of an accident, rather than eating them they push them up to the surface, allowing them to breathe. Orcas have saved the lives of quite a few humans.

    Of course, it's been speculated that the behavior of humans in the ocean without oxygen tanks looks rather similar to the way baby orcas behave, so perhaps they're just exercising their instincts.
     
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  5. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    So-called "researchers" apparently unaware of the existence of dogs (and horses, and cats, et al). Fascinating.
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Are you suggesting that dogs, cats or horses are sophisticated enough to have their own cultures?

    We're not talking about animals being affected by human culture.
    And we're not talking about mere geographic isolation - that's not cultural; Orcas of different pods share the same seas (i.e. not geographically isolated), yet still choose to keep to their own clans.
     
  8. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Self awareness is not limited to the fucking idiots who created gods. There are probably several more rational creatures here than just we insane and narcissistic monkeys.
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    I Feel Really Pedantic ....

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    Why does the phrase "gained genes" bother me so much?

    Human genomes have evolved in response to our cultural behaviours: a classic example is the way that some human populations gained genes for lactose tolerance following the onset of dairy farming.

    (Barras↱)

    Okay, what am I missing?

    If

    ... biologists use the term “culture” to describe the learning of such striking behaviours ...​

    and

    ... even though killer whales shared a common ancestor as recently as 200,000 years ago, individual cultural groups have become genetically distinct ...​

    and

    ... The genomes indicate that all five groups began when a small founding population – numbering perhaps a few tens or hundreds of individuals – invaded each new niche and then expanded ...​

    and

    ... Whenever a species passes through this sort of population bottleneck, it can rapidly gain a unique genetic identity ...​

    then

    ↳ What does the phrase "gained genes" actually mean?​

    It seems as if I need to widen the scope. Working with the phrase "some human populations gained genes for lactose tolerance" actually makes sense, but isn't that largely a matter of a certain degree of disruption to a population that is injured or falls behind because of the difference, as well as the prosperity of the advantaged population over the course of generations? The "population", interpreted particularly to mean all of the people within the group through a given demarcated period, does gain raw numbers of individuals expressing lactose tolerant, but that seems a really thin definition of a human population gaining genes.

    I mean, I am aware it's possible for certain organisms to actively annex actual foreign genetic material, but I'm also pretty sure that's not what the phrase is intended to mean on this occasion.

    Did either humanity or orcas actually acquire new genetic material in some manner specifically dependent on cultural expression that I am, in ignorance and general density, simply failing to glean from the article?

    Oh, hey, the journal article is currently open access↱.

    And ...no. I really don't like the phrase "gained genes".

    So ... okay, what am I missing? Obviously, I'm using too tight a definition of what it means to gain a gene. Then again, even under that definition, I can still speculate a connection between culture and gaining genes. And it's really speculative. But still, for some reason those words grabbed my attention.

    Why is whatever functional definition by which I perceive the words constricted? What obvious point am I completely overlooking that I should suddenly get so pedantic about two words I probably shouldn't have noticed except for a psychoanalysis I don't feel like trying to read right now?
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Barras, Colin. "Orcas are first non-humans whose evolution is driven by culture". New Scientist. 31 May 2016. NewScientist.com. 1 June 2016. http://bit.ly/1TQIGfv

    Foote, Andre D., et al. "Genome-culture coevolution promotes rapid divergence of killer whale ecotypes". Nature Communications. 31 May 2016. Nature.com. 1 June 2016. http://go.nature.com/1UgfE3f
     
  10. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    New Scientist isn’t a rigorous scientific journal, it’s a popular science magazine. It isn’t hard to find technically inaccurate phrases in NS. Go to the Nature article on which it is based if you want technical specificity.

    Of course, no gene was “gained” in the development of lactase persistence. The phenotype is the result of altered transcriptional regulation of the already-existing lactase gene, viz. the ongoing maintenance of lactase gene expression throughout life (= lactose tolerance) as opposed to the downregulation of expression after weaning (= lactose intolerance).
     
  11. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    I learned from experience that lactose intolerance can kick in at any time during one's life.

    My DNA is 1/4 British (a population that is a mixture of Celtic, Roman and Germanic DNA, in which lactose tolerance in adulthood is nearly universal); 1/2 Slavic (another population that has intermarried with every ethnic group within reach--and in which lactose tolerance is also nearly universal); and 1/4 Jewish (a population whose DNA has been mingled with virtually every neighboring population, but nonetheless lactose tolerance is not common).

    I was a happy little milk drinker until I began to approach my 30th birthday. My friends started complaining because I was farting too much, and the condition soon became so uncomfortable that I simply had to quit drinking milk.
     
  12. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    How are you Australian hillbilly from Kentucky, long time absent. Your input is respectable.
     
  13. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Dolphins do that too. I believe they have more complex social groups than orcas, certainly much larger ones. They can be trained in capitivity to do complex tricks and even originate some.

    They have a complex language, that the can use to coordinate planned actions with. They understand to some extent human verbal instructions. Surely their choice of mate is at least partially based on these skills.* A trainer who had worked with a pair for years, could request specific tricks. One day he asked them to do something new surprising. They went below the surface then jumped high out of the water and at the peak of their arc, both spit a mouth full of water out together. That had to have been plan while under the water - not one copying the behavior of the other high in the air!

    * I. e. they are controlling their own evolution, but that is not new. Sexual selection is common and has produced the peacock's huge tail, etc. It is not "selection of the fittest" that prevails in evolution many cases, but "self-controlled" evolution.
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    There is an assumption here that the reason orcas try to push something to the surface is because it recognizes an air-breather.

    Who knows, maybe anything it doesn't decide is food, might be pushed to the surface. Maybe they're not all that smart.
     
  15. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Predators are smart. Go walkabout in bear country with no firearm.
     

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