Protestors

Discussion in 'Politics' started by birch, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, I haven't said that I'm a "real Republican" either. I have repeatedly said, I am an independent voter, and I have also said I don't always vote Democrat or Republican. I supported McCain back in the day when he ran against George Junior. I voted for Reagan twice. I liked Perot before he walked off the deep end. I've voted for a Republican, and donated to a Republican as recently as last year.

    I don't like where the Republican Party has gone. That is true. I don't like the extremism. I don't like its heavy reliance on deception and demagoguery. Yeah, that bothers me a lot. Democrats aren't perfect either. But they are much more honest than their Republican counterparts. They generally don't eschew science as do their Republican counterparts, and they aren't dependent upon demagoguery and deception like their Republicans counterparts.
     
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Question:
    What happens when Trump takes Viagra?
    Answer:
    He grows taller.

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    Sorry.
    Jokes aside.....
    Truthfully, the vast majority of Australians have been laughing incredously since this election debacle started.
     
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  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I think his minders have taken away his access Twitter.
     
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  7. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    It's a national embarrassment.
     
  8. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Congratulations. Now if you could just get that pesky reading comprehension under control you'd be all set!
     
  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    LOL...now if you could just get that thinking thing down, you would be all set, and you wouldn't have to rely upon ad hominem. You know, you could actually make an honest well reasoned argument.

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  10. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Just a note--anarchists mix in with protesters, causing damage to local shops, cars and private property.
     
  11. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    I think that now he is President-elect he will find his liberties somewhat curbed, far more than he is used to and far more than he may like. Will he even be able to post unsolicited tweets at 3am? I doubt it, at least not without vetting by a team set up for the purpose of limiting the damage he can do.

    As for his signature policy... there will be a vast difference between the rhetoric of his campaigning and the reality of his policies.
    For most, his signature policy was with regard to the infrastructure projects, effectively building the US into economic growth - pumping money into the economy through such works. Not a bad policy, to be honest, but I'm not too au fait with the US budgetary constraints and fiscal policies.
    In the UK, for example, such a policy was advocated by the Labour party while the Conservatives advocated austerity - both seen as a route to improving the overall finances of the country.

    As an outsider I'm very much in a "wait and see" holding pattern, although I find him a fairly detestable narcissist. But how he will do for the global economy, I wait and see.
    My one disappointment will be if he succeeds in repealing Obamacare. I'm a liberal at heart, happily paying my dues so the less well off can get at least a semblance of what they need - although I, like so many others, detest those that then take unwarranted advantage of that system.
    Obamacare seemed to me to be a good step in that direction, although it may be the intention of the bill that i like rather than the detail of how that was achieved. I'm aware that it pushed premiums up for others, quite significantly, whereas ideally it would have pushed up the premiums for the richest much more than for the lower paid. But I happily admit i'm not too close to the detail to really speak beyond what I see as its intention.
    Anyhoo - unless a suitable alternative is offered, I can't see how repealing the bill would be a good thing - and in my view any suitable alternative has to provide at least a reasonable level of care for every member of society.

    Meh, enough from me.
     
    Quantum Quack likes this.
  12. BWE1 Rulers are for measuring. Registered Senior Member

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    Well, violence was going to result no matter who won. But I am pretty pleased that secession initiatives will be on the ballot on the whole sane coast.
     
  13. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Oh california seceding from the union? Where are they going to get water? Lol

    Even though cali is a huge economy in itself like a little coubtry it cant generate that revenue on its own.
     
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    That's the prayer. Everyone is in wait and see mode. Apparently, someone has given him his smart phone. Because we are seeing the 3 AM tweets again, but an aid was quick to clean up the mess this morning.

    The professor who correctly predicted a Trump victory is now predicting Trump will be impeached by a Republican congress. I've had this discussion with self described conservatives and Republicans before. They think they can rectify all the problems a Trump presidency would bring by impeaching him. It has only been a few days after the election and already Trump is running into legal problems with nepotism laws.

    I think Trump's legal woes and other woes are just beginning. He and his family are now living in the spot light. His business dealings will be very much in the spotlight.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ade-another-forecast-trump-will-be-impeached/
     
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,910
    Where do you think they get their water? If you are referring to the water California receives from the Colorado River because the Colorado River runs through California, an independent California doesn't alter or change California's riparian rights...oops.

    So you don't think California can produce all the stuff it produces without being apart of the United States? Please explain how that works. Why does California need the rest of the US to produce the goods and services it produces? It doesn't need the rest of the US to make movies, to create new technologies and new businesses. It does all that on its own. It doesn't need Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma or any other state to do what it does.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  16. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    Do you think america is heading toward divided nation-states? Or some semblance of the EU but for different political reasons? One country for white supremacists, another for pro-blacks, another for multiculturalists etc with washington similar to great britain?
     
  17. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    They dont recieve federal funding? Of course they do. Entire laws would have to ne rewritten and a whole new government would need to be set up. Its not impossible but there would be some big hurdles.
     
  18. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,910
    Sure they receive federal funding; every state does. But unlike most red states, California gives more to the federal government than it receives from the federal government. Financially, California would be better off if they separated from the Union. California is one of the states which are least dependent upon the federal government.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business...tates-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

    https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/
     
  19. BWE1 Rulers are for measuring. Registered Senior Member

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    I think it has become a riot. And I wish they'd burn down better targets. This taking it out on small business bit is shit.
     
  20. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    I don't recall riots when Barack Obama won. Many people were disappointed. But that's democracy, I guess. There weren't riots, arson and looting.

    That idea worked out really well for South Carolina in 1861.
     
  21. BWE1 Rulers are for measuring. Registered Senior Member

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    Either that or a police state. This president is, in a put your body in the way kind of way, completely unacceptable to a sizeable minority. There will need to be heavy handed responses to the rioters and soon to be domestic terrorists. Of course, the same was true of Clinton. I think we're fucked no matter how we go about trying to deal. I like the idea of supporting secession because it makes me feel like a third solution is possible. But it is about the shittiest thing we could do to the rest of the people who would be left behind. Also, pipelines from the Columbia are already past the planning stage. That is going to require a lot more common ground between Pacific Northwesterners and Californians which a share country could do. But yeah. The bitterness it would cause would be massive. Fuck it I guess. Buy an AR 15 and learn how to shoot it, right? That's the American way.
     
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    23,328
    Perhaps one of the many lessons we can take from this dreadful experience is that most people including those who "think" they are better positioned to know, do not understand what responsibilities a President of a country as diverse and dynamic as the USA and a world leader have to accept, endure and discharge.
    If we assume for a moment, that Trumps nomination, and subsequent behavior during the campaign was born of ignorance, especially ignorance of his own ignorance, essentially naive to the actual challenge of what it takes to fill the role then in many ways we can find a way to understand the chaos and pain that has been experienced.

    Perhaps Obama in his initial meeting with Trump. laid out copies of 1000's of suicide notes that are confirmed as directly related to the Trump campaign for Trump to assess and shortly later laid out a similar bundle of suicide notes attributed to the Obama presidency he may be able to impart upon Trump something that only a leader of a large and diverse collective such as the USA and global community has to consider in every official and personal decision he takes.

    Trump was essentially a loner, a sole operator who has little sense of responsibility to those he impacts on. The archetype-ical hyper capitalist who gets the job done regardless of who has to suffer in the process. Whilst this may be acceptable in a ruthless business environment ( which it is not really the case but another story yes?) it is not as acceptable in a leader charged with the responsibility to protect and nurture all those individuals with in a the collective knowing fully well that there is never a win win situation in the short term. and that always that the "profit and loss" statement of human misery has two columns to it.

    Perhaps Obama would say to Trump,
    "Sometimes when I feeling a little morbid I wake up in the morning and ask myself; How many people died because of my leadership and decisions while I slept?"
    ...and then I check my morbidity by asking the similar but opposite question; "How many people are alive today because of my leadership?"
    ...and gain comfort from the fact that in the main many more people benefit from my decisions that those that do not.

    Perhaps Trumps is like most people, suffer the isolation and feelings of distress due to a perceived lack of empathy from a government that appears to be living in a universe of it's own. Certainly the recent election proves this to be a major driver?

    Perhaps Trump may come to realize, and Obama to further realize, that ensuring that community connected-ness with it's government is as important if not more important than just discharging it's perceived duties.

    Watching recent video footage of Trump during his startup tour of Gov departments, it is obvious to me that Trump appears to be almost over whelmed by the sheer scale of the learning curve that he is about to endure.
    The fact that he displays this, to me, indicates that his understanding of his own naivety may yet provide hope for a successful future Trump administration

    I might add this is the first time I have felt optimistic since this campaign began.

    Knowing that Trump is 70 years old and knowing the sheer scale of the challenge he faces in adapting to a completely different set of operating principles can only hope that he can physically, emotionally and mentally "walk the talk" and deliver his own unique and successful style of governance to the Presidency.

    The more quality time he spends with Obama over the next 30 days or so the more likely his success IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
    birch likes this.
  23. BWE1 Rulers are for measuring. Registered Senior Member

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    312
    Barack Obama did not preach hate. This is a false equivalence. Also, the militia groups and KKK types, aka trump's base, had already promised blood in the streets when Hillary won. To be fair to them, if you believed the media narrative about her, and enough of it was based in fact to make it easy to spin up, it kind of makes sense that they would want that. It's not the numbers, it's the intensity.

    Also South Carolina was a different case in a different time.
     

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