The Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 17, 2017.

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  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    #governmentdoesntwork | #WhatTheyVotedFor

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    The lede very nearly doesn't make sense—

    White House aides have been told to decide before the end of January whether they intend to leave the administration or stay through the November midterm elections, an official said, a deadline intended to help bring a sense of order to an anticipated staffing exodus.

    (CNN↱)

    —but then I remember this is the Trump administration, and suddenly it sounds like just another day.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Zeleny, Jeff, Kevin Liptak, Dana Bash, and Dan Merica. "Facing staffing exodus, Trump struggles to fill West Wing". CNN. 9 January 2018. CNN.com. 9 January 2018. http://cnn.it/2CLlAjP
     
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  3. douwd20 Registered Senior Member

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    So today in the neverending daily horror show that is the Trump presidency we hit yet another record low. Each day this country loses a little more of it's soul and some days a lot. But as long as the rich can have their tax cuts, the poor are made to suffer a little more and minorities (sexual, religious and racial) are demeaned it's all good.

    Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” Trump said, according to these people, referring to African countries and Haiti. He then suggested that the United States should instead bring more people from countries like Norway, whose prime minister he met Wednesday.

    Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘shithole’ countries in Oval Office meeting
     
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  5. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    I checked the news headlines as this seems incredible (and debasing). Yes ,there it is
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42656433

    This seems more and more fair comment

    https://www.cartoonmovement.com/dep...1/statue_of_liberty_trump__osama__nazzal.jpeg
     
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  7. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    I laughed so hard when I heard this in the car via NPR. By the way this is pure 'race-realist'/alt-right talk from trump, so I'm sure the alt-right are masturbating furiously in joy right now.
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Good luck getting scads of people from Norway to move to the US for the advanced civilization - they have First World health care, tuition-free college and vocational programs including apprenticeships, modern civilization stuff like that, in Norway.

    Meanwhile, the Chinese leadership features very few people who will refer to the countries of Africa they are busy cutting deals with as "shitholes". Not with that kind of access to resources and business opportunities on the line.
     
  9. birch Valued Senior Member

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    lol
     
  10. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    You know it is really hard to fathom when you consider the hundreds of trillions of dollars and millions of hours invested in "Good Will" building by the USA for the USA, only to have a person like D. Trump come along and destroy or massively damage that investment with only a few words. Pathetic Mr Trump really pathetic!

    Sh*t hole countries indeed!!!
    That one single statement by Trump possibly cost over a trillion dollars in invested good will... Could he possibly understand it... nope!
     
  11. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    How will this be spun? He was referring to other countries in general ? He meant to say "hell hole"?

    Do the democrats realize what other countries think about the USA. ?

    The politcally correct elites are afraid to say it although they know it is true(obviously it is fake news) ?

    Who is going to write the content for his autocue this time ?

    Is this outburst (well more like an incontinence leak ) evidence in itself of mental illness?
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Trump has in the past welcomed Haitians to the US, Raw Story reports:
    Nominally anonymous purchasers of foreign real estate using shell companies and paying cash are familiar entities in the world of shithole countries and their heads of State. They might even be said to identify or characterize such countries - if your head of State is involved in such dealings, you live in a shithole, as a rule of thumb.
     
  13. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    What do you want? Donald Johnovich is simply doing his job.

    And I think he understands this very well. This hits the globalist faction of the American deep state - that means, his enemies.

    Essentially, what he does fits nicely into a general picture. He cannot do an openly isolationist policy - the globalist faction is too strong for this. So, the relations with Russia deteriorate despite Trump being in power. What would be a rational strategy to reach isolationist results in such a situation? Polemical over-exaggeration. Do, verbally, what the globalists want you to do, but over-exaggerate in such a way that this is too much even for them so that even they start to prefer if he changes the direction. Moreover, the rest of the world (inclusive vassals) will object, and organize resistance. After this, change the direction to good old isolationist policy. You have reached what you wanted initially - the isolationist policy - and can do this now without much internal resistance. On the other hand, the globalists are seriously and for a long-term harmed by the organization of resistance by the rest of the world, which destroys US soft-power and gives this soft-power to other players.

    This seems to be a common picture for at least three "failures" of the last time - the embassy in Jerusalem, the Maidan in Iran, and the crisis in Korea.

    The embassy in Jerusalem was something supported by the hawks. It was almost done by former administrations, but not really with the aim to use it, but as an instrument for blackmail of the Arabs. He has given the instrument for blackmail away for nothing, seriously harming the globalists in this way. It has seriously weakened US soft power in Arab countries, but not only, even in Europe. The rest of the world united against the US in the UN. Again, Trump was doing what the hawks like - to blackmail the rest of the world to vote in the UN for US interests. But, please, not in such an open way!!!1!11! Now US soft power in the UN is seriously harmed, voting for US interests now makes you suspect to be paid by the US, voting against the US became easier, and Trump can now really reduce various payments as to UN, as to those countries who have voted against the US, which is what would be an isolationist policy. But the Hawks cannot really object. The alternative now would be that the blackmail was hot air - the payments remain the same. This would be an even more serious loss of soft power if people start to ignore blackmails because the US appears to be a paper tiger.

    The Maidan in Iran had similarly catastrophic consequences for the globalists. Whatever was the real cause of them - the CIA or some internal problems - Donald Johnovich has behaved even more hawkish than the hawks, openly supporting the protesters. This was a great help for the Iranian leadership, which used this present in the informational warfare presenting these protesters (justified or not, who knows) as paid foreign agents. Then, again, a stupid action in the UNSC, with a predictable result - the world unified against the US. Europe clearly supported Iran. What the globalists may have hoped to reach (like using the protests to motivate some EU sanctions or so) failed, future hopes for a successful color revolution in Iran are dead now for at least many years. Moreover, this has weakened the color revolution method of regime change everywhere - because it will remain in the memories everywhere as yet another example of an upheaval in some country where the US would like to see a regime change where the US has openly supported the upheaval.

    The crisis in Korea is, of course, not yet over, but what has happened up to now fits nicely into this scheme too. Trump has started all this with heavy warmongering, too much even for the Hawks. Indeed, given that NK has now nuclear weapons as well as intercontinental rockets to send them to the US (or at least it looks like this, which makes no difference for the deterrence effect), even the hawks do not want a nuclear war. The rest of the world has unified against such a war. Now, the Koreans have started negotiations themselves, without the US. And Trump has, now, no problem with these negotiations. If all this, hypothetically, ends with a peace, and the US is thrown out of South Korea, Trump may not even object. But this would be the ideal isolationist policy.

    All this remembers the Marxian "history repeats ... first as tragedy, then as farce". Trump simply repeats what was standard US policy all the time - but exaggerates this into a farce. And, given that the world recognizes this as being a farce, the world does not submit but starts to resist. The farce fails, predictably, and Trump after this switches to a more reasonable isolationist policy. The method he has used, even only as a farce, is now discredited, and it would be much more difficult to reuse it after Trump, given that it has been already discredited as a farce.

    Naming other countries "shithole countries" is, in comparison with these quite complex operations, a minor issue, but works in the same direction, namely destruction of the US soft power.

    Except that the main actor is, in this case, not Trump but the liberal media. The harm done to the globalist faction by this remark would have been minimal to non-existent if they would not have used this to attack Trump. What are the consequences of this media attack? Let's see. The remark becomes famous around the whole world, even to people like me who don't care much about US media, harming US soft power, which harms the globalists. The liberal masses will hate Trump even more, especially those with sympathies to or connections with the "shithole countries". But the Trump supporters, who hate political correctness, will like him even more, for telling the truth and naming shithole countries "shithole countries". So, the split inside America deepens, weakening the US globally. Any real advantage in the fight against Trump? Seems invisible. So the globalist media do what is necessary to make a side remark useful for isolationists. Stupidity?
     
  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    maybe...
    >>nah he is just impulsively stupid most of the time and brilliant some of the time.

    maybe...
    >>Given his extreme ignorance, his impulsivity, mixed with heady conspiracy theory and paranoia ( c/o fox news and huge diet of junk food) his extreme racist, nationalist alt right agenda is obvious to any one who refuses to turn a blind eye to it.


    maybe...
    >> Nah he was only doing his great friend Neten-yahoo ( since uni days) a great favor given both are heavily involved in significant real estate development. Both are facing possible criminal charges as well. Trump has no idea about notions like "soft power" etc . his thinking processes are way too one dimensional. See also his allegiance in continued post.

    maybe...
    >> the Iran demonstrations were a social media inspired spontaneous outcome of a very unhappy population. Trump jumped to their support way too soon, Prematurely calling a meeting in the UN and now has to back peddle ( which he seems to do with regular frequency) His Islamophobia was countered by his hatred for the Iranian leadership. Not to mention his racist and narcissistic desire to eradicate any record of Obama achievement.

    The Iran nuke deal needed pressure applied and he thought that a popular uprising in Iran may provide the answer to a dilemma that is very similar to the NK dilemma. That being Countries with a hatred of Trump ( USA) developing nuke tipped weapons aimed at Trump (USA.)

    even as we discuss, nations that can develop nukes will being doing so or at the very least planning to as trump ( as you have suggested) has proved that the USA is essentially powerless to stop them using Trumps Fire and Fury approach.

    China and Russia both would have accelerated their nuke programs more or less as soon as Trump was inaugurated. Evidence of such can be seen over the Urals in Russia for example. (Ruthenium-106 currently in the air over most of Europe)

    Even long term allies such as UK, France, Germany, Australia, etc may be developing contingency plans for if Trump really goes rogue.

    maybe...
    >>Trumps NK approach was a monumental failure. Not only has he empowered NK into achieving nuke leverage he is significantly threatening the loss of a major economic and strategic ally in the South. The huge and unpopular Humphries military base development under way is one of the cards the South Korean government is holding. His naivety in foreign diplomacy and sheer paranoid stupidity is more the case than some Hawk conspiracy theory. IMO

    ...cntd
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    >> Trump is in himself a farce ... the rest simply follows. Although the intuitive trend he seems to be generating towards the destruction of USA leverage in global affairs appears to be as you might suggest, he is not even aware that that is what he is doing.

    >> classic example of a man who has little insight into his own behavior and the consequences thereto.

    A president who is essentially ruling by improvisation, relying on gut instinct, and is a proven pathological liar that is allowed to continue with the ongoing consent of congress in such an influential position.

    There are other things to consider.


    Allegiance
    Trump appears to have allegiance to a very old patriarchal secret men's society. Possibly an off shoot from the main private/public body. ( thus notions of deep state come to the for... perhaps)
    • This allegiance is incredibly hampered by the need to maintain absolute secrecy. (hint: Bezos recent use of the number 33)
    • The uncharacteristic back down and apology by Bannon speaks volumes of the type of leverage and intimidation being applied. Tillerson's back down ( he's a moron) was more political than Bannons IMO
    Military weapons sales
    • The sale of military weapons, munitions and other hardware have no doubt gone through the roof since Trump launched his aggressive and overly provocative campaign to stir the world up.
    • Big ticket items mainly... huge money involved. The military industrial complex (and the Gun lobby generally) are Trumps greatest fan. ( and this I am confident he actually knows and is working accordingly - possibly kick backs, secret commissions etc)

    Stock Market
    • The stock markets (including crypto currencies) are way over valued, well beyond 87 and mortgage holders are in a precarious position. All adds up to a potential melt down of monumental proportions.
    Climate Change
    • Must be glaringly obvious to him that the weather is deteriorating seriously.
    • He has failed to offer any public condolences to the families of people killed in the massive landslide in California (now 19(?)), nor offered any support what so ever. ( As far as I am aware of)
    • Puerto Rico is till predominantly crippled with huge social and governance issues. Ignored by Trump
    • He has made jokes about the cold snap the Northern hemisphere is enduring. (12 deaths attributed as of 3-Jan-2018 src)
    ... and more no doubt

    Summary:
    Essentially Trump is a guilty and gifted child caught up in the deadly machinations of adults and unprecedented and incredible environmental circumstances .
    He is in a sandpit so deep and complex he hasn't a hope in hell of maintaining any coherent strategy. He owes too many people too many favors and can't possibly keep every one happy, even though he tries to do so.
    He is a typical shadow boxer who picks a fight with every nation he encounters. mainly because he knows no other way to do a "deal".

    He only has to push the Taiwan button with China and it will be all for it.... IMO
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  16. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42679187

    Is it fair to think that the standards of this woman in the UK are probably similar to those of brother Trump?

    Just a coincidence?

    We have the sequence of message followed by denial followed by "apology". Sound familiar?
     
  17. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    I know that this is the way how it is presented in the globalist media. So, my explanation is a quite speculative, hypothetical one.

    But let's summarize the logic of my explanation. Based on his promises during the election campaign, some people including me have interpreted all this as Trump being a sort of isolationist. Roughly, Ron Paul light on this question. (Iceaura heavily objected, but this seemed to be based on his/her ideology, where Trump is an evil fascist, not on facts (at least I have not seen yet enough evidence.)

    According to liberal media, he behaves in a completely stupid way, but the result is nonetheless an almost ideal one in the light of the aims of an isolationist. As much as a Ron Paul could have hoped to reach, and probably even more because Ron Paul would have probably reached nothing against a deep state fighting him. All these successes from an isolationist point of view are unexpected side effects of completely stupid actions of a guy who has presented himself as an isolationist? Sorry, unexpected side effects usually do the opposite of what a stupid guy wants to reach. And it repeats the pattern we have seen in the election campaign: He was doing seemingly completely stupid things but nonetheless won the elections.

    Just to add another example of the same techniques, with the same success, in the question of relations with Russia.

    The claimed gas attack in Syria. This was standard tested procedure, repetition of what Obama has done 2013, who has, nonetheless, reached a result - Assad has given away his chemical weapons. What has Trump done? He has followed the same globalist rhetorics, and actually done even more than they wanted to do (except some extremists like Clinton) - he has really bombed a Syrian airbase. That was enough to satisfy the extremists, he even became "really the president" or so for some of them. And it was so much that after this he was not pressured to do more. While the CIA continues to play its own game there, the official policy of the US in Syria is now quite adequate. The Russians openly attack what the CIA is doing, presenting proofs for this, but Trump does not have to care about this. Another case of the stupidity of the globalists in the CIA - they are happy to be able to do yet what they want, and do it, presenting themselves being more powerful than Trump. But given how the Russians use it in informational warfare, and how Trump ignores this, the result is more harmful to the globalists than if the CIA would do nothing.

    Then, the game with the Iraq Kurds. Support for the referendum - supporting something which was an old US hawks dream, namely an independent Kurdistan, which would be hated by all neighbors and therefore completely dependent on US/Israel support. In this way, he was creating problems with Erdogan. Again, a completely stupid over-exaggeration of what Obama has done, who nonetheless tried to find a compromise. But, then, after the declaration of independence, he left the Kurds without support. Which heavily damaged the hawkish Kurdistan project. Not only that the Iraq forces (more accurately, their Iranian supporters) have taken back Kirkuk, which is the only economically interesting region there. The Kurds have learned a lesson - the US will betray you. And this lesson will be learned by other people too. The globalists projects lie in ruins, the Kurds damaged and frustrated, thinking about switching sides, ISIS destroyed. And all this despite the point that the CIA was doing there their own policy - namely, supporting the Kurdish referendum with all their means available. The result is ideal for the isolationist point of view. The US involvement in Iraq's Kurdistan is dead, even the globalists would be unable to revive it if they take power. (Compare with how much Ron Paul could have harmed it - he would not have supported, by any means, the referendum. So, the Kurds would have known before that the US will not support them. So they would not feel stubbed in the back - and would probably reestablish connections with a globalist successor of Ron Paul.)

    The game with the Russian embassies. Given the Russiagate attack against Trump, Trump played nice with the attackers and allowed some quite demonstrative but stupid actions against Russian consulates. The result was a formally (but not really) symmetric Russian answer: Once the Russian diplomatic personnel in the US is reduced, ok, let's reduce the US diplomatic personnel in Russia, "symmetrically", to the same size. Ok, before this the US personnel in Russia was much more than the Russians in the US, but so what? Bad luck for the US. Or, more accurate, bad luck for the globalists, because US embassies everywhere, and in particular in Russia, are important bases for hybrid warfare and regime change attempts, while the Russians were simply spies (as all diplomats everywhere).

    The next step of the same game is new anti-Russian sanctions. Their target: Russian offshore money in the US or US-controlled offshores. No, the owners are not Putin's friends. Putin's friends have already been sanctioned long ago, by Obama (Clinton - Magnitsky Act). These are Russian oligarchs which are neutral. The Russian answer is very asymmetric, it is an offer for them to transfer their offshore capital home, to protect it from sanctions, with no penalty for having put all these money offshore in mostly illegal ways. Europe is happy too because they are the alternative for those Russian oligarchs who don't want to transfer back to Russia all their US-endangered offshore money. This is a partial exception to the rule, because Trump, as an isolationist, would love to see Russian money remaining invested in the US. But, ok, in this case, we cannot blame Trump. This is an example of the second type - globalists reacting in a really stupid way, harming, in effect, themselves.

    So, I think that it is Trump's "stupidity" which is the fake news here.

    Let's look at the advantages of a faked stupidity. You present the enemy a way to attack you, at a place where the attack is not dangerous. He is, last but not least, the experienced media guy who knows how to play this game, as proven during the elections. The enemy is unable to create a consistent attack direction because if an attack becomes dangerous he can switch sides in the official rhetorics without a necessity of really doing something in favor of the enemy. It gives him what is in German satirically named "Jagdschein" (hunting permit), referring to an official document which tells that you are insane, which protects you from legal responsibility for what you do: He can say today one thing, and tomorrow do something completely different, and everybody says "so what, this was what you had to expect".

    The Trump supporters will not object to this strategy, because what is important for them (freedom of speech against political correctness) allows you to say very different things, and it is much more important that Trump says once the forbidden thought the Trump supporter wants to be able to say openly than that he also says a lot of things he does not really care about. This is, in fact, another type of diversity - diversity of politically incorrect opinions - which seems finally more important than the "diversity" bounded by political correctness.

    The enemies of Trump, the globalists, have not yet found a weapon against this strategy, and harm themselves. The international elites recognize this. This picture is, in particular, not my own idea, but proposed independently from different international analytics I value highly. So, those of the international elites who understand the strategy will play along and cooperate with Trump, not necessarily openly, recognizing that "fighting" Trump will be fine with him as far as what is attacked is, in reality, the globalist agenda. The Russians, in particular, have to attack the US to support him against the "Russiagate" line of attack. But what they really attack is what the CIA is doing, and reducing the embassies, which are power centers of the globalists. Poland, which has "supported" the Ukrainian Bandera fascists in Obama time, now openly fights them (remembering their anti-Polish mass murder during WW II) and simply no longer bother what the globalists think about Ukraine as a useful tool against Russia. The Chinese almost openly play the game, supporting Trump with some international success as long as it costs nothing. They are happy with Trump. Even the former vasalls feel free to openly attack Trump, following the globalist line - but this can easily turn into becoming anti-American, simply because one can sell fighting against what one hated at Obama time as fighting against Trump: Trump overexaggerates the Obama line, to a level that you have to fight against it if you want to pretend you follow the interests of your own nation, and, given that one has to attack only Trump, not America, this is not that dangerous as it was in Obama time. And nobody really objects against the US becoming isolationist, except those paid by the US, who are afraid that the payments stop. If they stop, they will search for other, more reliable bankrollers, and find them.
     
  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    I always like these explanations where one random dude on the internet figures out what nobody else in the world can, which is why the enlightened truth, in these fancies, is always quite speculative and hypothetical.

    While the rest of us argue over what evident scraps mean, clearing the table to replace it all with make-believe just isn't productive.

    Like the bit I do about Putin being a closet case. Yeah, actually I think he is, but how much time am I going to spend on speculative, hypothetical fantasies about Vladdie the Queer Impaler? It helps to make the note when he says stuff one would only say with such manner of exposure is according to their own experiential knowledge. I mean, maybe that's just the dirty secret; maybe the real Russian collusion is the Pizzagate trafficking ring shipping little boys to Putin's Sochi estate for weekend romps.

    But in the end, all your fantasizing is merely propaganda for the suicide pact:

    Yes, we know. Antisocials want society itself to be antisocial. You're hardly revealing any special secret. We've long known supremacists want antisocial socialization.

    To the other, there is nothing quite like seeing yet another conservative give away the game.

    If you weren't so naïve about American history and people, then you wouldn't have wasted your time on those fifteen hundred words of nonsense.

    To the other, if you weren't so antisocial, then you wouldn't have wasted your time on those fifteen hundred words of nonsense.

    Think of it this way: While you rant through your Puti-Toots fan fiction, American conservatives are soon going to need to wrap their heads around the fact that Donald Trump appears to be capitalizing on what our right wing formerly would have described as Russian "anchor babies" when accusing "Mexican" migrants of "birth tourism". At one point, we would have wondered how they were going to deal with the contradiction. We're far enough along in this process, domestically, that only the experientially naïve or educationally impaired are the only ones left genuinely grappling with the question; conservatives don't care because their complaints were more neurotic than honest to begin with. One could nearly run an office pool on what excuses we will hear from Republicans; a drinking game based on stupid shit Trump supporters say in that back and forth might well be dangerous.

    The idea that people who have spent the last thirty years dumbing themselves down are actually part of some complicated, intricate conspiracy openly betraying their country is, presently, laughable. Such extraordinary notions as you propose are well and fine for wine and cheese speculation. Meanwhile, this many years on, conservatives apparently still fail, even by your fantasy, to understand the difference between what people are and what they choose. It is entirely possible to blame Abramism in some context, for the symbols and arrangements thereof handed down through generations, and our American relationship thereunto, but at some point it is worth observing that logical dysfunction in conservatism transcends religions, nations, and cultures. That is to say, some days we must admit that stupid is as stupid does.
     
  19. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    1.) Fighting political correctness is not fighting for an antisocial society. It is fighting for free speech against Newspeak of the modern Big Brother. As a libertarian, I defend absolute freedom of speech, thus, even for antisocial people the freedom to tell antisocial things. But that does not mean that I support such speech.
    2.) I do not propose any conspiracy. All that I propose is a hypothesis about what Trump is doing. A single man does not need to conspire.
    3.) I'm not in favor of American conservatives, I couldn't care less about what they like. I consider the US as the most dangerous, most evil country in the world, and whatever weakens this empire of evil is good, and increases the chances of survival of mankind. And whoever weakens it most has my support. Actually this is Trump, but in this case, I support the liberal media which have made a big scandal out of nothing. This was the best thing they could have done in this situation to harm the US world rule as much as possible.
     
  20. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Just a few points...
    I feel it is important, as you have implied you have done, to take note of an "innocent assessment" with out the significant urge to delve deeper and speculate about guilty conspiracy. In other words initially look at the facts carefully with the view of innocence until proven guilty.

    What I mean by this is not about the guilt of Trump or deep state or what ever but the reality of events and circumstance that leads to an assessment. The danger being building a story that is pure speculation based on pseudo speculation.

    Example:
    (correct me if I am wrong)
    • The CIA never does nothing.
    • With over 20,000 employees of some of the brightest and intelligent people in the USA with access to the most sophisticated technology in the world, they are not to be underestimated.
    • Fact: The CIA would have an extensive working profile on the POTUS as they would have on PUTIN or any world leader they have to deal with. ( all of them most likely)
    • Fact: The CIA primary duty is to report to the POTUS and his cabinet.
    • Fact: The CIA primary loyalty is to the USA as a whole including it's constitution which transcends it's loyalty to the POTUS.
    • Fact: The CIA do not rely on the news media, liberal or other, for their intelligence.

    Assessment ( innocent):
    If they had found that Trump was acting in any way "Manchurian" or evidence was found of black mail etc their loyalty to the USA Constitution would be invoked and procedures and processes would be also invoked.
    These procedures including the FBI Russian interference investigation and other are an outcome of FBI and CIA concerns and would not be taking place with out them. ( N.B. Knowing so is not the same as proving so.)

    The bottom line is that the CIA is a professional organization that only makes mistakes when it's own procedures, checks and balances etc are not followed correctly. ( human element)

    If we assume that the CIA is functioning correctly then the POTUS is simply a dill that has got in over his head.
    Having discussions with Russia during the campaign and later, with out criminal intent would mean what?
    If you have ever studied people who suffer from various mental health issues you would realize that often they rely more on intuitively derived impulse than on sound rational argument. That is to say they run on the fly, improvise more often and fail to look forward to the consequences of their actions. Typically a paranoid schizophrenic, for example, will often display purely intuitive fear based behavior with little regard to reason or rational leading inevitably to isolation from a society that often demands a minimum of reason, rational judgement and political correctness ( tact, diplomacy) to function.

    In other words Trumps isolationism trend is reinforced by his own predilection to personal isolation.

    He is the elephant in the room and he is essentially standing alone and isolated by his own mental health issues.

    Commonly people with major mental health issues are quarantined/ostracized from society because of the unsettling chaos and disturbance they propagate. ( if you have ever lived with a paranoid schizophrenic that you had to care for (me: brother 3 years) you would know exactly what I mean - Chaos at every turn)

    I might add that the time between suspicion of mental health issues to actually getting treatment can often be torturous, infectious, extremely emotionally painful, very damaging to all concerned and one that can be many years in process.


    Summary:
    Whist there may be little evidence of criminal intent, Manchurian or blackmail there is ample evidence of mental health issues regards Trump.
    CIA dilemma:
    Essentially the CIA are left with a dilemma. Proving a mental health problem is not their job, yet they are dependent on a POTUS that acts "rationally" all the time.

    I think you are delving to deeply and failing to consider the more "innocent" assessments in a proper light. ( I am also guilty of doing so, so you are not alone

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    )

    too sophisticated in assessment IMO

    Trump sees gagging child on Fox news, has a rare attack of empathy and is teased by the idea that as POTUS he may be able to do something.
    Someone in the "military" with info from the CIA, suggests a counter strike and he thinks... "why not?" and agrees to launch a missile attack on an airbase (Shayrat). It serves his loose agenda for credibility and allows him to start throwing his weight around on the global stage. (He was in a meeting with the Chinese President Xi Jinping, no less, yes?)

    Note the previous botched and failed attempt in Yemen to steal intelligence that cost US lives also cost Trump's military leadership credibility.

    The chaos that Trump is generating is only a reflection of the chaos in his head....
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    You would also notice that there are reports that Trump is withdrawing from his job, slowly minimizing his executive time. If those reports are true and not fake news, I would speculate that it wont be long and his function as POTUS will be in title only, a mere figure head. Essentially placing article 25 on himself.

    Abandoning his planned trip to the UK is very telling...
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    23,328
    Schmelzer
    What I believe you are theorizing is in fact an intuitive understanding of an intuitive derived trend, akin to the study of "destiny" or some other occult type notion. You are looking at intuition in action and claiming deliberate conspiracy.
    Intuitively one could suggest that the entire world is on a path to the destruction of all human existence, intuitively all paths lead to the same destination, climate change, POTUS, Islamic self destruction... the rise of anarchy and chaos....
    You may be correct but at least realize the context of your hypothesis ....perhaps.
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Expanding the US military budget and presence globally - that's what you are talking about?
    Or was it the proposed tax breaks and incentives for global investment by US based corporate interests, and US investment by global investment, that caught your eye.
    Maybe it was the expansion of resource extraction for export - the Keystone Pipeline, offshore drilling, that kind of thing.
    Maybe it was picking fights with the likes of North Korea.
    Funny way to isolate the place, though - so very clever it makes no sense.
    Almost all the US media is rightwing and corporate and authoritarian in basic outlook. What "liberal media" are you talking about?
    You present an illusion of two choices: Trump is stupid, Trump is deeply committed to some kind of political ideology and secretly furthering it.
    Neither one is supported by common events and circumstances.
    Trump is clearly clever in some ways (although sliding into senility of some kind as he ages). But Trump has no farsighted or thoughtful ideology - of any kind, isolationist or globalist or any other. He's reactionary, and always has been. He's in it for money and ego, and always has been. He doesn't read, learn, or develop ideology. He has no interest in such matters, no ideological goals, and never has had any.
    There are essentially no supporters of Trump who value freedom of speech, or regard it as important. And "political correctness" in that context is a standard US fascist propaganda term - a common feature of your posting. You get your entire worldview from a few US professional agitprop outfits, apparently.
    That's your only example, actually. And that is completely explained by Trump's various financial dealings and personal corruption involving Russia, coupled with Putin's strong interest in weakening the US and diminishing its interference with the Russian oligarchy. Putin wishes the US to be more isolated from Putin's sphere of ambition, and Trump - because he lacks ideology, or philosophical grounding of any kind - is a manipulable tool of anyone willing and able to flatter and finance him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
    Quantum Quack likes this.
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