Shalom When I look at the current situation in Israel , it facinates me how in the western world for a large part the opinions are formed before actual knowledge of the situation is present . I think this is for a large part due to a biased concept , dealing in essence with religious appearance . Ofcourse both political systems have a strong tie (be it negative or positive) with religion , but it seems that the opinions are formed directly as religion makes contact with the perception of the situation . The obvious thing is that religion overshadows the Palestinian case , religion becomes involved in the martyrdom thus suicide-bombings , the most obvious opposers are religious fundamentalists , islamism implies all this and more . The zionist state however , appears to have an approach that doesnt remind the west of hardly any religious ties , but can function as rather identifying with the western values of democracy , legislation , conventionality and such . I believe this is exactly what is the essential former of opinion when it comes to the western perspective . This brings me in wondering about the following : What if islamism as it is today , would have evolved as a secular resistance movement , without referring to G-d , without suicide bombings , without the want for the islamic state but the democratic state and such . What if opposing to this would be evolved a non-secular highly orthodox Israel ? Would that change the very first basics of the average western perspective ? Would there be a shift of sympathy based on identification with these common values ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Yk-sZ
I don't think that Islam, Zionized would be a secular, democratic, system. I think that since so many Jews lived in the West ie. Europe they were exposed to these ideas. But the Arabian people's didn't have that exposure to those ideas. For Arabs in the early 20th century they only really had the notion of Turkish Islamic state. So they just took a different course than Judaism.
i don't think your looking at the situation right. both sides of the coin have religion as a major aspect in their fight. what makes the palistinians worse in the eyes of westren civilization isn't religion but how the extremists in the religion conduct themselves and push their ideas onto the world. by saying that it is a zionist state you are automatically linking it with religion because zionism is a part of the jewish religion. they believe in the ideals of democracy which has given them a strong ally in the United States. but its not that which makes people believe in their cause. there are already many islamic states, they don't want a new one they just want to ride the world of a jewish one. but i believe you are right about one thing. if the palistinians didn't use such drastic ways of trying to get their point across such as suicide bombers they would be meet with more support even with their twisted ideas.
by saying that it is a zionist state you are automatically linking it with religion because zionism is a part of the jewish religion. That is supposed to be a joke or what? Zionism has no routes in the Torah, pure Zionists reject the Torah. Zionism is like Communism, or Democracy, Fascism,etc. It's a political philosopohy. Zionism is a European Jew creatation anyways.
thank god someone is still using their brainPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! missconception alert! "western" values? first define this "west", is it defined geographically? on the bases of the values which it pretends to hold...ney...created? when the Prophets Abraham, Issa, and Mohamed were laying down, defining, teaching and living by the values stated above, the "west" was inhabited by hairy oiks still living in pigshit. stop hijaking these values and associating them with the "west" ie caucassians. stop it. I've got the flu. so i'm gonna read the rest laterPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! as a muslim, I don't recognise the term "islamism" it is another non meaning nonsensical phrase banded about in the media, it is not an ideology, there is Islam, that's it. Yes there are variations in interpretations, but t alocate names to them is wrong. secular islamism? that's an oxymoron
what makes the Palastinians worse in the eyes of the west is the west views everything through "fox news" and the like. The west's eyes have glaucoma, and their vison is seriuosly impared. time for some eye surgery.
Any fanaticism (politic, religious, etc.) is indeed wrong, because is assuming a priori a right to judge everybody else through his doctrine. From political point of view, the most fanatics were acting in the name of "others", and usually the more "human" they sounded, the more cruel they accted. From religious point of view, it is interesting that otherwise any monoteistic religion is looking to the same God, they are fighting in a idiotic manner between them. Is like a group of primitive tribes, around a mount; from their individual perspective, the mount looks different, but in reality is is the same. The problem reside not so much with either religions or politics, but with inherent human stupidity, and arogance.
Salaam Yitzhak I think the resistance would need moderation of religion , because it is becoming far to obvious and easy for the ignorant outsider to judge religion as cause . I believe political Islam as Hamas and Islamic Jihad present isnt the the best path to take when it comes to "marketing" the resistance amongst fellow Arabs and fellow Muslims . Islamic Unification is needed , and you cant compromize with so many through an extremist symbol of the religion . But I do see surprisingly a zionist-religious extremism coming up in Israel , they have been turning more and more to religion since the state was established , perhaps in the future this evolves into a more orthodox Jewish state . Dont think so , there would plenty other identification-possibilities , but at least they wouldnt be able to blame it all on religion as they try to do all the time .... Nico I dont think so either , but I thing the point was more about what would happen if it was so , maybe lets say in 50 years from now ? Woe Not really Woe still religion obviousuly when we speak of people IN the religion with their extreme ideas (ideas is the key word here) . So where's the messiah then ? Return to Zion is part of the relgiion , not this political movement called Zionism . Are you seriously equalizing motive for why peoples identify and why politicians do ? lol I think the Mizrahim who were there should be able to have any Jewish state they want , however this israel is EUROPEAN . Thats not a Jewish state , thats colonizing a region .... And what are their twisted Ideas ? majority of the Palestinian peoples are not religious fundamental ........ Buhd You're correct bro ...... What other term should be used for peoples who wish to establish such states as the peoples we refer to ? PS : we can also just let it be western semantics are a joke their biased , racist and deal with superiority complexes .....o and there are no logics to be found either . I suggest brain surgery I believe the idea is a secular resistance movement replacing the Islamists , sure we have Fatah but they're quite the joke these days , ok they are catching up a bit with the Al Aqsa Brigades , but even they are tomuch identifying Islamically as they make assaults . cornelius They would also fight amongst eachother if they would all have the same religion , as religion isnt the cause for their struggle , colonization is . arrogance and stupidity are always present , but I think far before the Palestinians had time to be arrogant and stupied , they got chased out of their homes by colonists .
Do any of you know where it says in the Torah that the people of Israel could only ge back when the second coming of the messiah happens. I need to ask a rabbi! I need the passage and the quote! Thank you!And I think that all supporters of Israel on religious grounds should read this: http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/judaism_v_zionism.cfm
