is life about the survival of the fittest chemistry?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by globali, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    "Intrinsic" and "property" are closely related. A thing's properties are intrinsic to the thing. "Intrinsic properties" would be redundant.
    That would be a different property called "phase". All phases can have the same mass.
     
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    No.
    Phases are properties of aggregate matter.
    A single molecule of water is neither solid, liquid nor gaseous. The phase, as SSB mentions, is a description of how particles interact.
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Solids and liquids have different types of mass.
    And mass is intrinsic.
    So each molecule has an intrinsic mass, but the type of mass it has depends on whether it is in a solid or a liquid - and that particular type of mass is the only physicality the molecule possesses.
    Am I following so far?
    So at high speeds an accelerated material object is gaining matter - there is more matter in an accelerated rock than it started with.
     
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Matter Matter exists in various states(also known as phases) from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter

    Thanks for the correction

    Noooooo it gains energy from its rest mass
    *****
    Rest mass (physics), the mass of a body as measured when the body is at rest, but it is relative to an observer who is moving or not, an inherent property of the body. All matter, such as any object, has some rest mass. Energy, such as light or kinetic energy (the energy of a moving object) has no rest mass because it causes no change in spacetime in a frozen time frame. However, energy affects mass while time passes; therefore, it affects spacetime, so it has mass.[1]

    https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rest_mass

    My enlargement of the text

    *****

    So no matter gain but mass in the form of kinetic energy

    Thanks again

    Coffee and lunch time

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  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    What does the definition of properties and mass and matter have to do with the thread topic?
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    So mass does not have physicality and is not the amount of matter present.
     
  10. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Mass has physicality

    But as per my post #204 scientists also refer to kinetic energy due to the object moving as mass also

    If the object is at rest, say at the top of a hill, it has rest potential energy which does not have mass

    This feeds into why objects with mass cannot travel faster than light

    The faster the object moves the more mass it gains, requiring more energy to accelerate it faster until, in a positive feedback, it starts to have a mass equal to the mass of the Universe, which would require all the energy contained in (in the rest mass?) of the Universe to accelerate it faster

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  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Does that mass have physicality?
     
  12. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Apparently not

    But as noted post #204

    https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rest_mass

    As SCIENTISTS call the kinetic energy gained by a moving mass MASS

    as per

    Relativity tells us that energy and mass are interchangeable

    http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae161.cfm

    I will bow to their far superior knowledge and their definitions

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    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I'll try again:
    Does the calculated and measured mass of a moving object have physicality?
     
  14. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    The matter has physicality

    Gained mass is the kinetic energy

    Together they make up the calculated measured mass

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  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    So mass is not the amount of matter present, and it's the matter - not the mass - that has physicality in a moving object.

    Around here, we might remind ourselves that all atoms, molecules, etc, in any physical object, are in motion. Also that this motion changes with the temperature - the mass of an object increases a bit when its temperature rises.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Or is it the effect of motion on matter? Mass an emergent property of force in a moving object?
    i.e. a relative property from the observer's perspective?
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    https://www.mansfieldct.org/Schools/MMS/staff/hand/atomsheat.htm

    Mass an emergent property of force in a moving object?

    Part of the total MASS of a moving lump of matter is the kinetic energy (kinetic energy interchangeable with mass) it gained when a force was applied to make it move

    Not force. Force is not MASS

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  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    You're link ignores the relativistic corrections to Newtonian physics, which are of course very, very small at the relevant speeds and accelerations.
    But not zero.

    Meanwhile, my latest attempt to follow this "physicality" concept that excludes temperature, volume, shape, etc, was this:
    How'm I doing?
     
  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Matter has a physicality yes

    Mass is the amount of matter present so by default has physicality

    At speed kinetic energy adds mass to the mass without adding matter or physicality

    How am I doing?

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  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    You are in contradiction. Mass is not the amount of matter present in a moving object, and all objects are moving.
    And there appears to be no meaning associated with your term "physicality".
     
  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Pray tell what it is

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  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    If a photon has zero rest-mass, but acquires mass from its momentum alone, does it suggest that mass is a form of translated resistance? The greater the resistance the greater the mass, which in turn would suggest that the phenomenon of mass is related to size as well?
     
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Well, an electron is a single subatomic particle - an example of a single, indivisible bit of matter.

    So is a proton - a single subatomic particle - an example of a single, indivisible bit of matter.

    Yet the proton masses 1836 times the electron.

    So, mass is not directly tied to amount of matter.

    And let's be clear: A proton is not comprised of 1,836 units of whatever makes up electrons. A proton's mass and an electron's mass is fundamental. They are fundamental subatomic particles.
     

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