Is it wrong to have sex for fun, knowing it might possibly lead to an abortion?

My experience as a midwife, stress MY experience only so hardly representative, from patients I have chatted with, your statement is just not so

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In what way? They think about potential outcomes more, or less, than that?

 

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You certainly know what I mean.

Is it logical, needed, or even moral to apply extremely unfortunate tragic solutions needed only in rare circumstances to all circumstances everywhere at every time?

Why multiply a tragic thing beyond what is needed?

Would you really do this or recommend this in other medical situations?

 

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Basically my sense is they enjoy sex and only have some distant connection in the background about the details of the likelihood of the girl becoming pregnant

Don't get me incorrect. Some couples are completely ignorant about sex leading to pregnancy and some are highly trained, up to knowing the fine details ie midwives (yes female midwives, and highly religious ones, with their religion having a, what I would call, extreme position about sex / pregnancy outside of marriage) become pregnant outside of marriage

Seems like the pleasure of sex overrides dogma

Outside of my ex profession I also follow a group of people who have, for the most part, a great love for their children born out of wedlock, with the father not staying around

That's another story

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No. It is much better to let the woman decide what is best for herself and the life she is carrying, rather than have government bureaucrats decide for her, thinking the bureaucrat knows better in all circumstances everywhere at every time.

Exactly. Let her decide.

Would I really do what? Recommend they get an abortion? I listed three cases above. In two, the women got abortions. In all three cases, I am very glad it was up to them, and that they had the freedom to make that decision.

 

one wonders
is anxiety a form of
non compos mentis

 

But that’s not your original question or the thread topic. You’re not asking if abortion is immoral, you’re asking if it’s wrong to have sex for fun knowing it might result in an abortion.

Two different things.

 

And who shall be the judge on the question of what constitutes a tragedy or not? Do you think the person facing the tragedy is in the best position to judge, or do you think someone else is better qualified and has a better moral foundation? Do you think you have the moral standing and right to judge someone else's predicament, without knowing any of the situation?

 

Well, who is better at judging the motives of a murderer? The murderer herself, or someone outside the circumstances, other than the murderer?

Or, are we supposed to justify the choices of any murderer, just because they know the circumstances better than anyone else?

Is a judge now even immoral for judging a murderer?

 

Who would the murderer be in this case? Because you just listed several cases in which you agreed abortion is an option. Why is it OK to "murder" in one case but not another?

Again, I think you've run into one of the basic conflicts of your position. It is OK to "murder" when you say it's OK, but not OK when you think it's not. But it's not your body; it's hers. And if you can make that decision on when it's OK to "murder" she certainly can.

 

The baby is alive inside her body as a separate human life. And please don’t try and tell me the baby is a kidney or like some other organ.

The baby is not her body. Any abortionist knows this!

Usually, most people who value human life, try to and tend towards protecting innocent life as much as possible. And so we see the taking of innocent life as only being justified rarely and only under extreme circumstances of necessity, when there is no other way.

Why is that wrong?

 

It is a human life; it is not a separate human life since it can't live on its own.

Right. Her body is supporting it.

It's not. I would try to talk any woman out of getting an abortion (outside of extreme cases like those listed above.) But since there ARE cases where it is better for everyone (_including_ any potential baby) then that decision has to be up to the woman.

You have already agreed that there are cases where it's OK to have an abortion. (To use your phraseology, to rip a living baby out of a mother and murder it.) Given that, it's hard to square your inflammatory rhetoric with something that you have already agreed is OK in some cases. Unless you see yourself as a murderer, that is.

 

Worth repeating:
As bill says: You acknowledge there is a line between when it's OK to end a life and when it's not, it's just a matter of establishing where that line is.

I think you won't find a person on the planet that disagrees with that.

So this is really a matter of fine-tuning.

Just wanted to get that for the record.

 

All of the abortion threads should be pooled into one thread. Same answers, different thread. Sigh

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James R re-wrote my thread topic to what he wanted it to say. It was taken out of my hands.

He has the power!

My original concept was going to revolve around my own brother Kevin, who died from contracting AIDS from a sexual partner.

But then people started taking it a different way, so I basically went down their path with them.

At least, that is how I remember it?

 

Yes, I regard that as an accurate description of the vast majority of abortions that are performed today.

Most are not of necessity, and so are deliberate unnecessary murders of innocents.

Surely you are aware that babies are ripped apart alive inside their own mother’s womb, ripped apart alive limb from limb, dismembered, beheaded alive at times, their head crushed, to kill them, at other times.

You must know this, Right?

And you have no problem with killing babies with that method, for any reason whatsoever, Right?

My description is quite accurate!

 

I'm so sorry to hear about your brother.

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Yea, it's just one of those polarizing topics that always seems to go in circles.

 

God made sex fun
God doesnt make mistakes

why do conservative Christians keep saying God made a mistake by making sex fun ?
they are insulting God

 

i think you are obsessing about your own sense of loss of godly power.

i think it is probably attached to the death of your brother.

you are acting out a process of transference

of guilt proxy
you feel helpless about your brother so you need to assert that helplessness on to something else where you can morally position yourself to feel ok about other people being bigger nasty monsters than how you feel about yourself inside.

that is normal !
that is ok !
you must talk to a professional therapist about your feelings.
such unresolved emotional problems cause drug addiction, eating disorders, cutting, self harm etc...
violent outburst against close personal relationships.

your obsession in the bloody death aspect is an addiction
you need to avert that and manage it and seek therapy if you wish to maintain your intellectual mind.

you are engaging in a lost cause of moral battle that you will not win
when you think you have won, you have just stabbed yourself again in the heart.
this is an addictive process
do not become addicted to it.
get professional therapy.

 

That's right. Sex is fun.