Co-Determinism and the Reality of Free Will

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Quantum Quack, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    well done.... and....
     
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  3. river

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    Agreed . Without stability , nothing can form . DNA included .

    But the thing about Life is that it forms an energy which forms intelligence .
     
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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    there are a few answers available to the puzzle and you have already provided one of them.... thanks...
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    IMO, Life forms a demand for energy and greater energy collecting efficiency along with complexity.
    Witness a Sunflower's heliotropism in addition to utilizing the mathematical Fibonacci Sequence in its seed distribution.

    Trees use a fractal leaf distribution to maximize its light gathering abilities for photosynthesis and growth energy.
    Note; this is a passive growth function in stationary biology. Pretty clever, no?
    Is it intelligent? No. Is it quasi-intelligent? Yes.

    Energy merely satisfies physical needs and while brains do use a lot of energy, the energy is only used in building brain tissue and during the act of thinking, aka. information processing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  8. river

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    Not a demand for energy , but what is necessary for life to manifest .
     
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  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    just to extend that point, energy can be codified, encrypted with data and information....
    That said, the Cosmic Background radiation (CBR) we are constantly surrounded by, could be a significant source of deterministic influences...

    another thing life including human, has evolved to learn from and adapt to.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The logical law of "Necessity and Sufficiency"........

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  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, and I am always amazed at the assertion that the universe is fine tuned for life on earth.
    Truth is that life on earth is fine tuned to earth and the universe.

    IMO, that supports the notion that evolution and natural selection are deterministic processes. Living organisms are proof of gradual unintentional adaptation to specific environments, where they find a comfortable survival niche.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  12. river

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    Prove your logic .
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Being in the purple region is sufficient for being in A, but not necessary.
    Being in A is necessary for being in the purple region, but not sufficient.
    Being in A and being in B is necessary and sufficient for being in the purple region.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_and_sufficiency
     
  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    like I stated and have been stating for so many pages and so many posts...
    Universal predetermination has evolved humans to have the ability to learn the ability to self determine......
    I am glad that you finally worked it out....
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    A copy and paste is not you explaining...especially the relevance...
    Q: Who or what determines the necessity or sufficiency?
    A:
    Necessity is a subjective determination by humans.
    Sufficiency like wise...
    This is due to our ignorance of universal nature, which is still quite profound. ( we have only scratched the surface so to speak.)
    Example:
    Why did humans evolve a hand with 4 fingers and a thumb when 3 fingers and a thumb would suffice?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    HUHH.????........

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  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I rather present the official reference entry than be called on a trivial detail.
    Is copy and paste of a link too much work? It is sufficient to enter the site which gives great detail in the definition and uses of universal logic.
    Oh, that is not even wrong! Widen your horizons. Don't fall into the human semantics trap. All interactions are subjective to the objects in question. The objective rules of logical processing of information are universal. Nothing is exempt.
    I would suggest you give the logic a second reading to see the inevitable truth of that statement and its relevance in the processing of physically relative natural values and functions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  18. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Huh!????
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Three fingers would not suffice. Five do.
    You'll need to go back a while in the evolution of mammals. Five fingers are a reduction in original number of digits and proved to be sufficient for precise eye-hand control.
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2014/08/01/how-did-you-get-five-fingers/
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I guess you're not a bookkeeper.
     
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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  22. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Sure... but the thang is... of course its a deterministic universe an everthang is predetermined… but for free will an determinism to be compatible you need co-determinism = compatibilism… in which you ignore everthang that predetermined how you will thank an act… this way you can look at the thouts you have as the beginnin of you’r personal casual-chain which you can then label "free-will".!!!

    Understandin QQ’s diagram is the key to it all.!!!
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I understand QQ perspective. I used to think the same way. I just knew I had free will, how could I not have?
    We have ability to choose, but presence or lack of motive does not allow us to choose different than what we choose.
     

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