The Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 17, 2017.

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  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Ignorance speaks again.
    Keep counting. It's not over yet.
    And your world has no reality, but only propagandists.
    Obama reduced them. Trump increased them.
    And Trump has yet to withdraw, or even begin to attempt to withdraw - unlike Obama.
    Just vs unjust was the issue.
    Iraq was manipulated, by the US, into invading Kuwait. Saddam was of course the US choice of strongman in the first place. Justice is not "aggression" only.
    The US - especially Trump voters - harbors bigotry against the French. Trump has been appealing to such bigotries from day one. (So have all other Republican politicians, for decades now - analysts think John Kerry may have lost to W in 2004 in part because he could speak French. )
    Trump doesn't know anything about Napoleon.
    But they aren't deep - they're the shallow State.
    You don't know what's hidden, and what isn't. You don't know what's known and what isn't. That's why every time you invoke the "deep State" it's different bunch of people.
    The shallow State is not hidden. Some of Trump's business dealings (with Erdogan, say, or Russians of one kind and another) - are hidden. They are also violations of the Constitution.
    Trump, who matches your definition, is the only US government official you have not identified as part of the deep State.
    Trump's "distribution of power" in violation of the Constitution is not hidden.
     
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  3. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    I would recommend you to be careful with the choice of the actor of the president. In Ukraine, such an actor playing the president now became the president.
    No, it has a lot of reality. And I have methods to identify that reality even from quite miserable data. This is what physics have to do all the time - to develop and test hypotheses about reality based on the minor information accessible to observation.
    Trump has already started to withdraw, from Syria. Which is, in fact, actually more important.
    Wow, now Iraq's occupation of Kuwait becomes a just war. Simply because one Mafiosi asked the greater Mafiosi if he objects against his plan of robbing another country.
    So what? I know nothing about your personal conspiracy theory about the deep state?
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    ? You have several times accused me of calling you stupid - that has always been false, at the time (I never had). Keep posting like that and I won't have to - just quote you.
    You never test any of your "hypotheses" about the US against reality.
    Not yet: https://www.militarytimes.com/flash...rthern-syria-could-create-an-isis-resurgence/
    Even if he does move them out of Syria - we have only words, so far - nobody's going home - he's just finding places to deploy them that are ok with Putin. Lately he's begun renting them - to Saudi Arabia, places like that.
    You can't even identify the campaign goofyness of US talk radio. Against serious propaganda you have no chance.
    That's right.
    Less than nothing - because you believe falsehood and swindler's bs. You take Trump seriously when he talks.
    Adults should know better, frankly.
     
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  7. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    After removing the usual "you are stupid" bs, the only remaining point is this:
    We have already a lot of bases explicitly left and taken over by the Russian/Syrians. I have not cared but remember to have seen information that some of those from these bases are already in Iraq. I would not bet that they have really reached it, maybe that was simply information about them traveling toward that, but a particular base in Iraq was named.
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    So?
    Trump is happy to help Putin invade and so forth, naturally - but he's been expanding the US war effort in the Middle East and elsewhere, and handing more of it over to the CIA and various mercenaries.
    And the point that you don't reality check anything about the US.
    Don't forget that warning - it will even come in handy in Syria and Europe, where you apparently have some knowledge of the facts on the ground.
    In evaluating this, for example: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-fighters-and-families-in-detention-uncertain
     
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,069
    This man is to be taken seriously, he is the President and can draw us into WWIII, with a simple phonecall.

    Fortunately we do have a serious remedy. Impeachment, then reimbursement of illegally obtained profits, and then incarceration. It may undo some of the damage this guy has inflicted on the US reputation as an honest broker.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Not when he talks.

    Tyrants and autocrats - and the wannabes - fall by derision.
     
  11. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    5,003
    According to my sources, some important IS figures have been flown away with US helicopters toward unknown destinations, many are now in Al Tanf using more moderate flags, others are part of SDF now. And most of those contained as IS fighters are in fact simply Arabs which have made problems for the Kurds in the Arab regions. Given that there is no way to prove such claims, I have not posted much about all this.

    Anyway, the remaining Al Qaida fighters are in no way less dangerous in comparison with IS fighters. (The very point which makes the difference between a caliphate (IS) and a jihadist organization like Al Qaida is that a caliphate necessarily requires some structure in real life. Some territory, with a capital, a caliph. Without such a real-life structure, the caliphate does not exist, and if this structure is destroyed, the oaths given to the caliphate are no longer binding. It cannot go completely underground like Al Qaida. This makes a caliphate stronger once it exists, and its existence is not endangered but makes it weaker once that structure has been destroyed. The caliphate no longer exists as a territorial structure, so that those who have supported the IS are now simply jihadist fighters without a strong organization behind them. Many of them may have been even forced to join when the IS was powerful, but are not even fanatic jihadists. Those who remain jihadist fanatics will join Al Qaida (Takesh) in Idlib, which will be the next target after the region East of the Euphrates are under Syrian control.)
     
  12. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    3,864
    "You don't want to be responsible for slaughtering thousands of people, and I don't want to be responsible for destroying the Turkish economy -- and I will...History will look upon you favorably if you get this done the right and humane way. It will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don't happen. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool! I will call you later."
    -- from Trump letter to Turkey's President Erdogan

    "Our soldiers are not in harm's way, as they shouldn't be, as two countries fight over land that has nothing to do with us. And the Kurds are much safer now."
    -- Trump

    "I hope President Trump is right in his belief that Turkey's invasion of Syria is of no concern to us, abandoning the Kurds won't come back to haunt us, ISIS won't reemerge, and Iran will not fill the vacuum created by this decision."
    -- Sen. Lindsey Graham

    "Lindsey Graham would like to stay in the Middle East for the next thousand years."
    -- Trump
     
  13. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    2,046
    Source? Do you presume that all people, regardless of aptitude, should be saddled with college debt before entering the workforce, forcing them to take whatever they can get. That's pretty bad for moral and productivity. Some researchers think that work-life balance, like "flexible hours, time off when needed, and a locked-in schedule of shifts that allows workers to plan a full month, rather than a few days, in advance", is more important than wages. And if you don't presume everyone should have a college degree, how else do you imagine they don't start their work life at the bottom?

    Sure, if by "known" you mean completely out of your hat. You need to support your arguments, instead of parroting unsourced leftist talking points. If all you want to do is parrot, I can read that elsewhere, and have no need of conversing with you.

    And the evidence is in on mandated minimum wage hikes. They cut hours, benefits, and/or number of positions, or simply go out of business altogether. Claiming they maintain a differential only further exacerbates their need to pass the extra expenses on to their customers. The opposite of your claim that they can raise wages while not raising prices. You should try to avoid transparently conflicting arguments.

    Businesses to do those in response to natural competition, where their improved productivity or quality can give them a competitive advantage. But the added expense of a minimum wage hike hits all competitors equally, giving no one an advantage (unless they cut hours, benefits, and/or jobs better than others). Maybe you should reread your textbooks.

    Then maybe there should be a crackdown on predatory lending.
    Again, competition doesn't abate an added burden on all businesses without them cutting hours, benefits, and/or jobs.

    Um, taxation is still progressive.

    Lots of fantasy there.
     
  14. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Making Trump's abandonment of the Kurds even worse.
    - - - - -
    Nope. Very rich people pay similar to lower tax rates than poor people, on average, in the US.
    To people paid significantly more than subsistence level wages, sure.
    Minimum wage employees usually don't get to make that choice.
    Yep. See Elizabeth Warren's major policy recommendations.
    Not in response to you, and not when stating common knowledge.
    You don't know what a "leftist talking point" looks like compared with a simple fact, and you have not supported any claim of yours in this thread.
    Yep.
    Nope. It falls more heavily on the least productive and least competent businessmen.
    Having those businessmen who can only increase productivity by cutting wages go out of business is a benefit to everyone else.
    Being able to increase productivity without downsizing is what natural competition between businesses is all about.
    All wage floors apply to all relevant businesses equally. So having a higher one is often a good idea for everyone else.

    It would force Trump to pay his imported work force more than half scale to operate a bulldozer, for example. That would reduce his opportunities to stiff American contractors and profit from bankruptcy - he would have had to fork over more money in wages biweekly, reducing his stashes of skimmed, embezzled, and unpaid tax dollars by that amount.

    Just one illustrative example, currently in the news and thread relevant.
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,069
    Eventually, after people start to see through the psychopath's game, people begin to seriously consider the danger he represents to the Nation and start looking at the necessity for removing him from office....

    IMO, it seems even the Republicans are beginning to take Trump's narcissism seriously now. The popularity ratings are falling. The crowds are geting smaller, the shouts are no longer "lock her up" and his political allies are becoming alarmed.
    Indeed, but is that not taking someone seriously?
    Impeachment is serious business, it's of historical importance.

    I started taking him seriously when he said; " I can shoot someone on 5th ave and no one is gonna care". That scared me then and now that he acted in his capacity of Commander in Chief, I bet the Kurds are taking him seriously.
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    23,328
    And the real cost in dollars to you and me is also significant. The hidden cost of incompetance in high office should never be underestimated.
    Every Trump supporter has probably lost thousands of dollars...along with those who don't support him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  18. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    5,003
    No. The Kurdish controlled regions don't border with Idlib, where Al Qaida has its power. So, the US support for the Kurds is directed only against Assad, beyond the aim of stealing oil.

    In Al Tanf, the US directly protects jihadists, without any Kurds being there.
    No. It is a benefit only to competitors. The customers have to pay higher prices, given that the cheap producers (those who are cheap because of low wages) have to raise their prices. This hurts mainly the poor because they can afford only the lowest prices.

    For example, by big minimal wages for haircutting, many poor simply cannot afford haircutting and have to do this themselves at home. The haircutters in the slums are those who have to close, making those working there (also poor people) jobless. The haircutters in the rich regions are not harmed at all.
     
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  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    There are cheap producers who do not depend on low wages to be cheap, but instead are competent and able to increase productivity in other ways. They would benefit.
    So would their customers.
    The consumers who depend on low priced goods would then benefit by getting better quality and durability for a much smaller price increase than the wage increase they receive. Their net cost of living goes down relative to their income. See the paradox of the cheap shoe.
    When minimum wages go up, the wages of the poor go up faster than the price increases. Econ 101.
    Back when the minimum wage was about a third higher than it is now, haircuts in poor US neighborhoods were cheaper than they are now.
    That may be because haircutting is not much affected by minimum wages - lots of haircutting is done by the self-employed, lots of the income from it is tips and side hustles, and people can easily migrate between self employment and wage labor as opportunity affords.
    - - - -
    It is important for protecting oil and gas Trump wants. And that will remain the case, rather than the US withdrawing from Syria as you speculated - mistakenly - above.

    So you meant "yes", above - that makes Trump's abandonment of the Kurds even worse than it appeared at first.

    And it illustrates the absurdity of favoring Trump for being a "businessman" and a "nationalist".
     
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Trump has a lock on about 35% of the electorate, the Republican base that voted for W and Reagan (the bigots, the evangelical, the rich, the suburban) just as he had in 2016. That's enough to beat a rightwing panderer running as a Dem - such as Biden. The Trump voter will take the real thing over the suspect panderer, and the real left libertarian (the plurality of the electorate) will have nobody to vote for, only against - which will reduce turnout. That plus vote fraud of various kinds is how Gore, Kerry, and Clinton got beat.
     
  21. Beaconator Valued Senior Member

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    1,486
    Its all some form of "primus noctus" tactic...

    Though a little more subtle. Now not all ideas influencing equality are bad, but none of them are perfect. And few are geared towards hard working intelligent people. Most are either for the poor or against the rich. What? Are we all so selfless that we don't want better for ourselves?

    We could not just restart the worlds allocation of land and wealth in fair and equitable means to be inherited now by young adults no more than we could explain the origin of "cold turkey"... Much less live with ourselves as we ride the backs of our children.

    But hey if you like getting plowed by strangers go ahead and get married in public...
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,884
    Which, in turn, reminds one of the great ironies about Donald Trump's lack of perspicacity: Joe wasn't going to be the nominee, anyway.

    His polling started high on name recognition, has been fluctuating on a downward trend, since, with Warren poised to emerge as the new frontrunner. The Ukraine question hasn't had much impact on that. Democrats were never going to send him. And to think that we have an impeachment case because Don and Rudy had some sort of professional wrestling dream about duking it out with Joe.

    Old white guys in trunks, damn it. Old men in trunks.
     
  23. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    5,003
    If they have this ability, they would use it independent of the minimal wages. So, no benefit beyond the destruction of other low price competitors (which allows them to raise prices).
    Only if they are among the few who really get higher wages. Instead of becoming jobless.
    If one ignores those who no longer get wages at all because they become jobless, maybe. But it is far from clear. Don't forget that usually proposals to increase minimum wages happen in times when the economy is raising. So, the negative effects they have on the poor remain hidden behind the advances caused by the general economic situation, which includes wage raises as well as more jobs for all. So it is easy for progressive researchers to hide these negative effects.
    First, I do not speculate about withdrawing. I have explicit information that some of the US troops have already reached Iraq territory. Inclusive fotos and videos of the Iraqis throwing stones and rotten fruits at their convoys.

    It looks like the withdrawel will not be complete, and that some troops will be left to prevent Syria from taking back its oil fields, (officially, one wants to prevent the IS to do this).

    Whatever the Syrian army actually cares about the Northern border. To control the oil fields with Kurds which have been already betrayed in completely Arab regions is beyond me. Probably, they will try to throw away the Kurds out of the SDF and to give the SDF rulership to the former IS supporters.
    No, I meant no. My point was that the inmates of the Kurdish prisons are not more dangerous than Al Qaida, which has in Idlib yet a functioning infrastructure, and the gangs in Al Tanf openly supported by the US, and that most of the inmates are Arab enemies of the Kurds named IS by the Kurds to justify the incarceration, not really IS. This makes liberating them as a side effect of the withdrawal not eviler, but less evil.
    No. That the deep state succeeds the second time to stop the withdrawal at least in part does not discredit Trump as a businessman or a nationalist, it only marks him as weak. The decision was rational as for a businessman, as for a nationalist. It is horrible only for the globalists.
     
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