Absolutely Nothing: Atheists on What They Know About What They Pretend to Discuss

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Tiassa, Nov 15, 2017.

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  1. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    The super nova relevance is significant as without a super nova to provide the building blocks for our solar system there could be no clay and mud for sky daddy to work with.

    The literal interpretation of Genesis is now showed wrong...end of creationism and ID.
    Alex
     
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    yeah, and funnily enough to support that, he also said something to the effect that it isn't about science!!!
    It's not about religion, it's not about science...perhaps its about picking through the debacle and finding all the lies and untruths pursued by Jan.

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  5. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    For me there is no victory if I had to cheat, I mean cheating just never enters my mind, and I think wining by not cheating builds your self esteem.

    Cheating is also lazy and perhaps that is why as they say cheats never prosper..cheats think they win but in real life I can usually pick out a rotter because they just radiate this negative attitude about the world, others and themselves.

    Look at Jan with this call "You hate god"...like where does that come from? I don't hate anything ..it just is..no need for character destroying negative emotion...

    Reading about super nova today ... I photo graphed a nova by accident once but never discovered a super nova or even had one in one of my gallaxy shots...I expect the reason why creationists rail against the big bang is due to the evidence of super nova and our explanation of formation of most elements...I could never figure why they did not like it but that is probably the main reason ..you can not take Genesis literally.
    Alex
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Jan's way past the simple denial stage, and well into the irrational phase at this time. Perhaps he simply hates being told chimps/apes are his cousins? Perhaps he dislikes the fact that humans share around 96% the same DNA as chimps...although in Jan's case, that's probably more like 98%.

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    Now Jan that sharing of DNA is just another illustration of Darwinism, the theory of evolution and the common ancestory of all life on Earth, despite that affecting your sensibilities.
     
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  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    No doubt but he is happy to borrow their poo throwing tactics.

    If Jan believes in Adam and Eve that would make him a young Earth creationist I expect...so he must go along with the biblical flood as well...mind you what appears to be the case there was a massive sea level rise about thirteen thousand years ago..400 feet in four years..that could be where the biblical flood came from, via the Sumerians like most of it of course...but that dates the flood approx 8000 years before creation....however that rise in sea level I think came from examining ice cores...

    I started reading about super nova but them got back to evolution...it is so interesting and we are so fortunate to now know how most things evolved.

    I can't wait until we create life I hope they manage doing that before I die...I bet Jan would deny that they did it saying we can't believe what scientists tell us...and this is what I just can't get my head around...he is so critical of science and scientific method which has evidence to boot known authors etc and favours myths with no evidence from authors with out names or qualification...

    Now I know what you are thinking...that I am laying the boot in again and again and even Jan deserves some let up, but anyone who lies can expect that from me....why did the chicken cross the road? It was responding to an instinctual response tracable to its ancestors from the dinasaur era where they would cross a dry river bed to get to prey on the other side....


    Alex
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    paddoboy said

    Perhaps he dislikes the fact that humans share around 96% the same DNA as chimps.

    Well how much DNA has a handful of mud?

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  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Have I posted this ?
     
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  11. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Jan Ardena:

    You were very selective in what you replied to, and as usual you avoided the hard questions I asked you. Why do you do that, consistently? Are you any better than a common troll?

    Here's one of the longer posts that you've been avoiding, again. This is your third reminder about this:

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/wh...retend-to-discuss.160197/page-61#post-3627746

    And here are some questions you missed from my recent posts:
    • How do you recognise that natural things are designed?
    • How can you tell the difference between designer and no designer, in nature?
    • What process do you go through to decide whether any given natural thing is designed or not?
    • How do you account for the fossil record that shows a sequence of fossils progressing from land-dwelling animals to whales, with a clear sequence of small adaptations?
    • Tell me your objections to the scientific explanation of whale evolution, and explain to me why you believe it is not science.
    • Tell me how you know that evolution cannot account for cells.
    • Are Newton's laws of motion hopelessly outdated (cf. your claims about "Darwinism")?
    • What's the evidence for intelligent design in nature? Can you present any?
    • Show me why the complexity of the cell is a product of a mind. Show me how you know this is true.
    • Please provide an example of design in a biological structure, and tell me how you know it was designed.
    • What is compex, specified information?
    • Why does it require a designer?
    • What does it consist of in the cell?
    • How do you know that evolution by natural selection cannot produce complex, specified information?
    • What is your reason why whales need all those separate bones in their flippers?
    • Why do you think that Schwietzer's work on dinosaur tissue contradicts "darwinism"?
    • Are you upset because science has made a new, unexpected discovery?
    • Which dinosaur bones have been "consistently shown to be between 20000 and 40000 years old"?
    • What kind of evidence would convince you that whales evolved from land animals?
     
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I didn't watch any videos. Which one are you referring to? Should I be objecting to it?

    The fossil record, comparative anatomy, genetics, biology, evolution, geology, physics, etc. Basically, the science is what convinces me.

    Not assumption. Deduction. Based on overwhelming evidence.

    Don't kid yourself. There's no real "controversy" about evolution, not among experts. Remember that 97% of scientists accept evolution. Not 97% of biologists, by the way, but of all scientists. For biologists, the figure would be higher. There is an almost complete consensus among scientists - the experts.

    It's obvious that apes and humans share a common ancestor. Comparative anatomy, genetics, biology, paleontology. All point to only one conclusion.

    It's not a guess. See the fossil record, comparative anatomy, genetics, geology, radioactive dating etc. This is the inevitable conclusion that the evidence points us towards. Sure, you can always deny the obvious if you want to be obtuse about it. You could assert equally that the conclusion that the sky is blue is just an extravagant guess, on the same kinds of grounds, and you'd be equally wrong about that.

    There are subtleties concerning the "chain" of fossils that you would be right to question, but in your current state of wilful ignorance you're not even in a position to know what the right questions are to ask about that. (Those questions all have answers, by the way.)

    Your argument from personal incredulity doesn't carry much weight, unfortunately for you.
     
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Already done. In fact, as you know, I've patiently tried to educate you about evolution for years on this forum, on and off when the subject has come up. Typically, you avoid the hard questions and ignore most of what is presented to you in terms of stuff you could learn.

    That 3% of scientists, a large proportion of whom I'm betting are not biologists or scientists whose work otherwise requires an understanding of biology. Is that who you're talking about?

    Of course you are. Since you know there's an overwhelming expert consensus on the subject, you want to toss out the experts and work solely with the amateurs. You're no doubt aware that there's significant doubt about evolution among the general public, especially in the United States but also in some other countries (from memory, I think the US comes in second only to Turkey on evolution denial). Partly this is due to extensive efforts at propagating false ideas about evolution, which we can largely put down to fundamentalist American Christians.

    Evolution is somewhat unusual in that vested interests have targeted this area of science with the specific aim of trying to discredit it among the general public. Generally, that kind of thing produces some results because most people aren't trained in critical thinking either. The same thing applies to the science of climate change.

    Nevertheless, many non-experts without special training in critical thinking, as well as those who have developed such skills, accept evolution despite being non-experts. This is hardly surprising since at its core the theory of evolution is not difficult to grasp. Also, it quite obviously has massive explanatory power, visible even to non-experts. Alex and paddoboy both have a good understanding of scientific methods, and they are able to apply their general knowledge of science, as well as their own learning about the theory of evolution, to draw the obvious conclusion, despite being non-experts. In particular, it helps that they aren't blinded by a religious dogma or mindset that prevents them from considering this scientific theory from an unbiased perspective. They have obviously been open to learning about evolution and have no doubt gained insight from main different sources. You, on the other hand, are afraid of what you might find, were you ever to honestly try to learn about the theory. So you never really look.

    You haven't told me. My guess is the Hare Krishna religion. (What do you call it?)

    Constantly.

    I got the impression that you thought that the discovery of soft tissue from dinosaurs was a fatal blow for the theory of evolution. My mistake. Why did you bring it up, then?

    Why did you bring him up, then? I got the impression you thought his views on Jesus were somehow relevant to the discussion.
     
  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Given those folk who support evolution present a reference to their authority would it be unreasonable to have Jan present his authority for each answer...you know a reference to which part of the bible gives support for his answer.
    That should be mandatory really.
    Alex
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus bloody christ Alex!!! He's a bloody scientist, a biologist no less!! Why the hell would he know anything about Darwinism and evolution?

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  16. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I find your question confusing. So I’ll word it how so it makes sense to me.
    “How do I recognise design in nature?”
    I think it is a beyond my capability to recognise everything. But I can recognise design, period.
    So can you, so can most people, if not everyone.

    The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.
    https://intelligentdesign.org/whatisid/

    Obviously. that is the prosses of life, which is already here. I was referring to the origin of life.”, as thought of by proponents of abiogenesis.
    I know my phone, my tv, my car, was designed.
    Even if I didn’t know who designed them?
    Did you think those thing grow naturally unaided by intelligence?
    I can’t tell if it is designed, but cell biologists can. Their description of the cell leads me to accept that it is obviously designed as opposed to arriving by chance.
     
  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Worst of all no referencing the good book to prove any point.

    I would like to see Jan make a point and then quote chapter and verse his authority from the good book, that would be real funny.

    He won't of course, I can't wait to see his replies to the sensible questions James listed.

    Not quoting will show he can't even find why he believes his nonsense in the bible.

    I will be watching for lies and deception as I hope will others..see who can find the most.

    You may have noticed he would not comment on church folk ignoring the welfare of the community by rejecting calls for taking containment strategies...you know doesn't want to go off topic...what a pretender.

    Wasn't Richard Dawkins a professor of biology...Jan..my pastor beats your professor...why Jan? Because the truth is the truth and I just know I am right...a real banker if you get my drift.

    For the first time I felt sorry for Donald..letting Govenors decide re social distancing church gatherings over Easter..just think of the pressure it would take for him to go against his own judgement which as far as I could see was to work on containment but the crazies got to him...happy Easter America...I have a feeling things are going to get catastrophic over there.
    Alex
     
  18. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I try and respond to most of your questions James.
     
  19. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Try is a negative word presupposing failure...dont try just do.
    Alex
     
  20. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    What about them?
    Such as?
    Is it possible that they have to be seen to accept darwinism for fear of not getting funding, or losing their jobs?
    It’s obvious that apes and humans share a community a designer based on the same genres.
    How is that not a guess?
    Your opinion doesn’t carry much weight, unfortunately for you
     
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I’m a “the glass is half full kind of guy”.
    Without trying, there is no doing.
     
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    So if I saw you performing some task you would expect me not to ask "what are you doing" but rather "what are you trying"
    Alex
     
  23. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    All your approach is the same as these last posts show. No real effort.
    I’ve learned quite a bit from you. But you’ve done nothing to show that it is true.
    Not at all.
    This thread alone refuted that.
    I’ve already told you what I mean.
    I don’t trust statistics, especially when it comes to who does or does not accept darwinism. Because it isn’t about science, it’s about politics.
    There you go again, telling me who and what I am. As I said earlier, a world in which your mindset has the majority of power, would be a nightmare.

    I am interested in what makes people accept Darwin’s theory. Because of this you assume I want to toss out the experts, even though there are experts who do not accept it as the best explanation.
    You assume they are false ideas.
    I don’t believe it is down to the churches.
    I don’t think you need to be religious to not accept darwinism. I think you have to be religious minded to accept it. Science does not back up darwinism, because science can’t back it up with experimentation or observation. If it could, nobody could deny it. No scientist could deny it. If it were true, we would instinctively know. As it stands, it has to be indoctrinated into the populace, continuously. And even then the average person can’t explain what it is that makes them accept it. They can only refer to pictures, and rhetoric like what you’re spinning here.
    Anything that requires you to be an expert, just to be able to give a simple explanation, is not something that I would personally regard as truth. No one here can give a simple explanation, including you.
    And I would like to know why.
    The best way, in my opinion, is to just straight out ask folk why they accept it. No one can give an answer that doesn’t involve exaggerated pictures, or rhetoric such as yours.
    You rhetoric is just more informed than the others on here, but equally vacant.
    “It obvious...”, is not an explanation. Or reeling off scientific genres, or quoting statistics. None of these explain anything.
    That’s your opinion.
    But you’ve offered nothing to show that it matters. As far as I can surmise , you give them props purely because they accept darwinism, and reject God.
    Would you still feel the same way if they rejected darwinism and accepted God?
    Or is accepting darwinism the criteria?
    There you go again, telling me what I think.
    This is why I tend not to bother with you, because this type of behaviour is at the forefront of all our discussions.
    So until I tell you, why make that assumption?
    Why make any assumptions?
    Why are you so emotional about darwinism?
    Apart from the religion of darwinism, where have I brought up religion.
    Personally I don’t, and most probably won’t, discuss religion on here. I discuss theism and atheism. This discussion is rooted in theism and atheism. The only religion I’m discussing is darwinism.
    I don’t mean religion as in the Christian, or Islamic sense (although it may well become), I mean by the attitude of its adherents. It is non different than the attitude that of Christians, who defend their belief, against those that don’t accept it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
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