Non-Sense of Macro Evolutionary Faith

I think there may be an element of talking at cross purposes here. I would place two individuals into any discussion of the concept of strata, Nicolas Steno and William Smith.

Steno, in the mid 1600s introduced the Law of Superposition which asserts that in a sequence of strata the oldesat strata are at the bottom and the youngest are at the top, with an appropriate gradation in between.
Smith was involved in mining then canal construction in the late 1700s/early 1800s, which allowed him to observe the succession of various strata and the fossils they contained, throughout England. He agreed with Steno's Law of Superposition; I don't recall if he learnt of it, or developed it independently. In particular he noted the association of specfic suits of fossils in the same strata. From the information he gathered he produced the first map of the geology of England.

One of Smith's conclusions was that one could identify the strata and thus their relative age, based upon the fossils they contained. I think it is in this sense that river means the age of strata are based upon life. If that is his intent I am in complete agreement with him on this point.

 

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That's true of asexual reproduction in certain circumstances, and false otherwise.

It's called Muller's Ratchet, it's a commonplace factor familiar to all evolutionary theorists, and some recent work has shown why it doesn't usually cause extinction even in the particular circumstances (asexual reproduction, high rates of harmful mutation, isolated population) it was thought to dominate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muller's_ratchet

 

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And you are still wrong.

 

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The age of strata is based on their actual age. Fossils are a useful TOOL to determine what that age is. But the strata has an age that is not based on fossils - it is based on the actual age of the rock.

Way back when, fossils were the only tools we had to determine age of strata. Today we have better tools.

 

Hey river,

I found another source that gave 70,000 years for the max for carbon 14 dating. So I will need to correct my previous number of 50,000 to 70,000 years.

That adds 20,000 more years!

But, it’s still a secret, so just between you and me.

They are starting to date Dinosaurs now with Carbon 14 because of the tissues and blood veins found inside Dinosaur bones.

The dates are as recent as 9,000 years, so far.

https://online.ucpress.edu/abt/arti...carbon-in-Dinosaur-Fossils-Compatibility-with

“In two 1990 articles, YEC authors reported 14C analyses of Mesozoic wood and dinosaur bone. The fossils yielded radiocarbon “ages” between 9000 and 40,000 years (Dahmer et al., 1990; Fields et al., 1990). Since then, YEC authors have submitted several more Mesozoic fossil samples for 14C testing. All have had enough 14C to yield radiocarbon “ages” between 9000 and 50,000 years. The samples include petrified wood, coal, ammonite shells, and bone from several species of dinosaurs, including the Jurassic genera Allosaurus and Camarasaurusand the Cretaceous genera Acrocanthosaurus, Edmontosaurus, and Triceratops.”

The article gives educators ways to deny it and cover it up, in detail. But also admits that these kinds of numbers are absolutely real.

No one here wants to admit or know that, so keep it on the low down!

Just between you and me.

Psst: According to the Carbon 14 Dates, Dinosaurs and Man lived and walked together.

According to recorded history, they did as well.

There are very accurate Middle Ages paintings of them hanging in museums around the World. They used to be called Dragons, Sea Monsters, Leviathan, etc.

Science will catch up to reality some day... but it may take another thousand years or so.

 

The absolute age, error and methdological biases excepted, is determined directly, but more usually indirectly, using elements with radioactive isotopes and their daughter products. Agreed. However, when a geologist, be they stratigrapher, sedimentologist, palaeontologist, or other declares such and such a bed is of Lower Triassic age, they are speaking of age and they are basing it on the fossil content of the bed, or of adjacent beds.
The number of outcrops, for which we have an absolute age determination are a small proportion of those for which we have a geological age set by fossil content. This is common usage in geology. If this is what river means when he says "the age of strata is based on life", then he is correct. If he means it is only based on life, if he denies that absolute age determinations are possible, then he is wrong.

 

And K-Ar dating is good for billions.

You were saying?

 

Seti probably believes he is being honest, at least, honest in regards to what the Bible is allegedly teaching him, which is to make sure he places Jesus first and foremost in his life, above everything else including himself and his family members. Nothing is more important than Jesus and Seti, like other followers and liars for Jesus, will say or do anything to protect those beliefs.

Enter the Trump supporter. Not much difference. The other day, Trump called Jesus "The Boss" at one of his rallies, creating a massive cheer from the crowd. He said this was from where he and his campaign needed help; "The Boss" as he points his finger skyward. Huzzah!

One tends to throw up in their mouths upon seeing such a spectacle, but this is the mindset of Seti, and after watching videos of Trump supporters, it's getting easier to understand that mindset, however zealous and insane. There is no reasoning with such a person as reason doesn't exist in their minds.

 

Perhaps more accurately, science will in time push back even further the reason for mythical beliefs such as yours, and the dishonest approach you need to employ to advance your crusade here. Your pretentious frivolity actually gives you away.
from your link...........................
"Teachers who encounter students who have been misled by YEC arguments that are based on radiocarbon in dinosaur bones are encouraged to direct such students to the information presented here. However, YEC publications have generated a plethora of other anti-evolution arguments, and it would be useful to be able to counter those as well. It is therefore worthwhile to note that there are four recent books that together refute nearly all of the YEC arguments that have been published thus far: Isaak (2007), Prothero (2007), Kane et al. (2016), and Senter (2019). Such resources could be useful for educating both teachers and students and for inoculating students against future exposure to YEC arguments.

Additionally, for students who profess loyalty to the Bible, it would be useful to know that several passages in the Old and New Testaments instruct against taking Genesis literally and therefore that the Bible itself does not support the YEC view. Such passages are reviewed in Senter (2019) and are partially reviewed in Senter (2016). It would be worthwhile for teachers to know of such resources, so as to direct students to them when appropriate. It is legal, at least in the United States, to address religious concerns that students bring up in science classes, as long as the teacher does not endorse one religious view over another (Hermann, 2013). Studies on conceptual change suggest that addressing such concerns may be effective in helping students feel comfortable accepting evolution and an old Earth if their objections to such concepts are based on religious concerns (Senter, 2017b). Such help could be a useful supplement to science-based refutations of YEC arguments such as those presented here regarding radiocarbon in dinosaur bones."

 

One could think if there is a god observations would suggest he is very much into survival of the fittest given he lets wars happen.

Again if these creationists can set evolution aside that is no proof of the existence of a god...the great pity is none of them read their bible ...I think that suggests laziness and leads to folk just making up what they would like it to say...above all creationists certainly avoid searching for truth...some of these folk believe that the Earth is the center of the universe and that the Sun orbits the Earth...just as they ignore the science of Evolution they must have reality fit their interpretation of the bible and indulge yet another lie and simply ignore the facts...

It is sad that humanity has not thrown off superstition.

At least religion is featuring less...there is a small village near this place..it has 7 houses...two of which are churches now converted to homes for real people...and you now see this all over the churches disappearing and sold off for homes for real people..a friend of mine in another village lives in one..nice high ceilings great wood work..she loves it..but think of it...2 churches in such a small village.

Interesting many treaties in the past the party taking over would insist on the right to place churches in each town or village...then you realise they were above all great earners..ten percent off the top ..who would not want to put a church anywhere and everywhere...Seti just does not get it...it is sad to see so many people believing simply because they were brainwashed when young.
Alex

 

A while back someone asked for more evidence that Dinosaurs and Man have lived together more recently than is currently taught.

So here are a few pieces of evidence that appear to show exactly that, for your review.

Source:
"UNTOLD SECRETS OF PLANET EARTH - DIRE Dragons"
by Vance Nelson (First Printing, January, 2018)

Fact: These are all works of art that were created in the past, before the scientific excavation tools, techniques, and understanding we have today existed.

As always, it is important that each person be allowed to individually make their own observations and decisions without compulsion or peer pressure.

With that, may each person decide for themselves...

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And a few more for your review...

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That last Dinosaur is kinda smilin at you from long ago.

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You're kidding right? I mean how gullible can you be? You still accept Santa and the Easter Bunny? A few photos and you want us to all get on our knees praying to your mythical deity!

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Let's see.....
"UNTOLD SECRETS OF PLANET EARTH - DIRE Dragons"
by Vance Nelson:

https://creation.com/vance-nelson-interview
Unearthing exciting evidence for creation
Gary Bates interviews fossil researcher Vance Nelson
Vance Nelson is a prolific researcher whose work is making a significant contribution to the Christian/creationist movement. He is the author of the Untold Secrets of Planet Earth series: Dire Dragons, Flood Fossils, Monumental Monsters, and Amazon Expedition. He and his wife Korelei reside in the ‘oil sands’ province of Alberta, Canada, with their daughters, Emily, Hope, and Zoe. He has been a speaker at several CMI conferences.

http://creationtruthministries.org/
Introduction
Creation Truth Ministries is dedicated to defending the authority of the Bible starting in Genesis. Creation Truth Ministries is a Christian ministry that seeks to enable believers to defend their faith in an increasingly secular age.
Vance Nelson is the director of CTM [Creation Truth Ministries:]
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Stop making a damn fool of yourself Seti, and again, your pretentious attempts at frivolity fool no one.

 

Ahh yes!

Now for the Character Assassinations!
They are Brrrrilliant Arguments!

The Peer Pressure will be coming very soon now!

 

Character assassinations? Just telling it as it is.

You mean you are delusional enough to come to a science forum where the scientific methodology prevails, and not expect critique of your unsupported, nonsense?

 

Fact: 140 wasted pages of anti-science science for the wingnut creationist imbeciles. It should ship with a box of crayons so the trees were not hacked down for nothing.

 

I don’t think so (Q)!

You had a few good comments intermingled in there.

You don’t agree?

 

The painting above in your pics: "The Little Garden of Paradise" was painted around 1410 by an unknown artist. The dead animal is this artists very poor rendition of the dragon killed by St. George, one of many depictions created throughout as many centuries of St. George killing the mythical dragon. Yet. Vance Nelson took it upon himself to find a picture of a Deinonychus and decided it best resembled that lame rendition of the dead dragon and concluded dinosaurs lived with men. Nelson is truly an imbecile.

 

Here is one more example of how Darwinian Evolutionists are Corrupting and Manipulating Scientists, and forcing them to bend the knee!

https://evolutionnews.org/2005/01/biologist_faces_inquisition_at_the_smith/

 

So you think there were actually fire breathing dinosaurs? LOL! Let me guess - you think they also flew and were slain by brave knights!