Are Jesus and Trump one and the same person?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by (Q), Nov 4, 2020.

  1. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    If you watch the right wingers, they believe Trump has been elected and will be re-elected because of Jesus.

    Was Jesus an habitual liar, a narcissist and adulterer?

    Or, is Trump an honest person, only looks out for others and has never had any extramarital affairs?

    This is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak, as we can delve much further into any number of characteristics and traits Trump has revealed about himself and compare them with Jesus.
     
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  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    YES - YES - Don't know

    His dad not to clean with his sex morals. He would definitely be on the #MeToo radar with Mary being surrounded with social workers

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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I found an interesting article while browsing, of all things, the Fox News website:

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/biden-elected-christians-response-robert-jeffress

    The header starts with "Biden is president-elect — how should Christians respond? What is God doing in this outcome? Why would He allow this to happen?"

    The answer, apparently, boils down to this:

    Human governments and rulers change at God’s direction and design.
    According the author, since God has made the decision, good Christians should accept it and support their new President.

    Now, it’s always easier to submit and to pray for someone when he was our preferred candidate. But the rubber really meets the road when the person who takes office is not the one we supported. Paul didn’t give us any wiggle room — his command [to obey God's chosen rulers] applies all the same, whether the emperor was the faith-friendly Constantine or the evil emperor Nero.
    God wanted Biden to be President, and now Trump Christians should get with the Lord's programme!

    It follows, of course, that God also wanted Hitler to rule Germany (at least for a while), and He supports Putin and Kim Jong-un, at least for the time being. We all need to accept that this is part of God's Master Plan.


    Amen.
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Well, some of them, sure, but:

    Maybe.

    For our purposes, no, except kind of yes, but that might be a bit subtle; it's definitely more subtle than the right-wingers you refer to.

    That's actually either irrelevant to your question, or woven into God's purpose. That is, vis à vis the belief that Trump has been elected and will be re-elected because of Jesus, the relationship between Trump's personal character and the presidency is still a matter of God's will.

    Consider James R's take:

    Said author is, after all, Robert Jeffress, who once described President Obama as paving the way for the antichrist, and if in the present he might advise↱

    Here is our chance to show that Christians are not hypocrites. We serve a God who remains on His throne, sovereignly reigning over every square inch of this vast universe. We serve a God who loves us and will never leave or forsake us. And now we have the chance to show the consistency and constancy/ of our Christian witness to this world.

    —demonstrations of piety for the sake of mortal witness, well, we ought not be surprised.

    There are a couple points worth comparing:

    1) Jeffress is not wrong insofar as God's will is God's will.

    2) The consistency or constancy of Christian witness to the world, the demonstration that one is not a hypocrite, is not entirely an act of wilful piety for the sake of being seen; in letting yea be yea, and nay be nay, yes, a certain moral consistency is important. But at no point in his FOX News article does Jeffress remind Christians to trust God; this is not surprising, as the value traded here is authority and obedience. The American conservative Christian flock is largely faithless, its political activism a desperate scrabbling for authority, a neurotic usurpation demanding satisfaction. In the end, what is important to Jeffress is earthly success: "If President Biden succeeds, we all succeed." Mayhaps, but that wasn't necessarily true of President Trump, and, moreover, it seems that any president instituted by God serves God's purpose more than anything else, so if some material success and benefit is part of the Plan, all the better for us. But that makes some people feel small and insignificant and insecure, which in turn is why they need gods to usurp. I mean, er ... that sort of faith is very disruptive of the personal relationships with the feelgood idols of personal aesthetics built up over the years in modern relativist Christendom.​

    What we find—

    —when we add up all those scraps according to their market value is a sketch of the priorities various believers attend.

    This can become a question of letting those we know are wrong set the terms of discussion: Abiding their terms, even in dispute, only entrenches them.

    The members of all communities, including nations and whole civilisations, are infused with the prevailing ideologies of those communities. These, in turn, create attitudes of mind which include certain capacities and equally positively exclude others.

    The ideologies may be so ancient, so deep-seated or so subtle that they are not identified as such by the people at large. In this case they are often discerned only through a method of challenging them, asking questions about them or by comparing them with other communities.

    Such challenge, description, or questioning, often the questioning of assumptions, is what frequently enables a culture or a number of people from that culture to think in ways that have been closed to most of their fellows.


    ―Emir Ali Khan

    Jeffress emphasizes authority, obedience, and worldly concerns; while this does not surprise, neither does our weary familiarity or roadworn cynicism change that the preacher gives bad advice.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Jeffress, Robert. "Biden is president-elect — how should Christians respond?" FOX News. 7 November 2020. FOXNews.com. 26 November 2020. https://fxn.ws/2V9dUCR

    Khan, Emir Ali. "Sufi Activity". Sufi Thought and Action. Edited by Idries Shah. London: Octagon Press, 1990.
     
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  8. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    He works in mysterious ways and it's not for us to understand (other than though Fox News).
     
  9. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Pastor Robert Jeffress, to the one, correctly points out that the President is a mere conduit for God's divine inspiration. The divine rights of Kings is well established. Mayhaps not all agree, no really, but that is neither here nor there.

    To the other, and just twist you and I, Jeffress is incorrect when he says that we should be critical of Biden when his policies don't support Christianity. That's an impossibility as he is only a conduit for God, ya'know? No really, it's not possible for him to do that.

    This is not a subtlety, a fine point if you well, a nuanced point or an inconsequential one. No really. Trump could do not wrong and Biden will do no wrong. That's the thing with divine intervention, ya'know? No really.

    Or is it?
     
  10. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    As a catholic I couldn't be happier that Trump isnt president anymore.
     
  11. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Trump, has taught me a great deal of the human psyche I can manipulate.
     
  12. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Donald Trump has a mental condition.
     
  13. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    So?
     
  14. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    He's not fit for his office, and 5hat was clearly true from the on start of his campaign, and he's on the verge of commiting treason.
     
  15. POVphysics2 Registered Member

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    We'll know just how smart Donald Trump is if the Supreme court throws out election results for PA and MI.
     
  16. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Betty Bowers has a take on the Evangelicals and Trump...

     
  17. river

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    The Supreme Court didn't .
     
  18. river

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    Neither PA nor MI . Supreme Court has thrown out the election results . They have been certified as fact .
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  19. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Even Trump's own Attorney General says that there is no evidence for the scale of fraud that Trump alleges, nothing on the scale required to see the result overturned.
     
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  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    At this point, you have to be living in a universe of "alternate facts" to believe that the election was fraudulent on a scale large enough to affect the outcome of the presidential race. I appreciate, of course, that this is exactly where a portion of the American public lives these days.
     
  21. river

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    17,307
    Indeed . More importantly , fraudulent in the first place .

    The U.S. Elections are not fraudulent .
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  22. POVphysics2 Registered Member

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    93
    Post the article.
     
  23. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly, McConnell called Barr and told him to cut the Orange Man loose before Trump completely destroyed the Republican party, which he will still do as more and more Republicans denounce and abandons Trump. Soon, we will see a GOP running around trying to keep its base intact, but Trump will just form his own party and steal much of that base. This should keep Dems in power for years to come.
     

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