Everyday sexism

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by James R, Dec 7, 2020.

Page 10 of 29
  1. LaurieAG

    LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

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    588
    I think the KFC zoom meeting advertisement is a good example of everyday sexism. Imagine if it had been an old man and a much younger woman 'from accounting'.

    Surely "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" is the rallying cry for chauvinists everywhere these days as well as being a major part of the problem(s).

    From Wikipedia
     
    LaurieAG, Dec 21, 2020
    #181

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  3. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    For using 'Aussie banter' with a fellow Australian who is adamant that his manner of addressing complete strangers is the norm.. About his whining..?

    That's the entire point you missed but aptly displayed. That such banter is not the norm and is not acceptable when addressing people who are not familiar to us.

    Is Billvon excusing racist and sexist behaviour as "the norm"? No. He is not.

    But let's look at your behaviour, shall we?

    You enter this thread in a huff because someone dared to call out the sexist and at times racist behaviour of a "white man" and your huff is that I mention the fact that he is a white man who keeps uttering the word "nigger" and that really is not appropriate (which even he agrees that it's not an appropriate word mind you!). But in your roar, ranting about how being called a "white man" is worse than being called "nigger" because of the sexist element to it as well..

    And who do you say this to?

    The only black woman in the room who has actually had the word "nigger" hissed at me on occasion from childhood through to adulthood by, yes, white men. Not only that, I have been denied service, been abused racially, been discriminated against, been harassed as a woman of colour, been sexually assaulted. By whom, you may ask? White men who are and continue to be protected and privileged by the very society you live in.

    The words "read the room" apply here. But it seems that level of reflection is beyond you..

    "White men" is a designation of privilege. Something that you have benefited from your entire life by can only be deemed the accident of birth. Everyone else here recognises this. Why can't you?

    Here's the thing about racism and sexism. Who wields the power still?

    The other white men here, like Billvon, Dave, James, Tiassa, etc, are trying to affect change and they are using their power and privilege to do so, to make life better for us. You are more interested in preserving and protecting your privilege at the expense of "niggers" like me by ridiculously painting yourself as the victim because you are a white man..

    You still don't get it, do you?

    “The ability to use a slur towards someone else comes with a certain kind of institutional power behind it.” Kimmel, who coined the phrase “aggrieved entitlement” in his book, Angry White Men, further asks: “What’s the opposite of the straight white male? It’s the black lesbian, right? Please name all the big corporations who have black lesbians as CEOs. Please tell me the countries that have black lesbians as heads of state or in any political position of power. As far as I can see straight white males still dominate the world. There are still more CEOs named ‘John’ than female CEOs.”
    [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/22/has-straight-white-male-become-an-insult-slur]​

    Your proposition is ludicrous. Do you know why? Because you still wield institutional power and you still occupy a position of privilege because you are a white male. The racism and sexism stems from the fact that white men still occupy that position of privilege at the expense and cost of everyone else.

    Western governments, for example, do not represent the society they lead or govern and are instead mostly populated by white men. Look at Australia as a prime example. How many women does the Liberal Party have in cabinet federally? How about Indigenous Australians? Muslims? Africans? Asians? You know, the large portion of each group that call Australia home.

    You find it more racist and sexist to call these Liberal Party members "white men" than the fact they have failed to address the shortage of women and minorities and Indigenous Australians within their ranks which is racist and sexist. Doesn't that tell you something?

    Your moral outrage is against the fact that your privilege, that has always been the status quo and the norm, is now brought out to the sunshine for the goddamn disinfectant it needs.

    Do you know how you have diminished "countless wrongs"? When you huffed into this thread and declared that saying "white men" or calling someone a "white man" is worse than "nigger". In that moment, you attempted to obliterate the crimes of "white men" against "niggers" throughout history and currently, by making yourself the victim. It's repulsive. You oppress and then try to claim you are the victim of the people you are oppressing.

    No. It is not.

    For reasons stated above.
     
    Bells, Dec 21, 2020
    #182
    cluelusshusbund likes this.

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  5. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Numerous articles were provided that detail how such "banter" is often unwanted and how these young women are prevented from refusing or asking the customer to stop or risk losing their jobs, have been provided in this thread. Not to mention the women (and men) participating in this thread have gone to great lengths to explain to you how and why your behaviour is inappropriate.

    It is very dishonest of you to claim that it was "unevidenced".

    Normalising behaviour that is so condescending and at times downright creepy essentially feeds the misogyny that leads to sexual violence, murder of women, etc..

    These people are trying to do their job. How about you recognise that, address them accordingly as professionals. Leave the 'how's it goin' love' to the people you know and are comfortable with you and your pet names and terms of endearment.

    The staff in stores, banks, etc, are not your friends or your pet for you to 'awww love!'. You diminish them when you do that. Which in turn feeds that culture of misogyny. You aren't respecting her or her position when you do that. She's not allowed to tell you to stop. You wield the power because as you openly admit, you call the manager willy nilly based on how these women respond to you. It is completely inappropriate for you to address them that way. You are the one with the choice here. They do not have a choice.

    Just because she can't say no to you, does not mean she is saying yes to how you address her. Just because she smiles at you, or laughs at your "banter", does not mean she's not crawling out of her skin on the inside because of your "banter". You may seriously be creeping her out and making her distinctly uncomfortable. That is on YOU to change. She is simply trying to do her job. And most importantly, she is prevented from saying no to you. For that reason alone, you should address her in a professional manner.

    Until he sidles up to your granddaughter as she's working in a supermarket to earn some pocket money while she's in high school, asks her 'scuse me love, can you tell me where I could find the extra virgin olive oil' and then cracks a few jokes about it, then logs on and crows about how he did that online and how she just loved it - ignoring the part that she may have been completely creeped out by his behaviour and was not allowed to say so or risk losing her job.

    The cause is normalising such behaviour, which feeds a culture of disrespect for women and girls which continues to feed a culture that sees violence against women simply continue unabated. Misogyny, sexual harassment, etc, all starts from simply disrespecting women, their role in society, their jobs, etc.
     
    Bells, Dec 22, 2020
    #183
    cluelusshusbund likes this.

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  7. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    It did not raise its ugly head in any of the cases I presented and were involved in, and again not all particularly young, including an incident yesterday.
    It was not condescending behaviour either by the women involved or myself. And any feeding of misogyny as you put it, would only probably be accurate in people already misogynistic, sexist or misandrist.
    Of course they do! Are you actually taking any notice of some of the cases I have presented? Like the paramedic staff towards myself and the wife?
    And I consequently sent an E-Mail to Ambulance NSW commending the two wonderful females involved.
    Let's get it all straight Bells, because you have as usual, got it all arse up.....I said "where's the extra virgin olive oil Love" because that's what I wanted....no grinning at her, no sidling up to her, no jokes with regards to that, and no comment about how she loved it...in fact she showed me and I went and got it..perhaps these things only were in your mind Bells?
    yeah, more philosophical unproven crap.
    Now let me tell you a story Bells.
    Firstly sympathy and condolences to both you and Alex for your loss.
    While I have been pretty open on this forum about my life, where I live etc, one thing I have never disclosed. I have a Sister I havn't seen in 40 years and who lives only 20 kms from me, if she is still alive.
    Reason why I don't see her, is because she disaproved of my marriage to my wife, and crucified both my parents for condoning it.
    To me she doesn't exist anymore, and even when my Mum passed away and left me her unit, I instructed my Solicitor to give her half and tell her to stick it where the Sun don't shine, without ever confronting her or any contact whatsoever.
    Now you may say, "who gives a shit" and you would be right, because I don't and this is the first time I have openly mentioned it anywhere...even some of my best friends do not know I have a sister.
    You have a good Chrissy because I will, knowing that I have not done any wrong and will continue carrying on as I always have.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
    paddoboy, Dec 22, 2020
    #184
  8. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    stuff up
     
    paddoboy, Dec 22, 2020
    #185
  9. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,543
    Seems like people that have an agenda tend to miss certain things......
    [1] I indulge [as a normal everyday bloke] in common everyday banter.
    [2]Sometimes that banter is initiated by me, sometimes it is initiated by the other party/
    [3] That banter maybe between two males, [me obviously being one] or a of the opposite sex.
    [4] No objection of any underhanded notion, inference, or sublime message, is ever contemplated by either party.
    [5] If [speaking on my part] there was any offence taken, or even looked like being taken, the banter would cease.
    [6] Claims by others that offences may exist but circumstances prevent the other party objecting, is total unwarranted, unevidenced and baseless nonsense and simply excuse fabrication and fabricated philosophical claptrap.
     
    paddoboy, Dec 22, 2020
    #186
  10. billvon

    billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,644
    I asked five women I know about being called "love." Three said that they would find it bothersome. Of those, only one said she would say anything about it. The other two said "well depends how well I know him, I probably wouldn't say anything" and "it wouldn't bother me _that_ much."

    FYI. I know you don't care, but other people may.
     
    billvon, Dec 22, 2020
    #187
  11. Xelasnave.1947

    Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,502
    I understand what you are saying.

    So how do you feel about the projection of women as trivial in Hollywood movies?

    How do you feel about the church still advocating that women should be subservient to the " man of the house"?

    How do you feel about the cosmetic industry and the fashion industry emphasising women as mere sexual fantasy "objects".

    How do you feel about marketing in general that employs sexualisation of products which in my view simply presents women as "objects" ...

    I simply think there are bigger fish to fry than Paddo..you must see that...and maybe the women he has contact with don't like being called "luv" ..but you really dont know and that is key...you have good reason to assume but the fact is you are indeed assuming and passing judgement without being there....but really it is so common with old people both male and female I think focusing upon it as a burning issue is really a waste of time because the folk who have used love and darling etc ,both men and women, are not going to change, in my view.
    I don't use it and frankly I hate it when anyone calls me love or darling ..my name is Alex and I like the sound of it...I have I admit pulled folk up male and female calling me love, darling and even mate..particularly when they call me Bro...and simply say I would like you to call me Alex...some do some are just victim of habit..so I don't make a big deal out of it... I really think younger folk, girls, would probably be more annoyed by the fact he has not learnt to bank via the internet..you know a resentment for being old fashion of which calling people love is just a part of it.

    However the problem is much bigger than Paddo.. if he stopped calling women love tomorrow little will change. I understand however that sort of behaviour you see as unnecessary and uncalled for..I respect your opinion but seeing the subject is up for discussion and what I now suggest an extension of the thread topic can we not move onto deeper problems with our culture and how they can be addressed.

    You have not commented upon the roll of the church so I ask do you think they are blameless.

    I listened to a radio show on one of my Sydney trips, a Christian show, a little North of Newcastle where you seem to get lots of christian stuff I notice..anyways the chat was between two christian males about some group they ran for young husbands and how they had to support them as " head of the house" and the flavour was not good..clearly they regarded the woman as down a peg..how do you think their kids will grow up..the women can't win generation after generation......and from what I have read a great deal of domestic violence arises due to this christian notion of the man being the head of the house..and I raised marriage ceremonies with you..you made no comment..where the woman promises things that should be earnt..like respect and love...I don't know how deep you think about the culture problem but it won't go away because Paddo stops calling women love you can bet...

    I guess probably a little late for this but the reason I became so upset is how everyone is laying the boot into an old man ..he is older than me and I am 74..75 in a couple of weeks...do you not see that as a problem in itself?
    and you all get stuck into him and bully him as if he is the cause of every problem out there..and you attach to him a malice that clearly he does not have...
    Crime needs bad intent..do you really think he has bad intent..he has none that is clear.
    The only reason all this drags on is because he no doubt feels that every one is treating him unfairly.. they are make no mistake about that...how would you feel if a mob decended on your Dad, similar age, and bully him with out let up???

    Anyways I think the two foundations of our culture..the church and Hollywood are the problem,...and the fashion and cosmetic industry.
    Maybe cars..there is a male ego thing there that flows over to domestic violence I bet...and grog..heck make some sort of sedative the drug of our culture...grog is present in so many beatings of women.

    I think more needs to be done about domestic violence and rape ..second offence mandatory life if not for the first...I would prefer death penalty really ..and you will say uncivilized well this is where you do fight fire with fire..hit a woman..no excuse you are gone..throw away the key.


    Anyways as much as I really enjoy chating here I find I just spend too much time and so if I can keep away I shall to do other things.

    So before I go I appologise to all those who I offended..my response was to you all laying the boot into Paddo and to Billvons sneaky tactic of putting words into people's mouth..I just don't like it and so as Bells said I came in a huff.

    Merry Christmas period to all.

    Alex
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
    Xelasnave.1947, Dec 22, 2020
    #188
  12. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    13,077
    Michael 345, Dec 22, 2020
    #189
  13. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,543
    Wrong billvon, I care about sexual assault and crime in general, by both sexes, as I have amply illustrated here and elsewhere. And I am also active in general community care. Ever heard of Meals on wheels? Or lollypop people? Or volunteer work at the local Catholic school my Son went to?
    Try reading my posts for what they are and what they state, not the deliberate misinterpretations and lies bordering on evil, as others seem to want people to believe.
     
    paddoboy, Dec 22, 2020
    #190
  14. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    39,421
    Moderator note: The original topic of this thread was sexism. However, a parallel discussion has emerged on "political correctness" and racism. I have split that separate discussion to its own thread, here:

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/everyday-racism.163884/

    Obviously, so-called "political correctness" is relevant to both discussions, so the two discussion are related. However, allowing the discussion to diverge so far from the initial concerns of the thread seems counterproductive. That's why I have split it.
     
    James R, Dec 22, 2020
    #191
  15. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,543
    That's nice. Have you actually checked and found when racism was first raised?
    Let me help...post 26 and 37 and then post 40
     
    paddoboy, Dec 22, 2020
    #192
  16. Xelasnave.1947

    Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    8,502
    So James..rather than address me directly you use a back handed approach..slimey indeed I thought you would never stoop so low ...now just because I hold a view that does not fit with yours does not make me insane and to suggest same I think you need to back it up...

    Tell me.
    Prove it.

    Tell me what is insane about pointing out a term which is a totally wide term put together to generate hate...show me someplace the term is used where is is not used in hate ...that's racism..end of the story...why is it any different to any other racist term...tell me...white male..all of them? You just don't get it ...take some time to understand the definition of racism.

    Show me where the term " white male" is not used in hate. Tell me why it is not offensive....

    Racism has an ingredient of painting a whole group with the one brush with racial overtones... is that or is that not a fact? And what could be a wider one brush slur than " white male"....that includes every white male one the planet..that is wide..that is racism.

    Does not the cry of " white male" paint all white males with one hateful coat of dribble.... So tell me is not calling "white males" such in the context of the obvious hate in anyway is not racism given it takes a broad brush to all white males? And in that in the context it always used not sexist...

    It is never used in a nice way..ever...so why should that not be offensive..think about it....and dont you think you could make a long list of men who are offended by the term.

    Or will you assert "white male" is never used in hatred...heck the only time I have ever seen it used is in hatred...go on lie say that I am wrong..maybe try and set me aside and up it to totally absolutely insane but for goodness sake do address the facts that are everywhere to see...even in this thread...

    My opinion does not make me insane ...got it.mate.

    Anyways that does it for me ..it was a mistake coming back...I now quit I can see no one cares to address our culture and be big minded you all just want to hate and be slime....you have sunk just too low ...fuck it's like when I pointed out the 11,000 scientists signing some climate change thing..that they were not scientists..that was a fact but you all wriggle and lied but never acknowledged the facts that my statement was the truth....you lot are hypocrites...slimey...in the way you approach things..insane for holding an opinion that is so low .....and that would not be the least offensive would it..now your next move will be a call on me to grow a set..another non sexist reference. ... why is it that you can judge others but never judge yourselves...

    And you could not say it to my face ..you could not say it to my face..you act like a coward...how can you live with yourself.


    Anyways I will let you get back to bullying old people and focus on the trivial and being ineffective which you lot all seem so good at....
    Go after the terrible folk like me and Paddo because our rational approach to life does not fit your desire to hate and abuse anyone who is not a card holding member. Do any of you people ever talk to average people...given your arrogance I expect that you would not..judgmental ...and everyone is wrong but you..funny how you all share tatal infallibility.

    Have a merry Christmas good bye.
     
    Xelasnave.1947, Dec 22, 2020
    #193
  17. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,543
    Sadly Alex, there is a history over a couple of threads where I dared raise the "not all men" meme and a couple of cases where men were falsely accused of rape, one losing his job, losing his marriage and time in jail. I made not so pretty but well deserved comments about those women. James often refers to it as where I came out poorly...one of his tired old tactics.
    So this is simply a continuation of that vendetta or crusade. Don't let it worry you too much, as I know with 100% certainty there was no sexism, misogyny or misandry on either my part or the young and middle and aged women who I interacted with, and that's what matters Alex.
    There only defence is the cry of "they had no choice!" and they "needed to think of their job" all simply excuses and some philosophical claptrap thrown in.

    And of course you are correct again re the "white male" meme having a double meaning depending on usage of course.
    Take it easy and get back OK?
     
    paddoboy, Dec 22, 2020
    #194
  18. iceaura

    iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    . No, you don't.
    That's the kind of claimed impossibility that undermines any argument you were trying to make.

    Speaking of which - what argument were you trying to make, with that "not all men" meme and so forth?
     
    iceaura, Dec 22, 2020
    #195
  19. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    Yes I damn well do! I was there and the banter and Love comments from both sides. Don't give me that crazy talk I do not know if they were serious or not.
     
    paddoboy, Dec 22, 2020
    #196
  20. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,421
    It's time you started to realise that your preferences and attitudes are not necessarily shared by everybody.

    You wouldn't have noticed if she had. You won't let yourself see that stuff. You like to pretend it could never happen.

    It is clear that, every time you interact with women who are strangers, you take inappropriate liberties and make unwarranted assumptions.

    You ought to stop that.

    There is a theme here that has come up in a number of posts, from you and from those who support your sexism. It is the apparent belief that people who don't know you can magically infer your intent and intentions when you address them.

    You people seem to think that, as long as you mean well, everything is fine and you're above reproach. That isn't the case. The reality is that people will judge your behaviour, not your intent. Your intent is invisible to everyone but you. The best others can do is to guess at what your intent might be - and risk consequences if they guess wrongly.

    The problem is easily solved. You only need to stop being a self-satisfied arsehole and change your behaviour to something less patronising and/or sleazy.

    But you've told us over and over that you won't do that. Why is that? I can only guess at your intent.
     
    James R, Dec 22, 2020
    #197
  21. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,543
    Exactly that.... "Not all men"! the same can be said? "not all women" "Or not all Politicians" nothing sinister, nothing under handed...no sublime messages, just simple comprehension.
     
    paddoboy, Dec 22, 2020
    #198
  22. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    There shared by all I have interacted with, and that's what matters.
    If that makes you happy James you keep believing it..it affects me not.
    Don't you dare tell me to stop it! If you see anything wrong with it, then become a politician [you should be good at that] and change or add some laws. In the mean time, the status quo will continue.
    Except the theme is common throughout society in general, and I find nothing at all even remotely sexist.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    I'll let you stay whatever you chose, and I'll stay the arsehole I am, OK?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Let me see, Ummmmm
    Because it is common everyday banter between people of both sexes, no sexism, no misogyny, no misandry at all[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2020
    paddoboy, Dec 22, 2020
    #199
  23. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Another "joke" at the expense of women. Ho hum.

    Oh yeah. If you post a sexist joke about men, too, that makes it acceptable to post sexist jokes about women.

    You just don't get it, do you?
     
    James R, Dec 22, 2020
    #200
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