Kill the kids and save the planet.

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by foghorn, Sep 16, 2021.

  1. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    Extinction Rebellion
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/16/m25-protesters-blocking-motorway/

    Someone I know was taking her little daughter to hospital for the girl's chemotherapy appointment, luckily the appointment could be fitted in for later that day. Stressful or what??

    I heard on local radio, a hospital consultant had to cancel his morning appointments because of the hold up.
    What the f*** are Extinction Rebellion doing?
    Old news...
    Mr Attenborough has a good point.
    Same link above.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    couple years ago
    university students did the same thing here in Iowa
    (stupid children playing in traffic)
    unfortunately
    a motorist failed to cognate that the expressway was actually full of children, and hit 2 before he brought his car to a stop
    undeterred
    another(?) group of students repeated this folly
    this time, the police confined the students to the right hand lane(not england)
    and blocked the lane with squad cars with lights flashing
    between the students and the traffic
    which seemed to make their protest meaningless

    maybe I'm just too damned old and too damned conservative---but the whole process of intending to block traffic on an expressway with their frail little bodies for a political agenda seemed really stupid and much like the actions of spoiled brats.
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Everybody trying to make a melodramatic point about killing the children knows a little kid with cancer. Every time there's a protest on a motorway, we hear about a little kid with cancer, or a father of seven who had a heart attack.

    And when we get right down to it, we lost a toddler last year because for thirty years people really need to be the only person in the car while stuck in standstill traffic on the interstate. Actually, we lose children to wildfires far more often than motorway protests kill cancer patients. And it's true, we've heard politicians and advocates pretend confusion about why people protest, or complain that such protests alienate the working public, for decades.

    Please understand, straightforward testimonial appeals to ignorance haven't changed much, over the years, but the audience has.

    Look, Britain's an island; the chance of it burning down such that a fire cyclone starts eating the children is pretty low, but there are a few people left to tell us what it was like in London amid the flames. Upside: Doncaster won't burn if it's underwater, and when the sea rises, at least they'll still have Croydon.

    Mr. King, of the AA, sounds like he could be played by any of the whatshisname character actors chuffing through roles as scheming property developers, overstuffed university presidents, or corrupt city councilmen in T&A comedies thirty-five years ago.° Gay people coming out of the closet can hear stories about how they're being stressful to little kids, or alienate the general public, pretty much any day.

    Comparatively: When I was young, sometimes we tried too hard, while writing, to imitate others, but the way those writers used words was something we wanted to learn. When I was even younger, imitation was a developmental behavior essential to socialization. Somewhere in between, though, is a range I never understood, when people start becoming things they disdain. With my generation, it's one thing if, for instance, one isn't punk, anymore. But if our metalheads all too often and predictably falter and fade into Christendom, the part when punks become the chuffing stuffed shirts they used sneer at is the one that really stings.

    Mark Steel has an old joke about chuffy British conservatism that goes, approximately: Saw someone walking down the street today, long hair, bushy beard, couldn't tell if it was a man or a woman!

    And the thing is that when bicyclists answered the argument about not building more bike lanes because there aren't many bicyclists on the road, opponents pretended the same sort of confusion. When people were told this is what it looks like when you have a lot of bicycles on the road, and this is why you need to build more bike lanes, local chuff said the same stuff about alienating the working public, and wondered what the fuck those activists were doing.

    Once upon a time, maybe, there was a comfort in communal idiocy, but the thing about playing the chuffy role is that it never really has made sense to make a point of insistently presenting oneself as clueless and confused. The joke about the British reaction to the Sexual Revolution helps draw the distinction: Chuffing ignorance and incompetence only works as an argument among a sympathetic audience; sixty years ago, pretending confusion wasn't merely obstinate cruelty, but also a manner of codespeak by which it was easier for sympathetic people to dismiss a question instead of answer it, e.g., brush it off instead of actually follow the argument about why a man should not wear his hair long to its inevitable conclusion. And, no, that's not just the British. And, sure, there are places and circumstances where this sort of behavior still passes muster, but part of what changed is the audience, so pretentiously ignorant chuff doesn't play nearly as well the nth time around.

    Additionally, living where I do, it's also true that I would have to be told this was the reason for the backup. Traffic is bad enough as it is, so if we add in perpetual road construction, as well as the daily collection of collisions, breakdowns, police encounters, and other routine obstruction, we don't even need it to be a game day; the only reason we would bother getting mad at a protest is because it's a change in routine, and something different to cuss out compared to any other day. But the day ends with -y; traffic sucks.

    Our antisocial neighbor↗ pretty much nails it, being "too damned old and too damned conservative" to think the people he disagrees anything other than "really stupid and much like … spoiled brats".

    Seriously, women hear it from men about where misogyny comes from; Black people hear it from whites; gays heard it from Christians; there's even one about how opposing Nazis only alienates people and deters them from not being Nazis. And the British, I mean, holy shit, the chuffy old conservatives in Britain are just freaking vindictive, like the bits with the trees.

    So, anyway, what are any of you going to do, go drive around just to burn some gas and show those environmentalists what-for? It's like a few weeks ago, when my Twitter feed was aglow with folks from the east coast posting pictures of extraordinary sunsets, and, yes, our burning forests and their interesting sunsets are among the bonuses we all win for our single-occupancy SUV triumph over mass transit and terrorism. If you're still at the 「What the fuck are the activists doing?」 part of the script, you're way behind schedule.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    ° Okay, not John Vernon, who never would have agreed to that dumb of a line.
     
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  7. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, I'm reading you, it's okay to kill kids when protesting because everyone knows someone with a kid who has cancer.

    Reading you still, it's okay to kill kids when protesting, because wildfires kill kids too.

    Reading you still..Even if Britain did burn down in a fire cyclone and kill kids, it's okay for protesters to kill kids.


    Yes, you still do find it hard don't you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
  8. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    General cynical rule (but no claim to correctness 100% of the time):

    Regardless of whether they peg as Evangelical or Leftangelical or degrees of political gospel in between...

    Obnoxious crusaders, revolutionaries, and jingoists being abominable in the name of a "good cause" or "humanitarianism" or "challenging/obstructing a menace" are just more opportunists. Or plain, monomaniacal nutjobs and affluent educatees with boring lives should they not be profiting measurably in some way. ("Profiting" referring to a potential range of emotional, self-esteem, and redemptive perks among the exploitive possibilities for the overall herd, not mere monetary benefits and career sky-lifts via publicity for the leaders.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Well, it's not exactly a secret that you should not be taken seriously↗.
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,635
    Every protest, ever, has been described that way.

    The lunch counter protest in the South? Lazy uppity blacks who are getting in the way of decent folk just trying to earn a living.
    Rosa Parks? No one is going to take a black woman seriously when she willingly makes herself into a criminal. Just an opportunist trying to get in the news. Throw her in jail where she belongs.
    The Million Man March? Do you know how many kids with cancer were delayed by THAT abomination? Yeah, like anyone is going to decide "oh now we should love blacks because my kid died."
    Vietnam War protests? Just America-hating hippies who couldn't be bothered to fight for their country; they are probably Commie spies. They belong in jail.
    Martin Luther King? He just wants to be on TV. Shameless opportunist and showman, trying to trick inferior races into taking what rightfully belongs to white society. Why, he should be shot.

    If a protest is well liked - it's not a protest, and it doesn't work.
     
    C C and cluelusshusbund like this.
  11. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,453
    You're just referring back to posts where I had a pop at your writing style before, get over it.


    My OP refers to people putting other peoples' lives at risk for Global warming.
    Note: Not all protestors are fighting for the same cause. The protestors, OP, were stopping people ,in some cases, of getting to hospital appointments, funerals and maybe a loved one's last moments on their deathbed. Who can make the connection>>> Global warming and Nazis, Black people, gays, misogyny, Christians, British conservative and vindictive.
    Tiassa can...
    Now, do you see why I don't take your waffling posts too seriously, there are only a few on this site, that I might take the time to read their long posts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe your critique would be more useful if your reading comprehension wasn't in the gutter.

    (Or is that a feature, not a bug?)
     
  13. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Alright! Though not a direct connection, it's nice to finally see "opportunist" and a term implying white people as potential members occur somewhere together in these vintage rote recitals that the Soc Shop dispenses to its flocks. Even though it's kind of like hitting the plantains by ricochet via a thrown ball, when the actual satirical target was either of the banana bins on both sides of the grocery aisle.

    Amir Tinsley Reddick: "That they accuse me of exploitation is the highest form of flattery. It means that my paternalistic white shepherds are no longer patronizing me, using me. That I've not only achieved parity in their wily eyes, but have become what they consider a threat nudging them out of their own racket."
     
  14. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,453
    Now, how shall I reply to that?
    Do I answer as a Nazis, gay basher, misogynist, Christian or British conservative?
    Remember I'm pegged as a Nazi, you're getting off lightly.
    This is surreal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Here is an interesting comparison:

    While vaccines and mask policies are viewed favorably by most Canadians, the vocal minority who oppose them are a growing threat — not only to public health, but to public safety and even democracy itself.

    In recent weeks, anti-vaccine protests have drawn angry, unruly crowds outside hospitals and other health care facilities across Canada, blocking patients and employees trying to access the buildings, and in at least one instance, forcing cancer patients to get out of cars and walk through the unmasked mob. Protesters have reportedly verbally and physically assaulted health care workers, while others have used social media to issue threats of violence against doctors and nurses.


    (Orr↱; boldface accent added))​

    Yes, that really happened:

    It was an ‘inconsiderate' and ‘heartbreaking' scene as some cancer patients were forced to get out of cars and walk through a majority of unmasked, angry crowds in order to make their treatments and appointments.

    In the early afternoon Wednesday, thousands of demonstrators loudly protested COVID-19 vaccine policies and mask mandates right outside a number of B.C. hospitals ....

    .... Wednesday was [Dawna] Faulds's 51-year-old brother, Ed Prentice's, second to last day for chemotherapy. But because of the massive crowd, she had to drop her immunocompromised brother four or five blocks away.

    "I can't express how angry I was. I was furious. And I wanted to lash out at them. But had I have done that — and any of them come near me — I'm afraid I probably might have got sick, who knows who's a carrier. And my brothers in the car. I can't do that. But it was incredibly frustrating."

    What's especially heartbreaking for Faulds to think about is if he was a little bit sicker or going through radiation, "He would not have been able to make that walk, and he probably would have missed his time."

    "He certainly shouldn't have had to do it through to walk through crowds and a bunch of people that are anti-vaccine. It's dangerous. The small virus can kill him. Especially right now, there's nobody with lower immune systems than people undergoing chemotherapy."


    (Aslam, MacMahon, and Martins↱)

    Mr. Prentice was not the only patient so endangered:

    Another patient, Qian Yin, says she also dealt with the stress of not knowing if she'd make her appointment as her volunteer driver found himself unable to get to the cancer clinic. The Burnaby woman has Stage 4 cancer, and was also blocked by hundreds of anti-vaxxers.

    Yin ultimately was forced to get out and walk partway to her chemo appointment, despite feeling nauseous and tired.

    "I was so worried, because I don't want to miss or like late for those chemotherapy because it's so important for me … every three weeks have to do chemo."

    This can't go anywhere good.

    Still, if we're to cry for the proverbial cancer patients, well, compared to Billvon's↑ suggestion that, "Every protest, ever, has been described that way", we also have a comparison of what it looks like when the protest is actually trying to kill cancer patients.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Aslam, Sonia, Martin MacMahon, and Nikitha Martins. "B.C. cancer patients forced to walk through mob of protesters to get to chemo appointments". News 1130. 2 September 2021. CityNews1130.com. 20 September 2021. https://bit.ly/3zqxTyA

    Orr, Caroline. "Shocking anti-vaccine protests that plagued Canada’s election spawned resurgent far-right movement". National Observer. 19 September 2021. 19 September 2021. NationalObserver.com. 20 September 2021. https://bit.ly/3Cxdwlx
     
  16. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,453

    Notice this protestor kicking out at the Nazi that finally drags the ER activist down.
    Later in clip the Nazi Mayor of London (Sadiq Khan) condemned the Demo.
     
  17. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    What was that in there? "They [perversely] chose an environmentally friendly form of transport for today's [...] campaign"?

    Imagine if a Christian cult was disrupting transportation, trafffic, etc in a major city to promote their message that doomsday was nigh. Aside from being labeled nuts, they'd be construed as pretentious attention-whores exalting themselves as noble crusaders devoted to warning and rescuing the sinning populace from their misguided ways and looming destruction.

    However, a "real" or legitimate righteous cause does justify intruding on a selected survival nexus of civilization; or alternatively (and figuratively) defecating on staid, weather-stained idols of whatever reigning establishment. To garner temporary or sustained news worthiness.

    The Soapbox Speech Channel: "Yes, obviously I am a white sphincter and resident of the insidious Western World. But I am more honorable than that segment of my kind who consist of loathsome knuckle-draggers. I am consumed with guilt and exhibit constant hand-wringing, and have a hotline to a new stratosphere of moral enlightenment. I champion good causes, revere socio-economic analysis, and fart altruistic-appearing ideologies and policies like a bovine methane producer.

    "Follow me, follow me -- those who are reformist and redemptive enough to hear the call. I'm not an opportunist. Please do not think that I'm another opportunist, just because I'm stuck with the facade of a white sphincter and bear a faint tactical resemblance to Elmer Gantry. I can't do anything about those accidental features.

    "In another life, I was actually an oppressed victim and understand what it's like to be downtrodden. Let us -- those of virtuous superiority -- challenge the wicked Morlocks and save the world from unbridled capitalism, climate change and cultural hegemony. Hallelujah, praise the pantheon of our intellectual forebears!"
     
  18. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    So, you agree, it's okay to kill kids to save mankind from global warming?
    oh dear, first I'm a Nazi, now I'm a ''white'' asshole racist.
    I can only put it down to the affects of global warming.
    Look at the vid again, how many ''knuckle-draggers'' do you count?
    This is so surreal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
  19. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,453
    The Motorway protest... Re: OP
    One of the protestors stopping traffic on the motorway said...
    '' I don't really accept that we have put other lives at risk.''
    "I'm not worried about other people.''
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-58636399
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
  20. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Kate Hapstedd: "Hah, do you see? That's right, oh ancient Sower of Confusion. I'm that good at this. What's up and what's down, now? Is that North or South? Are we walking East or West? If you actually existed, you'd be very, very afraid of your losing job. Even those parody temples of yours will soon be mine." --Lost in Boxwood Forest
     
  21. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, okay. Maybe the applicable adage here is: "Never rely on a Kate Hapstedd cite to clear things up. Usually the opposite occurs."

    Sorry, can't break the Fourth Wall for every instance of sarcasm impairment that comes along. You hand out one free pass to go behind it, and pretty soon everybody wants one.

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    That's just a generalized caricature showcased there on TSSC, not a specific individual.

    Seriously, though, aside from that _X_ being one of the privileged (i.e., white)...

    ... You even identified with _X_'s wannabe career desires (politician, leader of an activist movement, etc)? What's that about? You got some secret ambitions, or have they already been fulfilled?

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    Alright, alright. Rude to pry into personal affairs. I get it...
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Would you really expect to be taken seriously?

    Or, to take you seriously: Is your poor reading comprehension a deliberate component of your performance, or an actual reading comprehension problem?

    I don't really care about either your cosplay or intimacy.

    Oh, for ... fine, whatever: No, pegging ain't heavy enough.

    That's not quite the word I'd use for it. At least you're not getting pegged as a British housewife; that would be surreal.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,635
    Love these sort of arguments.

    Guy 1: I like hamburgers.
    Guy 2: So you agree it's OK to abuse, torture and murder animals for no reason?
     

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