The Anti-Christ?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Ariadne2525, Jan 27, 2001.

  1. Ariadne2525 Member Registered Senior Member

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    I'm doing a bit of research for my own benefit or whatnot. But I can't seem to find a place with decent information on the Anti-Christ! Could anyone possibly help me here?

    (As for the reason for this question, I have a teeny lil' theory about the Anti-Christ, but I need to do a bit of researching for it.)
     
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  3. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Try the Bibles. Go to the source.

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  5. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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  7. Emerald Registered Senior Member

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    And now for a completely different viewpoint, click here: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6074/super.html">Anti-Christ, Superstar</a>

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    An ye harm none, do what ye will.
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Three citations that hit me off the top of my head; these should be available in used/secondhand shops (Davidson, Russell), and new shops as well, (Davidson, Pagels).

    Davidson, Gustav. A Dictionary of Angels, including the Fallen Angels. New York: Free/Macmillan, 1967.

    * I love this thing; it's described on its cover, by Time magazine as "A wacky and wonderful compendium of angelic lore." At any rate, it's exactly what it sounds like; an alphabetic listing of angels' names, and capsules of varying length describing the traditions surrounding the angels, including a pretty good bibliography, and several appendices including medieval spells, angelic alphabet, and other fun stuff.

    Russell, Jeffrey Burton. Lucifer: The Devil in the Middle Ages. Ithaca: Cornell, 1984.

    * I battered Exosci with this for a couple of weeks in '99. Burton made his reputation as a writer exploring religious superstition, focusing largely on the Devil. As a writer who has not yet, it seems, abandoned the idea that evil is a controllable deviation from nature, Burton provides an excellent picture of the developing superstitions surrounding the Devil in the philosophical explorations of Christianity, and, to some extent, Islam.

    Pagels, Elaine. The Origin of Satan. New York: Random House, 1995.

    Hands-down, this is the best work I've come across on the Devil. Somewhat compact (214 pgs, incl. index & notes), the book is essentially a perspective on the development of satan/Satan in apocalyptic Judaism and early Christianity, focusing largely on the socio-political conditions present during the writing of each gospel. I was actually looking for a book on Satan when I came across this, and bought it instantly because I had used the second chapter of the book as a citation in a paper in about '94, when that chapter was merely an article entitled The Social History of Satan. But I recommend this book above most; it's really quite ... amazing.

    There's stuff there on the web, too, but I've had severely less luck. Places like bible.org and newadvent.org are pretty cool (Newadvent includes the Knights of Columbus' Catholic Encyclopaedia), but remembering that they're Christian-oreinted sites, one must remember the obvious biases (I'm thinking of the Encyclopaedia, which sometimes borders on the hilarious; it isn't that they're flat-out liars, but that they dismiss less-relevant or contradictory ideas so easily one wonders if this ideological rigidity hasn't spilled over into society in general). But that's the problem with the Web right now; the really big projects still aren't done. When the whole world has access to Harvard Divinity's library ( http://www.hds.harvard.edu/library/ ... I think you need a Harvard ID, but someday ) we'll be making some progress. (I'm waiting for Emerald to humiliate me on that one.

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    It's out there, though, if you read through the editorializations all around. Good luck in your search. And let us know how the theory works out.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  9. Emerald Registered Senior Member

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    Tiassa,

    Humiliate you? Me? Perish the thought! Well, since you asked...

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    Here is a webpage from that site which offers <a href="http://www.hds.harvard.edu/library/internet/online_journals.html">Online Journals with Full Text</a>, a few of which are free to everyone. The introduction on that page states, "This list, compiled for the Harvard Divinity School community, includes approximately 250 religious, theological, and philosophical journals, magazines, newsletters, as well as other select serial titles in the humanities and social sciences." There is also a link on that page to the <a href="http://rosetta.atla-certr.org/CERTR/e-journals.html">American Theological Library Association</a>.

    Great link, Tiassa! Thanks!

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  10. Ariadne2525 Member Registered Senior Member

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    Well, I was hoping that when I researched the AntiChrist, facts would support me, but, oh, well!

    I was just playing with this idea of the antichrist being someone who actually believed in God the Holy Spirit and all that, but just despised the church and what it has become, and before I knew it I had an awesome story with demons, angels, hot guys (!!!!!), action, romance, and I needed more info on the antichrist to get it going! *cry*

    But everything I've read so far hasn't supported my story idea, so I'm just going to go ahead and make it an all-around fantasy.

    Thanks for your Help!

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  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    It happens; the story will do what it will. Let it rise from the vapors, and other silly images. Was it Michelangelo who said that he sculpted nothing, that the form existed already and all he did was clear the extra pieces away?

    Incidentally, I wanted to mention that if you make it pure fantasy, you'll have a better approach than some of the theological fictionists around the market today. A quick anecdote:

    * While flying from New Orleans to Seattle, I spent one leg of the trip (N.O. to Phoenix) sitting beside a lovely, intellectual, quietly religious couple. In fact, I only say religious because of the wife's reading choice. The gentleman was some sort of teacher; rarely do I see people plowing through Boorstein's The Americans with such enthusiasm (it weighs 22 pounds). But his wife, whom I did not actually speak to directly, was reading the latest paperback release in that end-of-the-world series by LaHaye (I think). As the stewards collected the last of the plastic cups, the woman put the book away and I heard her husband say, "Did you finish your book?"

    The answer, here, is very important. Recall, please, that she has been reading a book on the Apocalypse. She smiled cheerfully and told her husband, "It was really, really good. You know? And the whole time, I didn't know how it was going to end."

    I guess originality counts for something. But how do you write the blurb on that: The Apocalypse is coming and the Devil assembles his power ... does God have what it takes to win the day?

    Didn't know how it was going to end ...

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    Best o'luck w/the tale. Maybe you can teach 'em all something or another about it, too.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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    Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet. (Khaavren of Castlerock)

    [This message has been edited by tiassa (edited January 29, 2001).]
     
  12. Ariadne2525 Member Registered Senior Member

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    Thanks for your support, Tiassa!

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    I really hope my story falls together! *crosses fingers*

    Now, just have to wait for that spark of inspiration that gets it all started...

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    *taps foot impatiently*
     
  13. Ariadne2525 Member Registered Senior Member

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    Huh? I just wanna write a story, not become a Satanist....

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  14. MoonCat Registered Senior Member

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    Emerald,

    Hey lady, long time no see!

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    I checked out your Antichrist superstar link...very nice. I love the stuff you turn up.

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    Too bad Lori's not around anymore, I bet she'd have something to say on that one, considering how "into" the antichrist she is.

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  15. Lori Registered Senior Member

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    Hi Everyone!

    Long time, no debate! I see it's same old, same old out here...keep up the good work! I love you guys! And my take on this topic can be summed up by saying that the Antichrist and the aliens will be like this *crossing fingers*. Ask yourself what could occur on this earth that would possibly promote a one world religion and economy? And the answer is.....a mass landing.

    There now, don't ya miss me? Later, taters!

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    You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.
     
  16. Boris Senior Member Registered Senior Member

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    OMG, I think I just had a heart attack...

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  17. Emerald Registered Senior Member

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    Hey MoonCat!!

    Happy Imbolc!

    It's been ages! I'm not on this board much these days - too much going on. I'll have to email you about it later.

    Yeah, I love the provocative stuff, as you well know! The only problem is it doesn't seem to provoke much of anything these days. Bummer.

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    Speak o' the devil, I guess you got your wish! (Hi Lori - good to see ya!)

    Blessings,

    Emerald



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    An ye harm none, do what ye will.
     
  18. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Does ‘Anti-Christ’ imply a single individual or can it mean a philosophical position? For example I am anti-Christian, but I also have reason to believe that the alleged individual known as Jesus never existed, and as he is also assumed to be the Christ then I am anti-Christ, or should I say I am an anti-Christ?
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Cris--

    Though it may sound dismissive, and quite possibly typical of me ... oh, heck, but ... it seems it only matters to Christians.

    Oh, heck, indeed. As I had forgotten for the briefest of moments that ideas derived therein constitute the biggest portion of the American superstition.

    Okay, so a better answer: You are an antichrist. All things told, you are not, however, the antichrist.

    On that note, let me then theorize that The Antichrist, as such, will probably be a single human product of a broader philosophy. We see that much of what you or I might regard as the most potentially positive or progressive aspects of the Christian philosophy is predated at least by Buddhism. It seems that the Christ figure attributed in the Bible combined a number of less tangible, personal facets in the advancement of a particular set of ideas.

    Likewise, I think that The Antichrist will probably be an individual bearing a broad--diverse--philosophical heritage, who also combines the rhetorical savvy and personal charisma necessary to drive the final nail into the ol' rugged cross. What Christianity fears in its Antichrist might well be the individual who can assemble the forces of history, anthropology, psychology, and--their common neighbor--metaphysics into a cohesive whole which the superstitions of Christianity will no longer be able to subvert, suppress, oppress, malign, or otherwise escape.

    Subtract "church" from the image of Jesus. You're left with an idea of an extremely charismatic political reformer, and a footnote regarding the close bonds 'twixt politics and religion existing in his day. To affect the body politic, you must also affect the body religious. Maybe Robyn Hitchcock was right when he asserted that the Antichrist would be Jesus, pissed off for having bled for two-thousand years in a cheesecloth-draped waiting room while all that love was outright wasted.

    In any case, I will also side with Mr Hitchcock in his assertion that if the Devil lives among us, he carries a walkman.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  20. MoonCat Registered Senior Member

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  21. Lori Registered Senior Member

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    I want to ask a question of all of you...when the aliens come, and there also comes a man who in conjunction with these false prophets, heads up a one world religion, and a one world economy, and requires a genetic change (mark of the beast), in order to participate in the system, and survive upcoming cataclysmic earth changes, and requires a denial of Jesus as Saviour, and is killed, and then resurrected by the spirit of Satan himself, and the rapture happens, and they pass it off by saying that all of us Christians were too close-minded to participate in the change and impending new spiritual millenium, so we had to be taken to another planet, and so on and so on, will you guys still think the Bible's a trumped up pos?

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    You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.
     
  22. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Lori,

    Fortunately the bible is pure mythology so your hypothetical scenario has a zero probability of realization.

    But anything would be better than being a slave to the Christian god who can only be seen as a vicious terrorist thug, who has said worship me and do what I tell you or else I'll make you suffer in the most horrifying manner beyond imagination.

    It also lies about love while maiming and killing millions of people in 'acts of god'.

    But I'll hold back on what I really think.

    Cris
     
  23. tony1 Jesus is Lord Registered Senior Member

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    Well, if Christ doesn't exist, you'd have to call yourself anti-nothing.
     

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