The USA needs to change from Neoliberalism toward a Democratic-Socialist system

On Germany:
The danger of having an overfed population (both literally as figuratively) is that people suffocate in their own laws and regulations. Let’s assume wasigermany is correct and you can eternally live of other’s peoples’ taxes – what remains is the fact that any kind of initiative is blocked by a mass of bureaucracy that no other country shall attempt to achieve. You cannot even sell a chicken “over the fence” to your neighbour. An “adult” system allows its members to take care of themselves, just by facilitating their ability to come up with new ideas and to realize them. This is not the case in Germany. For everything there is some paragraph/some article in a Law. For me it is one thing to be fed by my government, and a completely different one to let it happen to me. I would die from shame and frustration.

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hey sparkie ,you get me wrong ! (and you have really no clue what you are talking about )
and yes ,we have a lot of laws here ,but who cares about most of them ?
also what you told about "chicken over the fence" is nonsense !!!

i´ll leave you now alone ;gonna buy me some "dope over the fence" and smoke it ( eyeyey ,we have laws for it.......

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:m:

 

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No. Go live in Europe if you want to be some neo-communist. I prefer a libertarian, free-market style system.

 

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Re: USA IS A RICH NATION FULL OF POOR PEOPLE

Yeah, it must be real horrible if our poor people can afford cable TV, candy, and all the other stuff that the "rich" people of other nations can't afford.

Yeah. Shame.

 

Jerrek,
http://www.balochistanpost.com/item.aspx?id=4139

 

Been there, read that already. What is your point? Americans have a higher standard of living, on average, than any other country in the world. Yes, there are some extreme poverty and some extreme rich people, but the average line in the U.S. is much higher than it is in Europe. You can barely afford one car, your houses are tin boxes or high rises with no lawn or garden, etc.

Yuck.

 

How were those statistic made? Did they just take who could apply for foodstamps and then figure in that those that didn't were hungry? Because then of course Oregon will be up there on the hunger list they have alot of farmers and stable hands that may be poor one day but they don't need food stamps.

Ohh and California is a welfare state of course they are going down the tubes.

 

Jerrek,

If you take into account Europe in general, including Eastern European countries, you are right. In Western European countries the standard of living per household is perhaps a tad lower, but i would hesitate to call it "much".

Again, this differs from your location within Europe. From my point of view, dependent on your choice of career of course, you can very well have more than one car and, moreover, it is not unusual.

Granted, the prices for a square meter in the major cities are... ridiculous and few people can afford a spacious house there. But that is only capitalism at work: there is a huge demand for an appartment overviewing the city life of Berlin, Amsterdam, and so on and very little supply.

However, family houses for middle income classes are found in smaller cities in the vicinity of the capitals and they are often range well into the 4-7 rooms and do have a garden. Enough space for an average family, i'd say. Do you want something bigger, then there's always the rural areas.

 

Congrats:
"Well, I do agree that a totally free market would be somewhat utopian, or rather idealistic. We do need a certain amount of controls to keep sanity.

However, business cycles are far from unnatural. Would you rather have 50 years of growth that ends in 25 years of depression, or 6 years of growth that ends in 3 years of reccession? Eternal growth simply can't be achieved.

Also, I don't connect the creation of a welfare state with the better state of today's poor. The economic and technoloical growth since WW2, right through the 80's, is the cause. "

Firstly, your right about the free market. But as for the Business cycles, they are the result of current situation, but that doesnt mean they arent wasteful and stupid. And yes, eternal growth cant be achieved, that is the point. What else drives the current situation except eternal growth? If we dont keep growing eternally, we are told, there wont be enough stuff for everyone. Except that is a lie. There is already enough for most people, just the small matter of money.


Ahh, but me and plenty of others, studies and suchlike connect the welfare state with the better condition of todays poor. Think back to the 19the century. What happened when you were put out of work? You starved. So what happens now? You dont starve. isnt that better?

 

Oh yes, and jerrek, why are you living in Canada, i think you said?

"For me it is one thing to be fed by my government, and a completely different one to let it happen to me. I would die from shame and frustration."

Oddly enough, many people agree with you, thats why they get back to work quickly.

"what remains is the fact that any kind of initiative is blocked by a mass of bureaucracy that no other country shall attempt to achieve. "

Oddly enough, that happens also when large companies attempt to keep themselves going. By buying out the competitors, dirty tricks, etc.

"Yeah, it must be real horrible if our poor people can afford cable TV, candy, and all the other stuff that the "rich" people of other nations can't afford. "

YOu jest. Seriously, you are mad if you think they can. DO you know what the average wage in the USA is? Do you know how deeply in debt people are? Have you any idea how many poeple cant even afford to house themselves and sleep in cars etc?

 

i also want to mention that some people even need a second job !

 

Libertarianism is foolishness. Take your toys and go home.

 

A recent study by the Swedish Institute of Trade shows that, not only is Swedish family income WELL BELOW that of Americans, it is BELOW that of BLACK Americans -- the study used "fixed prices and purchasing power parity adjusted data," to show that by the late 1990s the avg. family income in Sweden was $26,800 while in the US it was $39,400;

That irrevalent the United States didn't have much capital to go around in the 19th century as it did today. Still they didn't starve. Look at the 1950s unemployment and poverty were dropping when the 1960s LBJ's great society took place dependency on the goverment rose greatly.

39,400-32,192 I believe. This also includes children with part-time jobs. If somebody buys stuff with credit is it my fault? Do you know what we use to do with the homeless? We use to institutionalize them. With civil rights though we had to let them go. DId you know that more then half of those below the poverty level will one day be in the upper 20%? Not much of a class war in the USA if you ask me. Why is this? Think about it, when you start working you don't make much money kids are poor. Adults usually make more on average then somebody just starting thier carreer.

 

Thaug,

What those figures probably do not show is the curve of distribution of wealth. Come to think of it, I'm not only interested in the amount a family has on average, i'm also wondering about the relative amount of families that are within, say, 10 percent of this average income.

 

@WasiGermany
LOL Wrong address. Unfortunately I have a degree in agriculture (and that includes studying legislation pertaining to it). From Germany. Too bad, eh?
http://bundesrecht.juris.de/bundesrecht/hgb/index.html
http://bundesrecht.juris.de/bundesrecht/lwg/index.html

To come back to the general discussion: a good solution would be to maybe swap populations instead of changing governments. Whoever misses freedom shall move to a suited country. People who think they need a restrictive government may move to a dictatorship. A poor isolated country? Just go there. Going all for globalization – the choice is yours. By that way there would be more content people around, because it seems immigrants tend to be less critical of their host-governments anyway.

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Jerrek, you're on drugs or something? I live more or less in "East" Europe. There are four of us members in our family, we are an average family with average incomes, we have a garden and three average cars and savings that equal 4 annual salaries. We also have a firm house (not like many of those in USA that are build out of wood and that fall apart already after a breeze).

All our neighbours are average families with 4 and more members as well. They all have at least 2 cars and a firm house with garden.

Overall over here living standard is low compared to western world, but we live a good live and we are not shortened of anything. This living standard does not say anything about how good or bad people in reality live. It's just a statistical number that holds up to one point and after that it fails to prove anything.

You're rambling, Jerrek!

Take care,


Hamlet

 

"A recent study by the Swedish Institute of Trade shows that, not only is Swedish family income WELL BELOW that of Americans, it is BELOW that of BLACK Americans -- the study used "fixed prices and purchasing power parity adjusted data," to show that by the late 1990s the avg. family income in Sweden was $26,800 while in the US it was $39,400;"

Thats jsut money and purchasing power. If you can make everything you need yoruself, you dont need purchasing power. And whats the swedish institute of trade trying to promote? consumerism and trade, to make people "richer? When will you guys learn there is more to life than money?


"That irrevalent the United States didn't have much capital to go around in the 19th century as it did today. Still they didn't starve. Look at the 1950s unemployment and poverty were dropping when the 1960s LBJ's great society took place dependency on the goverment rose greatly. "

It didnt? Are you sure it didnt just have enough food and suchlike? It sure had plenty of people looking for work, thats human capital that was surplus to requirements. And yes they did starve, or died early due to poor nutrition. I dont know about LBJ's great society, but I would have thought it more obvious that part of the real reason things got better was the technolgy, independent of any economic or political system. A near democracy helps it get better utilised, although not necessarily as well as anyone would like. But the gvt plays its part, as lender of last resort, guarantor of money, injections of cash. You do know the defence industry spending helped prop up the US economy? And how regulation helps keep things better for workers. here in the UK, when the health and safety executive cut their inspecitons there was an immediate rise in number of deaths and injuries at work.

" DId you know that more then half of those below the poverty level will one day be in the upper 20%? Not much of a class war in the USA if you ask me. Why is this? Think about it, when you start working you don't make much money kids are poor. Adults usually make more on average then somebody just starting thier carreer."

You really think so? Which half? in which century? the rags to riches thing is a myth. There is plenty of class war in your history, your just ignoring it.
AS for begginer workers getting paid less, thats perfectly normal. But elaking about that is distracting from the real situation for millions of workers and unemplyed. Not to mention the immigrants who will work for less than americans, thus driving wages down as a whole. Of course, when wages go down, so does purchasing ability. Hence the increase in borrowing. Perhaps you dont seem to relaise how much your economy is based on borrowing and debt, and how that will affect you if it all collapses like a house of cards.

 

Or separate populations by race/tribe/caste as is traditional.

 

(sorry ,off-topic)
uhmmm.....what do you want to show me with those links ?
that there are many laws here ?
are you living in usa ? lol man ,you guys over there have the funniest laws i´ve ever seen ......
(for example you can´t kick your woman out of the bed (can´t remember the state where this law comes from)