Meditation Guide

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by Zero, Jun 25, 2002.

  1. Rajagopals Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    167
    Attaining nothingness is certainly not a goal for a beginner, but I'm interested in what steps one use to get there?

    The question is surely very interesting as this indicates a very pure mind who likes to follow “the path of a bird”. As per the Eastern philosophy there are two ways to the ultimate stage the ‘path of a bird’ (which directly flies to the fruit and eat it) ‘path of an ant’ (which slowly starts from the root of big tree moves very slow, wander here and there and may or may not reach the fruit at all). ‘Path of the bird’ is attained by the blessing of a great Guru, ‘path of the ant’ is just what we all do. The question also indicates that the person has already received initiation in to a method of practice of meditation and started to have question which his/her Guru couldn’t explain !

    http://www.lifepositive.com/Body/yoga/ashtanga-yoga.asp

    http://www.lifepositive.com/Spirit/meditation/how-to-meditate.asp

    Can anyone shed any light on the form of meditation where a person rids his mind of all conscious thought?

    Dharana – Assumption and practice of a belief which reassures a method to a goal

    Dhyanam – Continuous practice of that belief till the mind gets convinced about the result

    Samadhi – Stage where the mind gets relieved of the thoughts and reasons that forced to Dharana and Dhyanam

    This Samadhi is what you are referring as the stage where mind gets rid of a conscious thought.

    There are hundreds of methods which result in the Samadhi (precisely Sanchara Samadhi).

    I am very sure Kenny G gets this during his concerts
    I am very sure Mother Theresa got it when she helped a needy person
    I am very sure Michael Shoemaker gets it during his race
    I am very sure you would have got this when you first kissed a girl !!!
    I am very sure all of us get this in one way or other, but the question here is “you want it when you want it, and that too the way you want it”. That is also easy provided you are convinced completely! You convince yourself of the final goal of such a thought then the same feeling (Samadhi) could be achieved just by thinking of such a thing!

    Samadhi is permanent, the practice of Samadhi is called ‘Sanchara Samadhi’ (itinerant Samadhi) which is the one attained by all of us (very rarely) and all those who are listed above. Or else every day events in life will create lots of Yogis around us ! Sanchara Samadhi is easy to attain but ‘Samadhi’ is quite difficult to attain.

    Samadhi as explained in Eastern philosophy is a state of the Self (Aham) to stay within a physical body as if pretending death, but at the same time be alert about the physical and material world. A saint is one who has attained Samadhi. Samadhi is nothing but a stage were you deliberately decide to change in to a never ending hibernation mode. There are Yogis who practice Sanchara Samadhi prior to attaining Samadhi. They meditate within closed rooms or chamber for days or months together without even moving or even breathing.

    The question - “form of meditation to get rid of thoughts” The answer – do anything that gives you focus, be it music, be it sex, be it karate, be it divination or even meditation, be sure to do it with a heart full of belief and respect, it will surely lead you to a Sanchara Samadhi. Once you attain that, then it is recommended to go for Samadhi. And the path to Samadhi is only through Sanchara Samadhi. So enjoy life to the best then later when the heart, soul and mind is full better think of Samadhi.

    But if you feel the time has come for Samadhi you better search for a Guru who can bless you with some Vidya (real knowledge) of Pranayama (meditation in its right form). Ajapa is a practice of meditation in which the practitioner does not chant anything {Ajapa – means without Japa (chant)} and is nothing but a breathing practice. But do not waste your time and money with people like Ajapa.org or some one who will teach you the same at cost, but do search for a person who will advice you this practice with utmost love and affection and specifically without asking for favour in return.

    First the Guru imparts to the disciple’s pranan (soul) real method of Yogic breathing, or the first initiation to the practice of Ajapa and teach him the real breathing technique where the two breaks in the natural breath is avoided. Disciple upon practice learns to avoid the two natural breaks in his breathing. (Results: Life changes to a positive direction, change in attitude, become more energetic, more adamant, more strict on life styles, more belief in Guru). He is then thought to seal the 9 imaginary (as English limits the expression) holes in the body. Disciple practices this to get better results from meditation (Results: Disciple start to change completely and feel the blessing up on him by the way luck supports him). But still the breath is so wide that the complete power of the breath is not taken out, so the next step is advised, which makes his breath thin down and get more powerful (Results: Sidhi, power to stop natural thing, more adamant character, very arrogant nature, lot of accidents !!! –anything and everything has an equal and opposite reaction

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    ). Then to make his ego disappear Guru breaks the clay mould with new techniques which stands totally different from all what he learned till date, he is taught the practice of breaking his breath in to minor divisions and practicing mediation on the same with utmost control which leads to very control of self (Result: Ego disappears, Sidhi is no more practiced, love to be aligned with nature, more Guru Bhakti). The truth about the energy centers (charka) in the body are revealed automatically and meditation effects on each is explained with its result (Results: Disciple becomes a holy man). He is then taught about the meditation points for Samadhi and taught how to practice Sanchara Samadhi for the same (Result: Withdrawal from normal life style and maunam (silence) is practiced more). Last stage of, authority to teach some one else as well as permission to take Samadhi is given in a grant ceremony, and the Guru takes Samadhi soon. (Result: Sivamayam (You better search the meaning of this word yourself!)).

    Next stage, is what individual decides and the freedom achieved is nothing but what the Guru has blessed up on you! You enjoy the light !

    Now start searching for a Guru!
     
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  3. spookz Banned Banned

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    two breaks in the natural breath

    inhalation and exhalation?
     
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  5. Rajagopals Registered Senior Member

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    167
    inhalation and exhalation?

    No. You stop inhaling to start exhaling and you also stop exhaling to start inhaling. This appears to be the break and the same could be avoided (or rather could be nullified to very least possible time) using Hamsa Yoga method of meditation.
     
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  7. triatma Registered Member

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    11
    when the student is prepared, the teacher appears.
     
  8. Watcher Just another old creaker Registered Senior Member

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    373
    Some resources...

    Here is an excellent on-line, non-partisan general resource. Similar to the methods I have used, which have always worked well for me. I'd highly recommend this guide, one of the very best I have seen on the Net.

    http://natural-meditation.org/CIM/TextBook.htm



    Another very good book, non-partisan book on the topic is:

    "Journey of Awakening: A Meditator's Guidebook"
    Ram Dass (Richard Alpert)

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553285726/102-4470922-3784927?vi=glance
     
  9. Voltaire Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    141
    breathing is all you need. once when talking to one of my friends, we discussed how one should meditate. the Buddha did the lotus position and so on but the problem is not all beings are that flexible and when they try to meditate, it is more like torture. so my advice is that if you feel comfortable lying on the floor or bed or sitting down on a chair, do that. At first i was very fustrated when i could not concentrate when i tried copying the Buddha. then i figured i have always meditated but in ways which are not the norm. when i drift away from an ordinary conversation with a friend my mind starts to analyze on one specific subject like my motives, etc. hope this helps.
     
  10. Rajagopals Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    167
    Its better the Lotus way !

    If we could believe the fact that there is the an aura that surrounds the body, which Eastern Science calls Prana (Life Energy), the same spreads to about 12 inches away from our body like a protective cover. This Aura spreads out to 76 inches while we are lying down (without a pillow). Hence when you practice meditation in this position the same affects body and Prana in a bad way. Hence as per the Eastern philosophy and belief, it is not recommended to do meditation while lying down, specifically without a pillow.
     
  11. Voltaire Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    141
    i did not say the lotus way is bad but dude, not all people are able to meditate in this position because their flexibilty is limited. well if you use a pillow you will b prone to fall asleep so yeah that is not a very good idea. as with lying down, some "new age" people do that and i guess it works for them since they talk about it to me.
     
  12. oscar confusoid Registered Senior Member

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    315
    bump!

    before it gets deleted

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    oh, Blastoff, we're using one of your techniques in my Ashtanga Yoga class, very good suggestions, hope you dont mind

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  13. exsto_human Transitional Registered Senior Member

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    473
    I might aswell partake of the ancient discussion presented previously.

    Training to sit in the Lotus possition is in my opinion an indespensible method to meditate more effectively for the serious aspirant.
    The reason for this is the great benefit you receive in terms of sitting posture. Because the legs are 'locked' in such a possition that allows the back to be perfectly straight without using much passive muscle strength you don't ever have to stop to readjust your back possition, or wander wether it's straight enough or too straight. And you can maintain the possition for much longer without getting a back ache (as is a common problem for me).

    I used to always be bothered by my back when meditating before I trained into the full lotus possition.


    For anyone training for it I would suggest to start with half lotus for regular meditation, and spend a couple minutes after mediation trying to get into and hold the full lotus. Doing it gradualy is key. Pain is no good, discomfort is ok. Needless to say, don't get stuck!
     
  14. oscar confusoid Registered Senior Member

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    315
    do0d, I'm too stiff for full lotus, I can barely try half lotus...are there good yoga stretches (or postures for that matter) that can help me ease in to full lotus?

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  15. exsto_human Transitional Registered Senior Member

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    I don't do Yoga, so I don't know.

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    My best advice is to go with half lotus and work from there. That's what I did, I found it almost impossible to go into full lotus untill after a couple of months of half lotus training. And when I forced myself into full it was very painfull.
    Still today if I'm not relaxed enough and very tense it can be quite uncomfortable to do it.

    Remember, pain is an illusion! You are one with the pain, be the pain and it will be good to you.

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  16. Nikola Registered Member

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    3
    Hello, I am a new person around here; indeed this is my first post.

    First of all I would like to say that I am a man of science. I do not have any religious beliefs and am truly dedicated to science.

    However, after reading this thread, BLASTOFF inspired me to try and meditate.

    I want to thank him for his posts. Must of taken a heck of a long time to write those up but you certainly helped me.

    I just want to share with you what I experienced and I also want to hear what you people experience also.

    I started breathing slowly and deeply and just focussing on my breathing. After a while the thoughts that kept flying through and grabbing my attention stopped. It was incredibly peaceful. It was like being in the middle of a torrential downpour and then poof! The sun and butterflies come out.

    However, I cannot focus on any one part of my body. As you described BLASTOFF, to "move to your toes". Everytime I tried, it would be my imagination that would move and not me. Could you give some feedback on this please?
     
  17. cool slayer Registered Member

    Messages:
    3
    Hey guys you are talking about meditation. Do anyone of you know about levitation. All I know is that when you do it you are in such a state of mind that you can overcome forces of gravity. I,ve seen some pics and it seems really extraordinary. U imagine that people floating in the air! All I wish to know is how to do it.
     
  18. river-wind Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,671
    yoga stretches for getting into lotus.

    the three big ones, IMO.
    1)sit with your legs out in front of you, feet together. tak one foot and place it ontop of the oposit knee. Your legs will make the shape of an upside-down "4" now *GENTLY*, push down on the bent knee, pushing it towards the floor for a half second. THe let off the pressure, then push again. THere is a specifici techique to this "bouncing" All through school we are taught not to bouce when stretching, you might hurt yourself. This is very true! In this exersize, however, instead of pushing your knee as far to the floor as possible, and bouncing in and out of that position, you should push you knee down just o where you feel any sort of strech in you hips/leg. As soon as you feel *anything* let off. then re apply, then let off. If you push too hard, you may hurt yourself (this is why taking a yoga class is a good idea, the details in execution are important).
    This exersize will stretch and open your hip muscles and ligaments. work both sides for 30 seconds or so. DO NOT OVERDO THIS EXERSIZE!
    After you advance to the point where your kleg can comfortably sit across your other leg paralell to the ground, then try the following addition, done right after the 30 seconds of extra light bouncing - reach down and place your right foot on the inside of your left elbow. then put the right knee on the inside of the right elbow, grasp your opposing hands and sit up, huggin your shin to your chest. Now, similar to the bouncing earlier, rotate your upper body (along with your leg) from side to side, in a gentle mini-spinning action. again, don't over-do this one. Done right it works wonders, though. Lowerback, butt muscles.

    2)butterfly- sit in the same way as #1, but bring both feet together in front of you, with your knees pinted out, and your soles touching. Then bring your feet in as close to your crotch as possible. You want to grab your feet with your hands, and put your elbows on you knees, steadily (no bouncing) push them towards the floor. hold for 20 seconds, exhale, and push your legs down a little farther.
    This exersize stretches your leg & groin ligaments and muscles, and also is really great for pulled muscles in the lower back if you add bending at the waist to the stretch.

    3)leg-over. lie on your back, legs out straight. stretch yout arms out to the sides, so that your body is in the shape of a T. now lift one leg off the ground and bend the knee. bring the knee up as close to your chin as you can without straining (this may only be a few inches off the ground, and nowhere near your chin - the chin is the goal, you won't get there soon, probably never). Now rotate your hips so that knee dips toward the ground on the other side of your body...left knee, try and touch the ground on the right side of the body and vise-versa. Whichever way your knee goes, turn your head the other way. your body will look like a T with a 4 stuck on the bottom, and your head will be pointing away from the triangle prt of the 4. Try your best to keep you shoulders touching the floor, though your hips should turn as much as is comfortable.
    As you advance with this stretch, you can begin doing it with the crossing leg held out straight. This exersize stretches and strengthens your back and butt muscles.


    for all the above exersizes, try and breath slowly, and never "flop" out of the position when you are done. come into the position slowly, and come out of it slowly, breathing the whole time. For many yoga postures, the coming out of stage is where alot of the mucles work occurs. Also, all of the above should only be done to your own ability level. If something hurts, stop immediatly and re-asses where your abilities are. If something is uncomfortable, however, it may be a signal as to spicifically where to need to work more. Time and practice will help you figure out what is discomfort and what is pain.

    The best practice for full lotus is half lotus, though. work up to half lotus, and then pratice that for a few minutes daily, and full lotus will come in time.


    Nikola - you sound like you are a natural. it took me years of work to get to the place you simply fell into. I'm jelous

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    It took me additional years to get myself to "move to my toes", but maybe you'll pick it up faster than me. For me, moving my focus (similar to imagination) to my toes is enough to get the desired effect.
    I'd recommened doing some reading on bio-feedback. Scientific evidence and reproducable experiments verifying the effectivness and methods of meditation.

    Good luck!
     
  19. river-wind Valued Senior Member

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    2,671
    sadly, all the evidence I have seen for levitation has either been fraudulent, or involved a different definition of the word "levitation". Sorry I can't be of more help.
     
  20. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    For meditation, any comfortable position is good enough. For westerners, lotus position is pain and difficult - there is no reason forcing it. If one practices the lotus/half lotus sitting from childhood, then one should. Lying down has the disadvantage of falling asleep but OK too. The best one for westerners is in a comfortable recliner without or halfway the reclining position.
     
  21. Blue_UK Drifting Mind Valued Senior Member

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    1,449
    I don't really have a problem with the lotus. All I want is understanding and concentration!

    Which sadly I have lost and must regain!
     
  22. oscar confusoid Registered Senior Member

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    315
    that advice looks pretty useful river-wind...I'll try that!

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  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    In pursuit of knowledge,
    every day something is added.
    In the practice of the Tao,
    every day something is dropped.
     

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