OMA/OMG They are dead! Saddams sons are actually dead!

Discussion in 'World Events' started by nico, Jul 22, 2003.

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Should the US killed the Saddam sons?

  1. No, you want WMD don't you?

    12 vote(s)
    41.4%
  2. Yes, they deserved it

    17 vote(s)
    58.6%
  1. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    Ghassan Kanafani,

    Your statement was exaggerated in an appeal to emotion, live with it. True as I said without an argument it is not a “fallacy” per say but your just strawmaning my point. Which is that your emotional exaggerating your point, if you wish to make a statement that you want others to take more seriously your must remain neutral.
     
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  3. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

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    Who would cry over the death of these two men. Better these convicted arbitrary murderers and rapists are dead than two dozen American soliders trying to capture them.

    Did it ever occur to anyone that they wouldn't probably be taken alive anyways? They would have killed themselves rather than be taken by the U.S. and executed later on.

    You forfit your right to be captured when you start shooting at someone.
     
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  5. iloveyouhoeny Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    38
    Originally posted by Ghassan Kanafani

    point ? relevancy ?

    you said this of people rejoicing on the deaths of U/Qday:

    " most peoples rather have no idea of them other than sons of Saddam and judge them by that rather than that they have genuine arguments against them personally . "

    er duh...this isnt paint by numbers, but here goes again:
    no one knew anything about OBLs sons or called for their deaths even though they hated the father, so why would anyone 'judge' saddam's son IF THEY DIDNT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEM TOO?

    jeebus, id be here all day picking out the sematics of your posts, ghassy:
    "...rather than that they have genuine arguments against them personally . "
    ...because what ghassy? how many people do you think knew them personally??


    some % = vast majority
    so what = shows your stupidity as a peoples
    no, shows your lack of the elliptical in the english language.
    i don't have to point out to others that what i meant was it bears no importance, what the majority of people on the street think, because they are a constant & generally don't make an impact on anything, & especially not in minor affairs like killing 2 repulsive people we thoroughly identify as the enemy.
    is that clearer? probably not, oh well...



    Difference is between truth with knowledge truth without knowledge .
    only in your brain, ghassbag, do you make relevant points, are logical, & the master of the universal truth.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2003
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  7. iloveyouhoeny Registered Senior Member

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    38
    didnt it take 4 hours? oh, yeah. 4 hours to "murder" "unarmed" men in that house, ...yeah right.....& who really believes they wouldnt have had at the very least guns on them? yeah right, that fits in with their way of life, & the situation of peril they were in. sheesh.

    & btw, presenting corpses wouldnt matter to these idiot arabists & fundamentalists, etc, with their conspiracy theories...please.
     
  8. blankc Your superior Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    300
    This just goes to show how america is getting more primitive by the day. They have reverted to pre-roman revenge killings, and burried the finally deceased carcas of modern justice.
     
  9. grazzhoppa yawwn Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,277
    Hahaha! They don't have them! Isn't that funny?

    Good question, EI. Because I remember before the war, the media and government were saying they didn't have DNA samples of Saddam or his highups, so even if they were able to recover a body, they would have no idea if it was the real guy. But I'm sure the US has it's ways of pulling it off the deaths of the most wanted men................by the way, where's Osama and his threat to US security now? Oh, the US never caputured him and never killed him and security seems to be fine......and where are those color coded warning levels now?..........and in a few weeks, everyone will be asking, where are those DNA samples now?

    Of course, there will be another news story to detract from all the bad press about what the Whitehouse is doing and that question will be put aside.
     
  10. Ghassan Kanafani Mujahid Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,555
    WellCookedFetus

    Your statement was exaggerated in an appeal to emotion, live with it. True as I said without an argument it is not a “fallacy” per say but your just strawmaning my point.

    Your point was that it was logical fallacy wich it wasnt . As I said exageration of my statement in appeal for emotion can be debated , it does matter that there are 2 sides of the story , the intention and the reception . Can you live with that ?

    Which is that your emotional exaggerating your point, if you wish to make a statement that you want others to take more seriously your must remain neutral.

    Why should I maintain neutral ? I offer a perspective , surely Im not in political games here so I dont see it other than a rehtorical tool what you advise , dealing with the art of persuasion . I care little for that in this point , the point made was they should have died by Iraqi hands and not Amerikan .

    hoeny : seek help .

    grazzhoppa :

    They don't have them! Isn't that funny?


    So whats up with this claim of dental evidence ? They say now that they're identified , so they're lying ?

    It would really make them look like an ass if they turn up again . Also it really doesnt help the situation there to have these boys dead , would that be worth less than their Public appearance in USA ?
     
  11. GuitarToadster Packin' six-string heat! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    145
    Hey man, for your info, I AM a hippy... long hair and all.

    I was speaking in general terms, if you noticed. I said I find it sad that people are happy about ANYONE'S death. Wasn't focused specifically on just Saddam's two son's.

    It is actually what is wrong with our society as a whole... on one hand we run around murdering people for any old reason (their beliefs, the way they dress, their money, etc) but on the other we devote so much time and effort into trying to preserve people's lives and allow them to artificially live many years past their "normal life span."

    Doesn't it seem... a bit odd?

    Here people will applaud and hurray at an Iraqi's death (again I am speaking in general terms, not about Saddam or his family) and yet if an Iraqi were to kill an American it would be horrible. The opposite is possibly true over there (in Iraq).

    I just personally find it the sickness of society to have such a deep love for the morbid. We sit glued to the TV to watch Cops beat the crap out of blacks or hispanics, gotta catch some glimpse of our "war heroes" blasting rounds at Iraqi's... maybe we'll see some blood! Also, just like the bad accident on the highway, everyone has to slow down and get a good look at the mangled car and bodies....

    I say, if you are so fascinated by it, why don't you run yourself through a meat grinder and save the rest of us some time....:m:
     
  12. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    'Fetus:
    He's not going to be able to handle much more of this.

    Bets on how much longer Ghassan Khandaffi can stand 'Fetus' use of logic/debate terms.
     
  13. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    Ghassan Kanafani,

    Actually you use the appeal to emotion fallacy all through out that post on parts with a definitive premises and conclusion, thus making it a fallacy. So I stand by my original observation.

    No your argument do not need to be neutral at all (how could they) but you do not need to add in emotionally negative and many times incorrect words like “Zionist” and “Amerikans” Last time I look the USofA armed forces are not Israeli Jewish fundamentalist and America is spell with a “C” in it either showing that you can’t spell or you are misspelling the name in a sign of disrespect. Try to make all wording in a statements neutral and factual, people won’t look at the first sentence and ignore the rest or attack you blatantly because they now think you just another Muslim Troller.

    Xev,

    When is blood curdles I will leave him be.
     
  14. filibuster I only call names in bed Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    77
    I'm glad we are all so comfortable talking about death this way.

    Mmmmm.....death........(gurgling slobber)
     
  15. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    4,467
    They should be glad Bush is president and not me cause I am NOT a nice person at heart. (though I keep myself under control most of the time) I would personally want to throw those two in a machine that slowly vivisects them but also keeps them alive for 99 years.

    Like I said: I'm NOT a nice person.
     
  16. Ghassan Kanafani Mujahid Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,555
    Xev : seek help

    Fetus :

    Actually you use the appeal to emotion fallacy all through out that post on parts with a definitive premises and conclusion, thus making it a fallacy. So I stand by my original observation.

    merely stating that you consider them being there and valid by the relation premis/conclusion doesnt make them be there .

    1)please point them out , and distinguish premis from conclusion .
    2)please explain the emotional appeal intention .

    No your argument do not need to be neutral at all (how could they) but you do not need to add in emotionally negative and many times incorrect words like “Zionist” and “Amerikans”Last time I look the USofA armed forces are not Israeli Jewish fundamentalist and America is spell with a “C” in it either showing that you can’t spell or you are misspelling the name in a sign of disrespect.

    1)Zionists : pro-Israeli forces . not Jewish-Israeli fundamentalists .

    2)Amerikan : thats how I distinguish between the country and continent , sometimes I try to watch for it , but i do admit I couldnt really care based on :
    * irellevance of spelling to understand what we talk about .
    * arrogant hijacking of 2 continents into one nation wich proper name is USA .

    people wonÂ’t look at the first sentence and ignore the rest or attack you blatantly because they now think you just another Muslim Troller.

    Who are these peoples you talk of ? There are view peoples that I have been/am in certain conflict with that I would care to see different other than them to simply be shut .

    Surely the future might prove different , but history surely has not . Im not trying to sell a story , thus Im not subject to rthetorical rules on debating like political correctness .

    Logics is only whats necesarry , and you have untill sofar faild to show me any logical fallacy .

    Good luck .

    GuitarRoadster

    I said I find it sad that people are happy about ANYONE'S death

    There I can agree with you . That is rather sad and most of all disturbed .

    Doesn't it seem... a bit odd?

    It is , its rather hypocrtical , but thats how the world turns .

    Here people will applaud and hurray at an Iraqi's death (again I am speaking in general terms, not about Saddam or his family)

    I was not aware of that , I certainly havent really seen it on these boards (well for some exceptions) . Thats quite sick why ? What reason do they have to be glad an Iraqi died ?

    The opposite is possibly true over there (in Iraq).

    The thing is that we could give you quite some reasons why their deaths should be applauded : they should leave .

    I just personally find it the sickness of society to have such a deep love for the morbid. We sit glued to the TV to watch Cops beat the crap out of blacks or hispanics, gotta catch some glimpse of our "war heroes" blasting rounds at Iraqi's... maybe we'll see some blood! Also, just like the bad accident on the highway, everyone has to slow down and get a good look at the mangled car and bodies....

    Yes i can understand , its indeed disturbing peoples find some sort of fulfilling situation is seeing somebody ANYBODY die or being hurt .

    Well a least its not rational or conscious but reactionary and emotional ....... or is that a bad thing ?
     
  17. Deepuz Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    177
    Ghassan Kanafani


    You do your namesake a disservice with your idiocy.
     
  18. Zero Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,355
    Right, right, he tells Xev to seek help.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    If you tried to give her "help", she'd rip off your dick and dance around whipping you with it. Hm, that is a sort of a turn on.

    Gassy, so let's hear your opinion on the death of Saddam's sons. Were you happy when they died or not? Why?
     
  19. Psycho-Cannon Home grown and Psycho Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    744
    4.
    200 Marines with heavy calibre machine guns, and rocket launchers.
    Backed up by HumVee mounted TOW Missiles and Attack hellicopters

    Versus

    Sadams 2 sons one of whom is wheelchair bound
    His 14 year old son and one body guard with an AK.
    Apparanrtly Uday managed to get his hands on some kind of gun as well before it was all over but still.

    Makes you wonder 200 hundred people and all that armour couldnt take 4 people only 2 of whom could fight alive?
    Did you see the news footage of the villa?
    The entire front face of the building had been blow off the vila and the room behind it walls celings and floor was covered in bullet holes and blast marks.
    Litteraly you couldnt find an unmarked spot on that entire wall.
    The amount of fire power used against these 4 was unreal.
    There would of been no chance for any kind of surrender or survival.

    Aparrantly to further insult your intellegence they claim they werent told they were attacking Sadams Sons until after the attack had finished.
    Why would they be told to launch an attack to kill or capture (Aparantly the option to capture came in the form of a single call to surrender by Loud hailer 2 minutes before they opened fire with the rocket launchers) the occupants of the villa when they represented such major and important intellegence and strategic targets?

    As for the "They fought back hard for 4-6 hours" having seen the amount of fire power unleashed by the damage done to the house and the numbers versus only 2 or (if you want to stretch it 4) people fighting back, i find it hard to belive they really Fought back and if they did how would you tell over the noise of 200 marines, Attack hellicopters Humvees and TOW missiles peppering the entire building that there were a few AK's popping back a few rounds in your general direction without hitting anything?
    I find it hard to belive that they were even anywhere near to the front of the building to be able to fight back or they would of been slaughtered in 4 seconds as the walls were destroyed under the power of the assault and even the inner walls were peppered all the way through.

    What happened to the old American ideology back from WWII and the trail of the NAZI Leaders where the US were the most adamant that they MUST be captured alive to be tried and executed in front of a court of law rather than be "Summarily executed" or assasinated so as to set precedence and to allow the world to see that even in the face of attrocity they act fairly and to make sure that everything is set down in stone every action we take and everyone we judge the process and cause and reasoning is set down and recorded so that no one in the future will doubt or judge you wrongly and to show you are right?
     
  20. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,523
    Ghassan Kanafani.

    Conclusion: "I don't think so"
    Premise: "if they would want to leave Iraq they (themselves) don’t have to go fight Zionists for 4-6 hrs"

    The USofA military are not Zionist

    How do you know the USofA military is a pro-Israel force do they support Israel take over of Palestine?

    USofA would be a far better interpretation of America then Amerikan, people would understand what your talking about.
     
  21. Psycho-Cannon Home grown and Psycho Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    744
    Sorry my mistake the injured 4 soldiers aparently.
    And they also say the last one alive was the 14 yr old but he insisted in shooting back from the top of some stairs near the top of the villa so they shot him too.....
     
  22. nico Banned Banned

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    3,122
  23. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Isn't it kind of weird how CNN had all this complaining about showing dead USofA soldiers while now their showing Uday and Qusay dead bodies for seemingly hours at end... especially at breakfast :bugeye: what wrath will this bring, and if not is the USofA’s public hypocritical? I think the Daily Show is now my #1 source of news: I am still laughing about Uday’s projected eulogy: “Seldomly raped the disabled.”
     

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