Please Heed My Advice And Save Yourselves.

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by Squashbuckler, Aug 13, 2003.

  1. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,598
    I am very attached to me.
    ME ME ME.
    I like the sound of that.
    You guys are attached to this non-attachement thing eh?
    This is the last thing you have to let go of.
    Then you will be enlightened and can no longer hurt a fly.
    Let us know when you are more one than anyone.
    I can see both sides of the argument.
    Lucky me.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
    WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO!
    Peace Out
     
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  3. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    Thanks Canute and ripleofdeath. moe, whats your last post suppose trying to say?
     
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  5. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

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    Just having fun Vital.

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    It means WOOOOHOOOO!

    And that you are attached to the idea of attachement.
    You have to let that go to become enlightened.
    WOOOOHOOO!
     
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  7. Canute Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not sure that there are two sides to the argument. There are two aspects of existence, the objective and the subjective, that need a single explanation. The two sides of the argument need to be synthesised, neither can be correct on their own.
     
  8. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,598
    Not putting on a show,
    he shines.
    not justifying himself,
    he is distinguished;
    not boasting,
    he is acknowledged.

    He does not quarrel,
    so no one quarrels with him.
    WOOOOHOOO!
     
  9. VitalOne Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,716
    Ok. I don't want to become enlightened yet. Not ready.Its not time....

    BTW: You do know that you sound insane? Right?
     
  10. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,598
  11. Squashbuckler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    194
    If you remove the fear of death, you no longer appreciate life.
    You are saying that its "wrong" to be attached to life? I would argue that not being attached to your life and your happiness is the worst evil that their could possibly be.
    Being attached to things is what causes the happiness is the first place. If one were "attached" to nothing at all, what would he value? A value is what one seeks to obtain and keep.
    In " not wanting things" that makes you free?
    THAT is the reason why I strongly feel buddhism is a terrible system.
    It makes you not "want things" . If you dont want things for you, then what makes you think that you will do things for you?
    Where is the VALUE OF YOURSELF.
    "Material things dont control you"
    Do they "control you"
    I dont feel that they control me at all.
    I studied buddhism for almost 2 years. Ive read many books on the subject. If everyone wants to say that " i have a muddled concept of buddhism", then i would suggest that maybe it is they who are confused.

    Inner peace does not come from removing the mind and its desires. What thats called is " nothing". You are nothing. You are a dog without an ID.
     
  12. Squashbuckler Registered Senior Member

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    194
    that sounds like lao tzu garbage.
    hahha, Reading that makes me laugh.
    Making something from nothing!
     
  13. Squashbuckler Registered Senior Member

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    194
    Yes. Religion is nothing more than philosophy. All religions in my opinion are trash.
     
  14. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

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    You tell'em Squashy baby!

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  15. Squashbuckler Registered Senior Member

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    194
    So you say meditation is useful because it removes the clutter of thought so that you can be in the "now" . But what is the point of being in the "NOW" if you dont have any desires anyways?
    What makes you want to "DO" anything. The whole point it to eliminate desires and achieve "nirvana"
    The fraud that perpetrates is hilarious!

    Buddhists say : " eliminate all your goals and desires to achieve nirvana and true freedom "

    ?!?!!!
    That freedom is a goal, and a desire!
    Thier desire is nirvana, but they claim that they want to eliminate desires?
    The elimination of desires will result in a meaningless life without any sense of value, whether personal or material.
     
  16. Squashbuckler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    194
    Really? Well there is nothing inside yourself other than Instinctive desires, and other partial philosophies that have shaped your superego culturally.
     
  17. Squashbuckler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    194

    Ive decided to no longer talk to you.

    If reality is subjective, and nothing can be known, why are we wasting our time talking about things that cannot be known?
    Why bother with science? why bother with anything?


    I also find it funny that you support buddhism and the elimination of self-cherishing.

    Buddhism is about the elimination of self cherishing. If everyone knows, understands, and accepts what that implies, and yet still continues to practice buddhism- They deserve it.
     
  18. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    9,879
    To VitalOne who wrote: when one tries to explain to the other it seems to make logical sense because the person (having the same senses) can relate to it. Some objectivists, have asked if I do this, doesn't this happen? To us yes, but to others no. That is why reality is subjective. If mankind could only see, then what we percieve as reality would not be the same as if we had all 5 senses. Don't you understand? Mankind has created most ideas based on their senses. If we had 6 senses, these ideas would be different, just as if we had 2 or 4 or 8 senses and so on. This is why reality is subjective. Ideas were initially opinions, then proven by showing other people. Those people using the same senses as the other would be able to reason it. Facts are just what mankind agreed upon.

    I understand what you mean, but isn't there definite reality beyond the interpretations mankind has agreed upon? Doesn't Buddhism address a reality outside of our senses? And if so isn't it concrete or is everything just an illusion (I mean within eastern thought)?

    Squashbuckler you wrote:So you say meditation is useful because it removes the clutter of thought so that you can be in the "now" . But what is the point of being in the "NOW" if you dont have any desires anyways?
    What makes you want to "DO" anything. The whole point it to eliminate desires and achieve "nirvana"

    Meditation is useful outside of any religious context. You can have desires and still meditate and find it a helpful tool for ones self-improvement. Just because someone chooses to focus on what they are doing (being present, in the Now) as opposed to allowing the mind to anxiously get lost and ramble about whether they will get to the bank on time, what happened yesterday or will happen tomorrow, when one is simply walking to the bus station does not mean they are concerned with Nirvana. Meditation improves awarness. I can become more aware of my desires, and perhaps a deeper awarness of my desires helps me achieve them, or perhaps put them in perspective. Just because someone meditates does not mean they don't want to excel in their career, buy a Jaguar or drop by the boutique for some mindless shopping

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    You also wrote: Well there is nothing inside yourself other than Instinctive desires, and other partial philosophies that have shaped your superego culturally.

    I agree with this quote, don't you think that meditation can help one become aware of all the above? Attention to thougt and feeling enables us to become more conscious instead of simply reacting to every thought and feeling that overwhelms the mind and body.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2003
  19. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,598
    Meditation is simply a practice of focusing ones mind.
    On what is an entirely different story.
    The end.
    "Simply Margarette, I don't give a damn!"
    Do a little dance,.....make a little love......,get down tonight!
    WOOOOHOOO!:bugeye:
     
  20. Canute Registered Senior Member

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    Squashbuckler - I won't keep arguing because I appreciate that you're just expressing your opinion. However all this stuff you are writing is trivial. It doesn't matter what meditation is 'for', or whether or not you understand the meaning of Buddhist claims about reality. What matters is whether the Buddhist explanation of reality is true or not. On that you have not yet put forward an argument.

    Nobody is forced to practice Buddhist, if you don't like it then go and practice scientism or Christianity or nihilism or objectism or something. But don't bore everybody here by dismissing it as nonsense without some evidence. Go do it on 'free thoughts' or 'religion' or somewhere where people generally just proclaim their opinions to each other.

    If you studied Buddhism for two years, as you say, it is hard to imagine how you can still be so ignorant about what it asserts.
     
  21. linus Registered Senior Member

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    90
    Re: =)

    it's quite a bold statement to say that the buddha made no difference on society and life. since over one fifth of the world is a follower of his and eblieves in his ideas, then regaurdless of whether you agree, it would be unrational to say that he did not. of course that can be said of anyone who talked of understanding. christ, lao tzu.

    i am not commenting on their correctness, but they have made a difference and to suggest that they haven't is just a silly notion that even ayn rand owuld have laughed at.

    notwithstanding, the buddha was very much his own man sdoing what he needed to do despite all the world chiding him and trying to undo him. you may not like buddhists, but the buddha was more of an objectivist than howard roark could ever be. the distinction is that that is not the only thing he was.
     
  22. exsto_human Transitional Registered Senior Member

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    473
    Ok Sqaush, here's the deal.

    As an objectivist you have the explicit duty to let everyone else live their lives trying to attain happines in their own way.

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    So why not instead of sitting by a computer and fruitlessly argue with people who aren't going to listen anyway, do something productive with your life like a good objectivist would. There are much better things to do than converting Buddhists, an obvious minority, who when truely dedicated to their practice are usualy firm as rock and impossible to budge.
    While I can see somethings from your point of view (as an individual objectivist) it would be good for you if desire denying philosophies of which Buddhism is very much at the extreme end of the spectrum, where eliminated Because: People who think in these ways are not very good 'trading partners', when the idea of trading partners is at the very core of the objectivist view on social interaction and interdependence. As they essentialy want nothing from you and give nothing to you. You however want them to be productive members of society who will make for you TV sets and Cars (objects of ultimate happiness) and who will also work for you, take away your garbage etc... But they do not consent.
    However, realisticaly you probably will not succeed in convincing anyone to change anything.

    I appologise for the slightly satiric implications you may draw from what I have said. I do not consent to the views of Ayn Rand myself and am biased as towards their nature. But I am trying to show you using perhaps a similar loigic an objectivist might use that we as non-objectivists have the right to believe whatever the hell we want no matter how deluded. If it makes us happy is it not worth pursuing?
    You can only speak for your self when you say that Buddhsim does not make you happy.
    So why not pursue your own happiness instead of trying to make us give up ours?
     
  23. linus Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    90
    Re: HERE YOU ALL GO:

    actually, not basing you decision on outcome, which is what nonattachment is about, doing what you need or want to do wihtout regaurd for outcome, is very much what ayn rand taught. maybe you've been reading somone else's books.
    this has to do with non attachment, it's not desire for anything in general, it's desire for outcome. but that would only be clear if you had done some reasearch.
    it teaches to not hold yourself above others, as no progress can be made by anyone who holds themselves above another. in all of time, it has never happened. it is basically a comment on that fact. it is not about not liking yourself, just about not thinking your better than others.
    has it occured to you that you say everything twice?
    see point above for answer to this.

    the concept here, is cause and effect, by helping someone else, it causes an effect that will get back to you in some way and most likely when you least expect it. this phenomenon can be observed in everyday life. it's not a matter of oppinion really, just a matter of paying attention.

    i can certainly understand that viewpoint and, not agreeing or disagreeing, i am curious what the standards are. that is, what must one do to deserve to be loved. and who makes the final decision?
    what exactly does this mean? it is words in a row, that much is evident, but it seems to accomplish a miraculous feet of using seven words to say nothing at all. maybe you mean that you think buddhism is against contentment? i'm not sure, no one who had studied buddhism would believe that. i don't know what you mean here. please clarify it.
    it's not about elininating yourself, it's a biproduct, it's about realizing that you are a part of this world, and that your contributiion to the world is sacred.


    why do those that mistreat you need to be gotten at all? i'm not saying they do or dont but have you really asked yourself this question?

    could you show me the documentation on that? which studies show these points or are you just making a generalization?







    where in buddhist doctrine is this listed? i see in buddhist doctrine about seeking understanding within yourself. but not about stagnation, as it was contrary to everything the buddha stood for: the buddhas strongest "enemies" if you could call it that, being lazy people who have no desire to better themselves or the world.

    how did you reach this conclusion? i have seen nothing that links buddhism to communism either dogmatically or socialogically. as a matter of fact, in terms of people hurt by communism, they are just about number one.




    this is a presuppostition. you cannot judge what has or has not helped someone else. i am not saying it does or deosn't only that you have not given any evidence to suggest even by your cause and effect standrads that it helps no one. in a purely medical sense, it reduces stress levels, releases endorphins which lightens the blood flow and helps circluation as well as depletion of blood clots and has a postiive effect on all cardio-respitory ailments, which is the number one killer of human beings. but that aside, i would like to believe that you have a bisis for your assessment and not just a general presupostion with no backing, so please explain the train of thought that led you to this.

    now you say cause and effect is real, yet reject karma whihc is the very idea of cause and effect.

    squash, i'm not saying i disagree or agree with ayn rand, but i'd like to hear your views, or at least have you talk about how you reach your conclusions. it is the process of learning is seeing the process another goes through and then taking it and making it your own, altering it to your needs and lifestyle. so what i'm asking is, please make a point and support it, rather than support it with more presuppositions.







    it's not self immolation, it's self respect in corrolation with respect for the world. it's understanding that you are not the only person in the world and not the most important, rather, just another and how you choose to spend you life has effect and you have to deal with those consequences.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2003

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