Against Antichrist Doctrine

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Lawdog, Jun 16, 2001.

  1. Lawdog Digging up old bones Registered Senior Member

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    8) AGAINST THE "HARM NONE DO WHAT YE WILL" (antichrist teaching)OBJECTION: Some people are not fit to be parents.
    The story of Lazarus (from LUKE 16)
    HEAVEN AND EARTH SHALL MORE EASILY PASS AWAY, THAN ONE
    TITTLE OF THE LAW...

    Jesus said:
    There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine
    linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

    And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his
    gate, full of sores,

    And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's
    table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to
    pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into
    Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

    And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham
    afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    And he cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send
    Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my
    tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

    But Abraham said, "Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst
    thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is
    comforted, and thou art tormented.
    And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so
    that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they
    pass to us, that would come from thence."

    Then he said, "I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send
    him to my father's house:For I have five brethren; that he may testify
    unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment."

    Abraham saith unto him, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them
    hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto
    them from the dead, they will repent."

    And he said unto him, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
    neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

    Lets consider the many doctrines and meanings of this scripture
    passage.

    1)it proves the need for charity (love of neighbor) rather than just
    "tolerance".

    2)it shows that without the growth of charity in our lives, it is
    impossible to enter Heaven.

    3) it reminds us of the existance of angels who help the poor and
    meek,and that God cares for those who the world forgets.

    4)it proves that Christ taught that the ancient patriarchs, Jews like
    Abraham and others, could be with God in bliss.

    5) it teaches that after Death one's choice for or against God cannot be
    changed.

    6) it teaches that contentment in this life is risky, especially when
    many are suffering.

    7) it warns the reality of the Last Judgement.

    8) it teaches that the Old Testament(Moses and the prophets) is just
    as important for Truth as the New Testament. Those who ignore the
    Old Testament will be at pains to believe the Resurrection.

    9) it would be better to be the dog licking his sores than be the rich
    man.

    9) DOMINION OF GOD
    1) Essential dominion. It was not necessary that God should draw me
    from nothing. But since God has created me, it is necessary that I
    should be His.

    2)Supreme dominion. I belong to God before everything, and above
    everything. Properly speaking, I belong to God alone, and men have no
    other rights over me except such as God has given them. Their rights,
    then, are subordinate to the rights of God; and their authority must
    always be subjected to the authority of God.

    3) Absolute dominion. God can dispose of me according to his pleasure;
    He can give or take from me fortune, health, honor, life; my duty is to
    recieve every thing from His hand with submission and without
    complaint.

    4)Universal dominion. everything in me is from God; therefore all in me
    belongs to God. The dominion of the Lord extends to all stages of my
    life, to all the situations I may be placed, to all the faculties of my
    soul, all the senses of my body, to every hour and moment of my
    existance.

    5) Eternal dominion. The dominion of God is immortal, like myself; it
    begins with time, and continues through eternity; death, which deprives
    men of all their rights, is unable to do anything against the rights of
    God.

    6) Irresistible dominion. We may escape the dominion of men; but how
    escape the dominion of God? Willing or unwilling, we must submit to it;
    we must live under the empire of His Love, or under the that of His
    justice; either glorify His power by free obedience, or glorify it by
    inevitable punishment.
    "O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed
    say to him that formed it, why hast thou made me thus? (Rom. xi 20)
     
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  3. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    So apart from the condescending irrational biblical gibberish you have quoted did you have any sort of intelligent comment to make?
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    It's just more empty propaganda

    Unfortunately, Lawdog has failed to describe the source of the objection provided. His ambition to attack the Rede as inherently antichristian has caused him to make an irresponsible claim. After all, he apparently thinks everyone should reproduce. I should have nine daughters so I can keep them in a harem for me ... that sort of thing. Without any source for the objection, we have no interpretation of the objection, and nothing by which to measure his response. The result of that is that people who want to keep their daughters as a harem are apparently fit parentage.

    However, Lawdog was kind enough as to riddle his rantings with assertions that prove occasionally hilarious, considering the philosophies and active manifestations of philosophies we see associated with the christ/antichrist obsession:
    In the modern day, religions of the Bible have largely failed on both counts. In American society, we seek tolerance only because there is no forced obligation to be kind to your neighbor. In theory, this allows people do discover the legitimate reasons that human compassion and human kindness, instead of dwell on how to make an obligation to others more advantageous to myself, which concept results in untamed greed allegedly justified by God's authority. However, being that our cultural expression has largely been restricted to portions of the population where Bible-religion is to be found, we see the primary social trend toward profit by kindness, or, take my advantage by telling you I'm being kind; stealing from you while telling you I'm making you richer; beating you while telling you I'm healing you; hurting you while I say I love you. This is what happens when one sacrifices the intellect and chooses to learn nothing genuine.
    As I noted above: kindness by obligation. How does one enter Heaven by seeking it? If one selects one's own actions to maximize one's chances of getting into Heaven, one is plotting to deceive God with charity that is not genuine. This is called greed, and has made people so thirsty for Heaven over the centuries that they will violate the commandments while telling someone it's for their own good: Hey, Lawdog, whatever happened to Thou shalt not kill? Oh, wait ... wait. Sorry, I forgot that you approve of murder to get into Heaven.
    The only reason angels should intervene is because there's not enough charity, and therefore none to become angels. Looks like you missed again, Lawdog. Even in angelic form, Mother Teresa can't do it all. Heck, even your God can't do it all; else it would be taken care of.
    I think everybody with an operating cognitive cell can see what's wrong with that. Such ideas as these are limited specifically to persons like yourself, Lawdog when dwelling on how best to achieve your own salvation. You can't get there like that, and you know it.
    Hopefully, Lawdog, you have plenty of time to get that straightened out. Of course, such a belief would explain the infantile nature of arguments made by so many Christian adults: knowing that one cannot change their opinion of God after they die, one chooses to set that opinion as early as possible, against any accidental (yeah, right, if it's by God's will) death. In this case, one can no longer afford to revise one's opinion of God during life, lest they pass from Earth (by God's will) before resolving one or two critical issues, thus effecting their condemnation. But we all know that as described in the Bible, Lawdog, your form of obsession with salvation won't get you there.
    Contentment is also one of the things which allows certain forms of innovations. Necessity, it is said, is the Mother of Invention. The only problem with building on the fly is that the result addresses only the immediately-relevant issues, and does not necessarily have any other application. This creates a limiting of ideas that, when spanning generations, exscinds much from the recognized Universe and creates predictable templates for human responsive behavior. To the other, there is a form of innovation that comes from contentment. By nature, contentment is a transitory spirit. That contentment is restless, and seeks validation. We find ways of giving to people things they need, instead of thinks we have to give, so that both the giver and the receiver are benefitted. If what I give is relevant to my immediate concerns creating necessity, then what I give may not be relevant to the one who receives. From the restless contentment, I may better see what is relevant to another's necessity, and thus provide such relevant something in an act of will and not of obligation.

    Let me address here a possible objection to the above: If you think that total contentment involves never worrying about others again, it's your own psyche that thinks that. No living moment is ever truly content until the achievement of Utopia, Kingdom of God, Harmonic Oneness, or a number of other expressions of human perfection toward which we all, in our own way, aspire. If one would accuse that the content have no reason to give, such a notion reflects only the conscience of the accuser, who fears such behavior in their own self. But such selfishness comes from an obsession toward the necessary.
    Hey, if you want to believe that, go ahead, Lawdog. After all, what could possibly be more important than what God thinks of you?

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    That's a nice comfortable assumption of faith, isn't it? In reality, it must be that way else Christians could not usurp the Judaic covenant. It's a political convention to legitimize early Christianity in the eyes of its Judaic neighbors the Christians so readily slandered in their appeals to the Roman government: with nothing else to stand on, the Christians said, "Hey, at least we're not Jews."
    Sure. Whatever you say. When I'm the rich man I can afford to buy vaccinations, inoculations, and whatever else is needed to keep a community healthy. It's part of my responsibility to the human race. I can even afford to help people keep their kitties and puppies healthy, so that there needs be no licking of anyone's sores whatsoever. Sure, it's a lofty vision, but it beats waking up in the morning, figuring out who's throat I can cut to advance my chances for salvation.

    Lawdog, of your Dominion tantrum, let me just say that at least we know what your religion finds important. Can you imagine humankind trying to advance under such conditions? With such a negative outlook on the natural universe, death and destruction is the only thing that can result. This is why many people find Christianity dangerous. In order to attract converts, you have to convince them that they're horrible people. Lesser-educated people are more prone to accept this, given the connection 'twixt education and quality of life. Thus we see Christianity appealing politically to the lowest educational strata: in the 1980s we complained about schools focusing on the Least Common Denominator of student intelligence; that is, catering to the lowest scores. Here we see Christianity creating conditions whereby that is the group of persons most likely to convert. And this, perhaps, is why such irresponsible, ill-constructed, violence-encouraging theology exists today and affects so many people.

    And Lawdog ... you're a banner-boy for bad religion. Thank you; I needed the exercise today. But you're making it so basic and easy that I still think you're a provocateur.

    --Tiassa

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  7. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    tiassa, yes you're in good form today. Since my recent move into management I've found my time has been severely curtailed which has limited my ability to contribute more fully to the board. Not that I have ever been able to achieve the depth and penetration exibited by your texts. Keep going, I enjoy being inspired.

    Cris
     
  8. Lawdog Digging up old bones Registered Senior Member

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    happiness

    The Truth of Christ is like the Sea, permanant and unyeilding to Man's desires. No matter what machinations and devices you use to rid the Sea of its water, nothing will suffice to empty the Sea. Surely, God's Truth is more permanant than the Sea, which shall pass away, but "tho Heavan and Earth pass away, my words shall never pass away" (Christ)

    Holy Mother Church and her Traditions is the work of God and his Saints, not that of men, regardless of what may seem to those outsiders of no understanding. Our Faith is universal and for all people, your final happiness resides in her bosom alone.

    This causes you frustration, being unable to undo what cannot be undone. Thus it is best to yeild your spirit, for "every knee in Heaven and Earth shall bend and proclaim the Lord is God".

    Do this by seeking the grace of conversion from God in prayer, beseeching Mary our help, the very Mother of God, for this is a singular precious grace worth more than all the universe.
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus: The Anti-Drug

    This reminds me of a silly lesson my mother used to stress, about the bad kids who smoked or drank their parents' whiskey. They wanted other people to do it with them (e.g. us, the good kids) in order to make themselves feel better about breaking the rules and hurting themselves.

    Judgementalism of that aside, I wonder if the Christian need to convince others to sacrifice their intellect is a last gasp of a Christian conscience begging for either help or companionship. It must be terrible to be alone with only delusions of salvation to keep you company.

    --Tiassa

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  10. Emerald Registered Senior Member

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    Lawdog,

    If the Rede is an antichrist teaching, then the opposite of the Rede would be Christian teaching, yes? In honor of <b>Father's</b> Day, allow me to include a few of my favorite examples of Christian teachings here:


    <font color="red">Matthew 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my <b>father</b>.

    Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.


    Matthew 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or <b>father</b>, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.


    Matthew 23:9 And call no man your <b>father</b> upon the earth: for one is your <b>Father</b>, which is in heaven.


    Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his <b>father</b>, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.</font>

    As inspiring as Christians apparently find these teachings to be, forgive me if I choose to continue honoring the Rede. Oh, and by the way, happy <b>Father's</b> Day, Lawdog.

    Emerald
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Y'know, Emerald

    The curious thing is that I have severe reservations about my own family; my father taught me bad principles encouraging me to hurt people in a quest of personal wealth and security (to the other, my mother was complicit in her general acceptance of such principles, though her nature tended to blindly contradict him with... well, she wasn't conscious enough of the process for me to say it was or willful.)

    To the other, holidays are the end of my principles; every commercial boycott I've ever declared (China

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    , Disney, Starbucks--though not the current boycott, Nike, ad nauseam) with the giving of gifts. They don't respect my principles, want to talk about cutthroat ways of living, and wonder constantly why I'm so unhappy around them.

    I would like to think that if anything compels me to cut these people out of my life, it will be the invitation of their personal intolerances. Why I should choose to leave them behind for such a stupid and ludicrous and hateful God as one who would destroy a family in search of individual fidelity, I cannot fathom.

    As much as my family annoys me by asking me to live according to unkind principles, I would not leave them behind simply because God doesn't feel secure in his masculinity.

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    How can we get along without a sense of family? Yet God would steal that fundamental human power from us? Of course, what with that kingdom obsession and all, I'm not entirely sure God wants humanity to survive on this planet. And therein lies a loving message for Fathers' Day: To love or hate your father means your redemption beyond this life.

    My editorial comment is that this is what we should expect of redemptive religions.

    But thank you for the notes on fatherhood and family.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  12. Emerald Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Y'know, Emerald

    Tiassa,

    I'm sorry to hear about your relationship with your family - I've had similar problems with mine. My father used to loudly and adamantly advise me to hit people over the head with a baseball bat if they hurt me or upset me in any way (as if I could simply pull one out of my back pocket when the occasion required it

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    ). He would actually become furious with me upon learning that I had not followed this prescribed course of action. I quickly learned not to tell my father anything regarding my personal disputes. However, I am as baffled as you are by a religion that actively promotes bad will between family members as Christianity does.

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    Ah, perhaps this insecurity explains the following verse:

    <font color="red">Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.</font>

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    But then I guess that would render the whole fatherhood problem a non-issue, huh?

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    Emerald
     
  13. Emerald Registered Senior Member

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    Tiassa,

    This may not be the appropriate thread for my question, but you mentioned something about Mother Teresa in one of your posts above, and it triggered a memory of a book that I heard about (but haven't read yet). It's called "The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice," by Christopher Hitchens. Have you heard of it? Following is an editorial review which can be found at amazon.com:

    <font color="green">What's next--The Girl Scouts: The Untold Story? How could anybody write a debunking book about Mother Teresa and her Missionaries of Charity order? Well, in this little cruise missile of a book, Hitchens quickly establishes that the idea is not without point. After all, what is Mother Teresa doing hanging out with a dictator's wife in Haiti and accepting over a million dollars from Charles Keating? The most riveting material in the book is contained in two letters: one from Mother Teresa to Judge Lance Ito--then weighing what sentence to dole out to the convicted Keating--which cited all the work Keating has done "to help the poor," and another from a Los Angeles deputy D.A., Paul Turley, back to Mother Teresa that eloquently stated that rather than working to reduce Keating's sentence, she should return the money he gave her to its rightful owners, the defrauded bond-holders. (Significantly, Mother Teresa never replied.) And why do former missionary workers and visiting doctors consistently observe that the order's medical practices seem so inadequate, especially given all the money that comes in? (Hitchens acidly observes that on the other hand, Mother Teresa herself always manages to receive world-class medical care.) Hitchens's answer is that Mother Teresa is first and foremost interested not in providing medical treatment, but in furthering Catholic doctrine and--quite literally--becoming a saint.</font>

    Have you (or anyone else) read this book? If so, do you recommend it? Have you heard these charges against Mother Teresa before? Is there a book out that counters these charges?

    Thanks,

    Emerald
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Wowwwwww ......

    If I hide behind my sunglasses, it's to keep my eyes in my skull.

    To the other, attempting to be somewhat pragmatic ... yeah, I'll just stay behind my sunglasses for now.

    It wouldn't surprise me.

    I would hope it isn't so.

    Then again, we all know that God's dead, anyway, so we might as well milk the sad adherents for all the social benefit we can. In the meantime? Hey, stealing from the American economy is, technically, okay. I fully support the Brazilian patent stance forcing American companies to reduce the cost of life-saving drugs. A million here and a million there? Keating got away with much, much worse.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  15. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

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    Anti Christian Doctrine !

    The 'spirit' of The Anti-Christ is at work in this world of the lost and confused, perverted generations! Dangerous doctrines are being taught in schools. Damnable heresies are on this site!
    Beware the Deceiver (Devil) is on the prowl and will devour the weak !

    All of you who know not GOD will shortly come face to face with the God you thought did not exist and will be terrified at His very appearing! " It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living GOD!" Jesus forgives! Jesus saves!

    Beware the ANTI-Christ! The man of Sin! Who will one day set himself up, and to say he is GOD! But is the Devil himself in codnito! Beware!

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  16. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

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    Re: It's just more empty propaganda

    Tiassa: Did you and others not know that every word you wright or speak will be accounted for at the Great White Throne of Judgement? And ye will be eating every word when standing alone before GOD?! Seeing your whole life on a cosmic jumbotron screen? And all secrets ever committed?! Jesus is the only one that can change that picture, but only on this side of eternity! Jesus saves! You will one day come to Him, if not , then He will be your Judge! Beware the Anti-Christ!
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Feldergarb

    Well, here's the thing with that, Loone: If you're right and there's a God and Jesus, I'd say my interpretation of what God wants of me has about as even a shot as the next. For instance, I'm not out behaving like Jesus' hypocrite.

    Just make sure you're right about what your God really is before you go out and practice black magick.
    On the one hand, that would suck no matter what. To the other, it's not so rough--spend your childhood alienated, and that sort of cudgeling is, well, eighth grade.

    And think about this, to yet another: By the occasion of my birth and the circumstances God put before me, he has managed my data set. Sure, there's a sense of free will, but if I never vacation in Kabul to increase my cultural awareness, it is because that limited data set demands other priorities. For one who Knows All, as God is alleged to, the result of this is no surprise. Hence, I have no fear of Judgement for that which the Lord hath bestowed upon me.

    See? This is the problem with gutter theology: it's too easy. Some "brilliant" Christian thinkers spent their whole lives wrangling out these questions. But the data set some of us receive as a result of our intellectual liberty basically demonstrates the hidden possibilities of the religion as naked as your birth.

    And, furthermore, since Christians can't agree on what happens to those rejected by their Creator, well, a number of things arise. Primarily, that we are as God makes us, and need fear no wrath, or perhaps that God knows the whole thing's a sham.

    You'd think God would have been specific about the nature of his rejection, but there doesn't seem to be much consensus, except that God hates us because he made us imperfect, but that was on purpose so what's the effing point?
    You and your militaristic breed are the Anti-Christ. Waerloga. Period.

    --Tiassa

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  18. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Emerald,

    I haven't read the book yet but I watched a TV documentary last year that described all that you have said. It would seem that Mother Teressa is quite surprisingly worldly and quite aware of modern business practices.

    Yes I agree, she cannot be the saintly type we have been led to believe.

    Cris
     
  19. Rambler Senior Member Registered Senior Member

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    509
    Mother Theresa

    I've seen snipits of the same program Cris is talking about. It certainly appears that she isn't the person we are all led to believe she is....however she's about as christain as they come horns and all, so as far as christain sait hood goes she's right up there in the running, along with all the genocidal physco's and petaphiles the church has managed to nurture.

    2.2 cents (GST inc).
     
  20. Lawdog Digging up old bones Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Re: It's just more empty propaganda

    Dear Loone,

    I do not know what type of Christian you are, but one thing shall be certain, we are running the race like St. Paul if we practice what you preach, and shall win the crown of victory provided that we endure. I exhort you to great strivings in Holiness and recommend a half hour scripture a day.

    Thank you for helping spread the Truth of our Holy Faith.

    It is so obvious: Antichrist is probably already here! Just reading all this trash confirms all that is written in prophecy is NOW even more than it ever was, especially about those with itching ears.

    I will pray for you in our seminary,
    LAWDOG
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,882
    PSA

    This affirmation has been brought to you by the Sacrifice of the Intellect.

    Hey ... talk to the Mother Church about that: I ain't makin' it up, boys and girls.

    --Tiassa

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  22. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

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    Anti-Christ ! no joke!

    Look out Tiassa, the Anti-Christ is the one you would except, but he will turn out to be the BIGGEST MONSTER the world will ever know! Like Bill Clinton, he maybe charming and sophisticated and good looking and a superb politician. But he would be possessed by the Devil himself, and will plunge the whole world into Armageddon!! He will be far more merciless then Hitler or anyone else in human history! Do not take of the mark of the Beast, or the number of his name!! Or you will be lost forever!! Warning!! This is true!! Jesus is your only hope!

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  23. daktaklakpak God is irrelevant! Registered Senior Member

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    Did God created Devil? Or Devil is something that even God can't control?

    Did God allows Devil to corrupt men? Or God allows us to be corrupted by Devil?
     

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