Friday Night Sermon -- 06-12-01 [Falling In Line]

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by ISDAMan, Jun 16, 2001.

  1. Emerald Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    324
    Cris, Tiassa & Pragmathen,

    I arrived a bit late on this one, so you all have pretty well covered what I would have said had I been here. I'd just like to add one more thing, which ISDAMan and Loone might be able to relate to (apparently all of your eloquently stated points went right over their heads):

    <font color="red">Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

    Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.</font>


    Emerald
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    Thank you, Emerald

    Not only for the reference, but for the lesson.

    Here we see a reversal of the very process I accuse. For I had assumed that such passages as you had cited were self-evident to the Christians, who believe in and study their Bibles.

    Well, believe in, sure. If they studied the damn thing, they wouldn't have to be told, would they?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    thanx much,
    Tiassa

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Emerald Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    324
    Re: Thank you, Emerald

    Tiassa,

    No problem.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    You got it - explain it to 'em like they're 5 years old!

    The prerequisite for becoming a Christian is to believe unquestioningly. Actually taking the time to find out exactly what it is you believe is of secondary importance. This has been demonstrated to me time and time again, particularly in the case of fundamentalist Christians. When one steps inside a Christian church, the first thing one must do is to check one's brain at the door. It's much easier that way. Frontal lobotomy, anyone?

    Emerald
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,199
    Christian Laziness

    Emerald,

    Thanks for your scholarly biblical knowledge, you’ve made the point that I had been striving to reach, but in a way that our religious friends will have to acknowledge. And I had forgotten the obvious hypocrisy; the errors I had covered seemed adequate regardless.

    But I suspect that ISDA will have little trouble understanding these issues. I recognize in him a powerful intellect. Loone, I believe may be beyond our help and has not demonstrated any aptitude for independent reasoned thought, at least not in any of his posts that I have read.

    Loone’s decision to neglect his ability to think makes him appear as a mindless moron, and I am not using the term in a derogatory sense. The term ‘moron’ here indicates someone with lower than average intelligence. This means either that that someone is either deficient in that area or has consciously chosen not to exercise their abilities to think. To think clearly, logically and with reason takes practice and considerable effort. And I consider myself very much a beginner still. To take an easier course and to have someone else make the decisions is a great temptation for many but must be ultimately dissatisfying and personally destructive. The brain/mind like every other organ in the human body, when not exercised results in decay, deterioration, and eventually early death. Studies into anti-aging show this very clearly.

    So my point is that Christians have taken the laziness route, the more comfortable route, where they do not have to think for themselves. Consequently we see in Loone, especially and to large extent in ISDA those lazy thoughts that come far short of being able to reason and see clearly. The result is a mindless acceptance of dogmatic and automaton-like actions resulting in meaningless fantasies.

    But whereas Loone has simply given in to this laziness I suspect that ISDA is capable of re-energizing that part of his brain that will return his ability for critical and reasoned thought. Unfortunately it will take time and we cannot expect early realization of his errors. Most thoughtful people do learn from their mistakes, eventually, and I would like to think that ISDA may indeed one day achieve that overview and perspective of reality that will provide him that final realization of truth.

    So am I being arrogant and condescending towards our friends in the same way as I accused ISDA in his attitude towards me? No because he assumed he already knew the ultimate truth and that I did not. My approach is that I do not know the answers, and in fact no one can know for sure. My advice to ISDA is to take the rational approach to reality and to not jump to easy conclusions that cannot be verified, justified, or indeed have any confidence of being true. My advice is not one of telling but to merely suggest a more precise and proven process for finding truth.

    My strong suspicions are that there is no glorious end in store for humans, and that death is very unpleasant and final. It takes courage to face what is probably obvious and most likely very unpleasant.

    Cris
     
  8. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,199
    Emerald,

    Ha - I posted my last message before reading yours. I think we are in agreement - frontal lobotomy at the church door. I was simply trying to be polite and tactful though.

    Cris
     
  9. Rambler Senior Member Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    509
    Loone....

    You wrote:

    "I am always very glad to be corrected in any of my post concerning God's Holy Word.! "

    What about when that correction is made by someone who knows and understands that word better then yourself but happens to be an "unbeliever"?? you seem to ignore all of those corrections...It would have been more true to say that you are only willing to accept opinions which are the same as your own, i.e. christain.

    Further you also said:

    "Please respond and say 'hello' and I will always be responsible for what I post"

    LOL, you mean by re-iterating a post that has already angered people on the forum???

    At least your consistent with your christain beliefs, at best you are nothing but an ignorant sheep at worst you are a hypocrite. I would hope you are just plain stupid, and for your sake I hope this whole christain thing is in fact an outdated political tool because if there is a judgemental god up there your "christain lifestyle" would surely have to be punished.

    To everyone else on the forum I appolagise for the tone, but I'm so sick of these obvious "digs" at people being painted up as some kind of gracious act!!!!
     
  10. pragmathen 0001 1111 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    452
    This is in agreeance with what Cris wrote:

    <blockquote>
    <font size="1">quote:</font>
    <hr>
    <i>Originally posted by Cris:</i>
    So my point is that Christians have taken the laziness route, the more comfortable route, where they do not have to think for themselves.
    <hr>
    </blockquote>

    Prior to my 'awakening', I was seriously dating this one gal for going on a year (then again, maybe for some, that's not too serious). At any rate, we were both very close and she understood about a third of the way into our dating period that I was beginning to have serious doubts as to the religion we were a part of. Towards the end, it was very apparent to her that I would not continue participating in the religion.

    One poignant time comes to mind. We were driving up a canyon road and I told her what I felt about religion and God, not really holding much back. She became (much to my surprise, despite having dated her for that long) exceptionally emotional and demanded that I take her back home. As clear as I can recall, I was not being derogatory or defaming towards her belief of God or Christ. I was, instead, explaining what I thought of the two--i.e., no longer sure whether they existed, let alone cared about the human race. That was basically it, but she nearly plugged her ears and wanted me to stop talking and drive her back home. As I promptly started driving back home, I kept repeating to her, "It's okay. It shouldn't matter what I think. What you think is still safe. This is about me only." It didn't matter. She couldn't understand how anyone could put down or ignore Christ or God--it didn't make sense to her.

    Mainly because of that experience with her, I decided not to tell others specifically why I had chosen the way I think now. I figured that if they really wanted to know (as I did), they would look on their own and try to find out. Naturally, we broke things off and went our separate ways--but I couldn't live with the idea of sacrificing a goodly portion of my mind for her sake. Just didn't make sense to me. She had also said to me one day, "I just want to grow up and follow what my leaders say. I wish I didn't have to make decisions. I'd rather just sit back and follow." Seriously. No embellishment.

    One more example and then I'm done. That same close friend of mine that's ditched me since was getting married about three or so years ago. During that time I was becoming increasingly apathetic to religion though I did not let anyone know that. Anyway, his wife (and I know I'm giving away what my former religious belief system was by saying this, but what can you do?) had a serious problem with the subject of polygamy as practiced in her church in the past. She frequently said that she could not get married in case her husband (my friend) had to someday agree to practice polygamy. Somehow she 'resolved' this concern. When I asked my friend, rather inconspicuously, how she resolved it, he said, "Oh, I just told her that I wouldn't do that. That God's not going to be asking people to do that." I just nodded and pretended like he was right. Actually, he was not (even according to his religion's teachings).

    What did this friend's wife teach me about Cris' statement? That Christians really prefer to put things on the back burner as far as doubts and concerns and let God answer them in His own due time. And if that due time happens to be after death, so much the better. As long as they don't have to clutter their mind with such irrelevance, they're happy to remain ignorant of whatever facts are there.

    thanks again,

    prag
     
  11. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    462
    The Truth shell set you free!

    Pragmathen & Tiassa: Our Lord and saviour Jesus is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. No matter how far you and others have gone from the faith, as long as you have life in your blood on the Earth and the breath of life in you, you can be set free, saved by grace unto the Father God through Jesus the Son of God. You can ponder the mysteries of GOD, the Faith better filled with His Holy Spirit of GOD.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    You all definitely not really understand the scriptures and GOD, being in rebellion as unbelievers, scorners of the Word of God, Pharisees! THe human intellect alone is not enough, and can never really fathom the the ETERNAL and the supernatural aspects of GOD and His Words are far beyond that! You are deceiving your selves if you think your know what your doing here, and I say it's sounds quite cultish to me.
    The only way, is what the Word of GOD (the Bible) really says is the way, and that is to surrender your pride and arrogance, and humble your selves unto Jesus, and His Word! Any other way is an horrible deception that will ultimately destroy you in the end.
    "For sin when it is finished, bringeth forth DEATH! "

    You can never have an true understanding of Faith out side of Christ! Your probably under powerful demonic deception, and "so much knowledge, puffeth up." To be totally blind to the truth, that many will create there own realities!
     
  12. Rambler Senior Member Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    509
    Sir Looney Toon

    I realise that your comments were ment for Tiassa and Prag...but this is a public forum so sue me.

    What is your interpretation of the word TRUTH??? everyone seems to understand that for it to be considered true it MUST be verified. Your holy book makes ALOT of claims and NON absolutley NON have actually been verified by an unbias source. Further there have been coutless discussions on this forum alone that point out the contradictions of your faith (which I might add get ignored by the "believers"). So you can keep deluding yourself with the myths and beliefs of an ignorant ancient society and keep telling yourself its the truth, but be aware that the only people with cultist inclinations here are the die hard christains like yourself who are either unable or unwilling to grasp the totality of the bible....

    So what is that makes you so faithfull, is it the comfort you get from avoiding taking resposibilty for your actions or is the fear that your religion inspires in its subjects?
     
  13. Emerald Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    324
    Cris,

    This may have been inspired in part by the Newcastle I've been enjoying this evening, but as a friend of mine used to say, I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    I admire your efforts at diplomacy, but I felt the time had come for me to be blunt. I guess you might say that ISDAMan and Loone have begun to get under my skin a bit more lately with their "holier-than-thou" routine. I haven't had as much time for responding lately, so I guess I've been making it short and not-so-sweet in recent weeks. Sorry about that, Cris.

    Emerald
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    For the record, Loone, establish for me this: When the hell did I ever say I knew what I was doing in this Universe?

    That the answers I have chosen make more sense to me is exactly why I have chosen those answers. Unlike the fixed faith of Christianity, the Universe is a constant adventure of discovery to me. Perspectives pass to shadow and emerge anew. Change, Loone, is a natural part of the Universe. How that change affects a person is a natural part of that person's Universe. One's Universe must be flexible and not fixed, else it burst asunder or stop learning.

    As to the rest of that gibberish, Loone, it appears that you are incapable of understanding the basic nature of integrity: It's a nice promise, I admit. But it has no foundation, no demonstrable device, and no harmony of application; this promise you call faith has no integrity.
    I mean, take this for example. Loone, would I call my urologist to repair my toilet? Why, for the love of humanity, would I take diabological advice from a man devoid of relevant knowledge? Perhaps if you could demonstrate some knowledge base and not pure superstition and supercilious assumption, you might carry some credibility. In the meantime, it's just more of the same desperation.
    I enjoy discovering God's Universe so damn much, why would I want to stop? A sacrifice of the intellect nullifies itself: it removes one's understanding of the sacrifice. Kind of a heresy unto the self, as such.

    Waerloga.

    --Tiassa

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  15. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,199
    Ah heck Emerald I hadn’t wanted you to apologize, my comment concerning politeness wasn’t a rebuke of you. I guess I should have added a smiley to that post.

    I think the frustration we both share is that the Christians do not speak our language. As I’ve said and highlighted before ‘reason’ and ‘faith’ are opposites, and cannot overlap. But it is worse in a debate where reason has to be a primary component. The Christians do not debate; they simply make assertions. And they see little need to provide justifications since that isn’t a requirement in a faith-based protocol.

    The more we include reason the more they will simply shout their assertions louder. Notice how Loone sometimes entirely capitalizes GOD. He has no concept of being able to use a convincing argument and hopes that if he repeats and shouts the same failed assertions often enough then we might start to believe him. But to formulate a convincing argument one must be able to construct logical components, at which time ‘faith’ has to be dismissed and Loone would become one of us.

    Cris
     

Share This Page