tony1, Your posts only show how ignorant you are, the only way you got to "prove" your statements is by attacking other people. Ineed you are a fanatic. i wont answer any of your further posts, so dont even mind to reply.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Put to the test Amazing. Tony, I concede that for a period of time, there definitely were more people converting to christianity than there were converting to non-christianity. I can even concede that it's probably the case in this day and age. But that doesn't change the fact that the math works both ways. The number of christians I'm sure far excedes 100. And because there ARE a large number of christians, the math DOES work both ways. It all depends on how you arrange the numbers. Some number arrangements make it look like there are more people converting TO christianity and other number arrangements make it look like there are more people converting FROM christianity. And in BOTH ways you can still end up with christians. See tony, if you'd have read the WHOLE post, it would be evident that tiassa did not say that a half a brain is preferred to a whole brain. Oops you spoke too soon, tony. The difference is 1%. Although I'm not sure you can get 101% of a population.
maybe you're a little weak in math You took the word right out of my mouth. Let's look at this more closely. Each person, when he/she is born is not a Christian. That means that the total number of Christians born in the entire planet is zero. Any change from zero Christians is an increase in the number of Christians. Any person who "converts" to non-Christianity is in exactly the same non-Christian state he/she was born into. That represents no change at all, although you claim that it is an increase in the number of non-Christians. Before the year zero (one for the purists), there were zero Christians. If at any time there are ever any Christians in existence at all, that means the number of Christians increased. If every single Christian "converted" to non-Christianity, all that would mean is that you are back to zero Christians. You can't end up with less than zero Christians. So, it still doesn't work both ways. To recap, you can't end up with less than zero Christians, but you can end up with more than zero Christians. I was afraid you'd say that. 100% of a population is the population. 101% of a population is an impossibility.
Re: maybe you're a little weak in math If that's the case, tony, than people aren't really changing TO christianity. You just agreed with me tony. I never said ANYTHING about ending up with less than zero christians. That was YOUR way of attempting to twist things to make it look impossible. You said it yourself right here. If every single christian converted to non-christianity then that would mean that more people are converting FROM christianity than TO christianity. Just like I said, tony. The math works both ways. You can either end up with more christians or you can end up with less christians. It wasn't starting with zero christians that started this line of debate. It was fact that you said you couldn't have more christians converting FROM christianity than you had converting TO christianity. You're agreeing with me more and more often, tony.
Brilliant theory, except no one "converts" to non-Christianity. If you start out non-Christian and end up as a non-Christian, nothing changed.
I think I see what you two are fighting about. Tony1 would probably believe in "Once saved always saved". So really it is a misunderstanding. The reason tony would be saying that noone converts to non-christianity is because once you're Christian you are always Christian. The ones who "convert" back weren't really Christian in the first place. Am I right guys?
If nothing changed then you never became a christian. Either it's a change or it's not a change, tony.
I'd say you're right. A complete difference in perspective. Wow, and if tony's right, then there must be a whole lot of people calling themselves christians that aren't truly christians. Wait a minute. I've heard that somewhere before.
Not the way most people mean that. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (Matthew 24:13, KJV). There is a long time between now and the end and you won't be saved until the end. Among other things, what we're saved from is death... Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:20, KJV). Thus, until you've been saved from death, you haven't been saved from everything. I'm saying no one "converts" to non-Christianity because that is not conversion; it is reversion. More or less, yes. I'm looking at the issue from the end, which is where these issues are decided. felix is looking at it minute by minute. Exactly. You think? Some of these people will even be saying Jesus is Lord. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:21-23, KJV).
Covnversion? Non Christian = Christian = Non Christian = no change? Hardly. If I have a coin, one side is heads (Christian) the other side is Tails (Non Christian), I flip it and it comes up Heads - but I dont want that so I flip it again and it comes up tails (Non Christian). Same coin - different side = same person different belief!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Re: Covnversion? Let me explain it for you. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (Matthew 24:13, KJV). See, no enduring until the end = not saved. Not saved=non-Christian. Therefore, your equation goes... non-Christian=non-Christian (but thought he was a Christian)=non-Christian=no change. See how all three conditions are the same, "non-Christian?"
Woe is me! Tony1 - How a Christian can have the NERVE to state that, just because a person is NON Christian they shall not reap the rewards of "heaven" is so hypocritical it is insulting. A pagan can lead the most rewarding of lives; helps his or her fellow humans and animals on this planet for the entire span of their life, never commit any of the so called Commandments; be a model citizen, bring up lovingly their children etc etc and be condemned to hell as a non christian - what a load of hyprocritical hogwash!!! So the likes of buddha rots in hell? Now I really have seen the unacceptable face of christianity!! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Red Devil You know, Tony1 might have a point that a pagan will not be redeemed as such. I've always had this nagging feeling that God is just a market-share freak. Such assertions as the one to which you object are what convinces me that should that God exist, He is nothing more than a petty-brat egomaniac bent on hurting people as much as possible for not kissing His Holy Ass. On the note of God's ego, there is an old Muslim story, cited in Russell's Lucifer: the Devil in the Middle Ages, which asserts that Satan fell from Heaven because God gave him contradictory orders and Satan merely asked for clarification. By the telling of that story, Satan fell because he loved God too much to bow before Mankind. Such supplication would have contradicted his prior order to submit to nothing save God. thanx, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Re: Woe is you! *Originally posted by Red Devil Tony1 - How a Christian can have the NERVE to state that, just because a person is NON Christian they shall not reap the rewards of "heaven" is so hypocritical it is insulting. A pagan can lead the most rewarding of lives; helps his or her fellow humans and animals on this planet for the entire span of their life, never commit any of the so called Commandments; be a model citizen, bring up lovingly their children etc etc and be condemned to hell as a non christian - what a load of hyprocritical hogwash!!! So the likes of buddha rots in hell? Now I really have seen the unacceptable face of christianity!! * Let's see. You bring up a number of issues here, some important, some less so. Let's start with the "condemned to hell" thing. Hell being the grave means we are all going there. Or, do you have a problem with cemeteries, too? Now, your non-Christian pagan friend will be there, regardless. Buddha's already there. How that is hypocritical is beyond me. Haven't you ever seen graves before? The problem for most will be the issue of rising up out of that grave, alive. Can you do that by yourself? If not, you may need some help. *Originally posted by tiassa Satan fell from Heaven because God gave him contradictory orders and Satan merely asked for clarification.* Satam fell from heaven because he lost his power. And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (Luke 10:17,18, KJV).
"The problem for most will be the issue of rising up out of that grave, alive. Can you do that by yourself? If not, you may need some help." *Synaesthesia waits for someone, christian or nonchristian to rise from the grave, with or without help.* ... ... *Synaesthesia continues waiting* ... ... *Synaesthesia glances at his watch* ... ... Tony, I'm not sure if I believe you.
Originally posted by synaesthesia Synaesthesia waits for someone, christian or nonchristian to rise from the grave, with or without help.* ... ... *Synaesthesia continues waiting* ... ... *Synaesthesia glances at his watch* ... ... Tony, I'm not sure if I believe you. * Allow me to assist you. You don't believe. The time is not now. The time is the last day, the resurrection.
