George Lucas has turned the once great Star Wars saga to CRAP

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by chrism, Aug 18, 2001.

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What did you think of Star Wars: Episode I?

Poll closed Aug 22, 2001.
  1. The best I could expect - as good as the originals

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. A good movie, but not up to par with the original trilogy

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. A pretty bad overall movie, had some good moments

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  4. The worst piece of crap imaginable

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  5. Better than all three of the original movies - one of the best movies ever

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. chrism Registered Member

    Messages:
    1
    George Lucas made three great movies with the Star Wars trilogy. They were wildly original, very well-written stories with a lot of character and much fun. What the hell happened?! Star Wars Episode I sucked! That movie was the biggest disappointment in my entire moviegoing life. It was an atrocity, the movie had no characters at all to feel for, the story was a jumbled mess of stupid ideas. All George cares about any more is how many bright, shiny computer effects he can throw into the movie. And now he's planning to release Episode II: Attack of the Clones?? That title right there should throw up a red flag. Episode II is going to be an even stupider movie than Episode I, and the only reason anyone will see it or give it decent reviews is because of the success of the original trilogy. I know any Star Wars fan could write a better script for Episode I than Lucas did. That movie was the suckiest piece of crap ever!!!
     
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  3. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,495
    Heeya heeya.
    In the next movie they should just slice off jar jar's head and dedicate a good portion of it to boba fett, even though it wouldn't be the same as the star wars timeline of events. I think Lucas should stop directing and get his pal speilberg in to do the job, I bet he'd jump if lucas asked him. Cause lucas sucks at directing, he did Episode One.
    I have faith in the second movie, because in my opinion the empire strikes back was the best of the four because it had action, romance, politics, and a tint of humor. Everything required for a good movie, plus lucas didn't direct it.
    I thought at the academy awards the judges judged the effects in Episode one wrongly just because the movie sucked. If you remember The Matrix won, and star wars had fifty times more special effects shots and effects themselves. Did the matrix have an animated character? No. Did the matrix invent new ways of animation and improve upon old ones? No.
    It totally sucked.
     
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  5. Neb Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    103
    I wouldn't say that Episode 1 was crap, but it certainly wasn't good.
    If George Lucas had of waited till the special effects was available in the first place and had of released them in order 1-6 maybe the reviews to episode 1 would have been better.
    It was a challenging task to release the precules.
    Another thing to take into account are the actors who have played the characters.The fans of the last 3 have an affinity with Harrison Ford Carrie Fisher and so forth, its hard to relate to the new characters bar Anakin,I thought that young kid did a wonderful job of his role.
    The worst thing in Episode 1 though was that he had those computer animation commentators, it was so American,it spoiled the integrity of every other Star Wars movie I feel.
     
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  7. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,495
    That kid sucked!! Have you seen "Jingle All the way (another sucky movie)?" Lucas' directing is also terrible. The movie wasn't horrible, but it didn't live up to its expectations.
    It basically begins the timeline for most of what occurs in the Star Wars Universe! Expanded and in the movies.

    They should remake it.
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    Some things to consider

    One thing one must remember when watching Star Wars, especially A New Hope, is that there is nothing original about the story writing. It is a classic romantic adventure from start to finish: hero with humble beginnings (Luke), love interest critical to the plot (Leia), rugged ambivalent protagonist (Solo) and buddy-complex (Chewbacca), wise teacher (Obi-Wan) of esoteric clan (Jedi), menacing antagonist (Vader), antagonistic complication (Tarkin), comic relief (R2D2 & C3PO), magic (the Force), swashbuckling (lightsabers) .... The WWII scenes added a nice contrast (X-Wing fight over Death Star) to the classic fantasy tale, but if you take out the sci-fi elements and the necessary special effects, you pretty much have a stock King Arthur fantasy. Star Wars is a classic in part because it set a visual standard, and Hollywood has never been the same since. Consider the bulk of science-fiction adventures to come since, and that the nearest competitors for integrity are actually a Star Trek enterprise (Wrath of Khan) and a TV show (Battlestar Galactica).

    Does anyone remember The Last Starfighter? Does anyone care? How about Peppard and "Jon-Boy Walton" in Battle Beyond the Stars? Come to think of it, with all the science-fiction adventures dotting the shelves at your local video stores, few are of any quality.

    Though only slightly relevant, it is worth noting that, of four stars, local reviewers (Seattle) are known for awarding Star Wars two stars, Empire four (or three-and-a-half), and Jedi two-and-a-half. (One of our local critics gave Phantom Menace one star.)

    What is the expectation that we had of Phantom Menace? Compare that, then, to what a viewer's expectation is on the first viewing of A New Hope. It's a different ballgame. People were hoping for the same sort of leap, and of course they were disappointed. But it's a huge story to manage, and everything must make sense to a certain degree, else the story comes apart.

    Locally, I know a lot of people (including our sourpuss critic) who despised Jar-Jar Binks. Yet this character fits the format of a full-blown fantasy, and might be compared in some ways to Matthew Broderick's "Phillip the Mouse" in Lady Hawke. There are a few things about Jar-Jar that are important to keep in mind:

    * He's a stock-format character: cowardly sidekicks abound in this type of fantasy/science-fiction adventure.
    * He is comic relief, and a means of creating a certain, frustrated empathy between the audience and the characters (namely ... well, I can't spell Neeson's character without looking it up, and I'm lazy right now).
    * In that sense, the bumbling idiot character also accentuates the values of the protagonist: the Jedi is patient and understanding, fleet of mind and foot, and prepared for any eventuality.
    * Jar-Jar was a technological braggadocio. It was rather difficult to create such a realistic animation; the subtlety of his bouncing, dance-like motions are tough to overlay.
    * Above all, Jar-Jar was a hit with the kids; they're part of the audience, and even if you're Lucas, you still need to reach toward all elements of your audience; it's what the Ewoks were for.
    * In contrast, Darth Maul was a good idea, but his pro-wrestler sense of combat-hype belied his elegant motion, and that devil face-paint was just a little over the top.

    So what you have is another A New Hope: a technological extravaganza designed to carry a thin script. Audience problem: we've seen it before. This is not a problem when you stop and think in a sense of scale: how much more detail was there in each effects frame? How much more dense was each illusion? Just because we're not seeing the leap from This Island Earth to A New Hope with Chapter I does not mean the leap is not there.

    One of the risks Lucas took, which I still wonder about, was the cast. Not that they were bad, but the acting wasn't particularly brilliant--even Jackson, in his minor role, seemed out of place of sorts. But consider that the best-known cast members of A New Hope at the time of its release were Carrie Fisher and the voice of James Earl Jones. Anthony Daniels, I'm told, had some reputation prior to the film, but nobody had the Hollywood stature of Neeson, MacGregor, Jackson, or Portman. I would assert that Lucas would have been better off with unknowns; what's-his-name-young-Anakin was a solid as we could hope for. I think the audience's expectations of the cast were let down by the nature of the story and the resulting anemia of the script.

    Okay, I'll concede the commentators bit to Neb, except I would like to suggest that even George Lucas is known to take his social-commentary potshots. The idiocy of the pod-race commentators was a deliberate brushback pitch at the audience; we tolerate those kinds of morons in real life, and besides, this was a mortal race and why not include pro-wrestling styled attitudes around it? But, yeah ... after the South Park "Gay Dog" episode, there's not much left to hurl at the audience along the line of crass, silly sports commentators.

    A couple of last comments:

    * I actually expect the release title of Episode II to be Clone Wars, adhering to the phrase bequeathed unto us by Obi-Wan in A New Hope.

    * It is very difficult for Hollywood to choke up an Academy to the goliath independents (consider Spielberg's record; it took them a while). The Matrix was made by the Hollywood organizations, and not by the outsider that outdoes them constantly. And it's not like members of the Academy are into subtlety. They would prefer to see naked effects as compared to something subtle. The leap from older films to A New Hope was stunning. The leap from Jedi to Phantom Menace could not have been so stunning, unless you were looking very closely at how many frames were nearly entirely effects, and that was difficult because, by and large, he pulled it off. But I don't expect the Academy to notice.

    * Lastly, remember that after so many kids fantasized A New Hope, it took a while for the entertainment industry to catch on. In the modern day, though, products are designed before the movie is finished; since Lucas also has a software imprint in the empire, some of the film needs to be visually accessible in the video-game format.

    * Whoops ... and Lastly (again) ... Just like Carter blew X-Files in order to make his movie, so did Lucas face the same problem. Carter worked hard to bend the X-Files series to adapt to a movie that would also be accessible to those who never watched the series. The show hasn't been the same since. Lucas had taken ... twelve, thirteen ... years away? There's a whole new audience that needs to be brought up to speed; in addition to matching the plot to what we already know about A Long Time Ago In A Galaxy Far Far Away, he also had to accommodate those who somehow managed to never see the original trilogy.

    Final rating on the four-star scale: 2.5 It wasn't brilliant, but it was the most rewarding ticket I'd spent for a number of years. And for that, I thank Mr Lucas greatly.

    thanx all,
    Tiassa

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  9. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,495
    they should've had that kid from the sixth sense and AI. He was pretty good, if a bit old, but he would've made a good anakin if lucas didn't ruin his excellent acting with his crappy direction.
     
  10. dexter ROOT Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    689
    well...
    i am greatly looking forward to ep. II. and ep III. if lucas doesnt focus on the children so much again... i will agree that it should be suited for EVERYONE. but EVERYONE as in people over 12.... i mean, sure... the special effects were nice. and the fighting was again, unbelievable(i know i spelt it wrong. and un believable in a good way)
    now to ep II. i have read, for quite some time that epII would be about the clone wars. which should be very very kool. and it should be darker too, much like empire strikes back.
    it is going to be deeper, and we will see more. the first one was just to set the next 2 up... and i think george got the idea that people dont want to see jar jar for quite some time....
    because, this one was almost EXACTLY like a new hope. besides the obvious.... new ships, new big enemy ships to blow up, new girl (last girlfriend accually looked like a blond natatalieportman... very kool)



    welll, time to end this, and get onto another comp. to do work...


    i will defiently see ep II first day, again... and my friends dad saw ep 3(a new hope, for you dumbasses) the first showing, on the first day... it is all VERY kool

    and episode I wasnt THAT bad... i know you guys liked the light saber fights...... and looking at the queen the whole time.. i mean, she's no princess, but what can you do?! (i am hopeing to see another golden bikini soon.... hehehhehehe)

    -dexter
     
  11. generalhurrss Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    53
    What did people expect from episode I, Darth Vader and Stormtroopers? You all seem to forget that this is not Star Wars as we remember. It is the story of Vader's creation. I give 10 out of 10 to George Lucas for even attempting this tale. He did not have to go through all this expenditure, but he did and he did it for a lot of Star Wars fans. So the thankless ones can remember that he did this solely for you so that you could view the entire story.
    Episode I has to be watched with the mind of episode I not episode IV.
     
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    Generalhurrss

    I'll salute that one all the way; there are so few storytellers left in the movie industry. However, to reconcile this declaration with my prior review:

    When I watch a film, I watch a film how I watch films; I do not expect this to be any more or less ridiculous or sound a method than the next person's perception. But as an aspiring writer, I do focus largely on the writing; my favorite movies are actually based around writing and execution, and neither requires much effort in the SFX department: Closet Land and Lotus Eaters. To the other, I have a set of "favorite" films which don't really lack anything compared to those films, but I appreciate the writing of those particular films more. The second-tier pseudo-B Class Warlock cracks me up every time I watch it; it's a pure camp horror film that takes itself just seriously enough to work--at no phase do I assert premiere moviemaking, but Julian Sands' best performance (really, I can't stand anything else I've seen him in) helps a great deal, and I could go on about that one film forever. Caddyshack is one of the best films I've ever seen, but only when taken in its context. Much like Warlock was a pure camp horror film, Caddyshack was a pure sketch-cum-feature kitsch comedy. The writing is incredibly disjointed and poorly organized, but it doesn't matter because they were just trying to string enough jokes together to keep you laughing through ninety minutes (give or take ... I think it's about 82, but I forget). (To the other, I have personal favorites for no particular reason, like Weird Science and so forth.

    But look at Empire of the Sun or Hope and Glory, you see an narrow focus--one character in the scheme of things. To look at a Star Wars, we see a sense of historical myth much like Americans treat the US Revolution or Civil War. The characters are only there because they need to; the story would best be told in a generalized retelling similar to my college texts' recounting of the European political situation descending into WWII. So, by necessity, the writing is somewhat anemic from a sympathetic or empathic point of view, aimed at propelling larger issues into a cathartic whole. What Generalhurrss reminds me with his assessment is that even though Lucas had some idea of the scale of the story at least by the undertaking of Empire, it's still a ridiculous thing to attempt to box yourself in like that and work somewhat backwards. It takes balls of steel, and that we know Lucas has. Episode I did much in those terms to show me much of the process that worked toward the stories we already know; it is worth mentioning that despite my criticisms of the writing as anemic, it is effective writing. I'm actually wondering if I've pegged part of the plot for Vader's fall to the dark side--a failed messiah exploited in reaction, perhaps?

    (I would, as an aside, like to note that by the time X-Files reached the movie phase, little surprised me; I feel I was somehow in phase with the creative process of the show, as one evening's bad jokes about Duchovny in The Rapture led me to describe a "should-be" episode that would, six months later, show on the air, complete with Mulder nose-job jokes--Lucas continues to surprise me so Star Wars escapes this danger, but I'm a fan of my current theory about a failed messiah.)

    So the writing in Phantom Menace was effective, but hardly brilliant. As a general movie effort, I withdraw my 2.5/4, and as I noted, for its ticket I received more than I do from anyone else on the market, Spielberg included. So I believe the good General has a fair point.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  13. AnotherHuman Registered Member

    Messages:
    4
    "Attack of the Clones".. what next? "The Stem Cells Strike Back"?
     
  14. MuliBoy psykyogi Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    266
    I actually harbor the hope that episode2 will be the real start of the tale. Episode1 felt like a confused introduction to the era which the new trilogy takes place in.

    I felt great after seeing "menace" at the movies, but the shine did wear off when getting it on video. But it´s still a good movie. I´m convinced Jar Jar would have been a cooler character if he wasn´t done in abysmal cg.

    I´d have to say that episode1 lies on the same level as "jedi". "Jedi" is no masterpiece either. Actually it´s quite stiff and rigid until the showoff between Darth, Luke and the emperor.

    Empire strikes back is wonderful. I have no expectations of ever seeing another starwars movie in that class.
     
  15. Bebelina kospla.com Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,036
    Tiassa

    I have no recollection whatsoever of Battle beyond the stars, but who can forget John-Boy Walton?

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  16. CounslerCoffee Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,997
    I still hate George Lucas.
     
  17. Dracula's Guest Twisted firestarter Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    112
    Sorry but Episode 1 was a let down

    Episode 1 did suffer from the amount of hype it had, but it just wasnt a very good film. A lot of people are hoping that Episode 2 will be darker like "The Empire Strikes back", but I dont think that will solve anything. George Lucas should make the next Star Wars film completely different from any of the previous films. Re-hashing the earlier films isnt going to work at all.

    I liked the idea of a young, hot-headed Obi Wan Kenobi, I kind of wished they explored that more. I remember hearing about Episode 1 several years back and originally expected Anakin to be 8 yrs old during the first half hour of the film, and perhaps flashing forward a few years to get really stuck in to his story of becoming a Jedi. Episode 1 Wasted too much time, it was bloated and the action just got boring after a while
     

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