John Ronald Reuel Tolkien - The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings

Discussion in 'Art & Culture' started by Ronhrin, Feb 27, 2004.

  1. Ronhrin Registered Senior Member

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    until a few years ago I've never heard about the existence of this writer and those books....I've gained knwoledge of these epic books when I've first heard about the making of the first movie of a triology (lord of the rings - the fellowship of the ring)...I've heard that this movie would be based on a novel...a tale....one of the best books ever written....so...I've searched about it...the book and the writer...and I found a entire universe behind him....a thousand of metal bands....lone singers...etc....making music about tolkiens writtings...and to be honest...until this day I've never finished reading the books....but what I've seen in the movies was perfect....but my doubt remains about the lord of the rings...I know it's a great tale....a outstanding book....but...why such a mith?....I'm sure there's a lot of books with great stories...great battles...great misteries....why is lord of the rings the sucess that it is?....why is it one of the best books ever written?
     
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  3. Kunax Sciforums:Reality not required Registered Senior Member

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    Perhaps its the work done behind the books, JRR use a lot of time and efford to create a universe for his stories, there by creating a functional background for the books them self.

    ps.
    never read the books my self.
     
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  5. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    "why is it one of the best books ever written?"

    i kind of feel that this doesn't need an explanation. it speaks for itself.
     
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  7. Kunax Sciforums:Reality not required Registered Senior Member

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    it could have been better if all the halflings died, and those hero wanabes got enslaved, but hey thats just me

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  8. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    pftt ok

    it's not possible for me to love lotr any more than i already do but just in case i'm seeing the movie again on sunday.
     
  9. Jaxom Tau Zero Registered Senior Member

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    As said, Tolkien used great detail for the world in which his story takes place, probably more so than any other writer has done. There are others that come to mind as well, who had set down rules and settings by which all their stories would be based on. Niven's Known Space, McCaffrey's Pern, Roddenberry's Star Trek, Straczynski's Babylon 5. The work to create their universes gave them a sense of believability, and Tolkien di exactly that...more so, in fact, since the languages (a key factor in LOTR) are considered detailed enough to be real in themselves, even though they are fantasy based.
     
  10. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    1,908
    but even within the highly detailed fantasy setting, the characters have very relatable human emotion and classic themes that span genres and worlds, both real and imaginary.

    it's also one of the best examples of hero cycle ever written.
     
  11. Ronhrin Registered Senior Member

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    11 oscars to the final movie...I just wonder how many oscars would the books "sweep"...it is definitly the best triology ever made...I can't deny it...the best book ever written...I've been reading the hobbit...and....wow....I'm completly thrilled.....this is not a work of art...this is a work of perfection.....

    something I would say to JRR Tolkien...

    "Mr. Tolkien....you bound for no one"
    and all the world bound to him

    he's not a mister...he's a master


    some decades later...your work still thrills this "middle-earth"
     
  12. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    33,264
    It took over 5 years to make this epic and over 25,000 people were involved in bringing it to the cinema. They deserve every oscar they won, congratulations to them and the people of New Zealand where it was filmed primarily at.
     
  13. alain du hast mich Registered Senior Member

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    Lord of the Rings does so well for a few reasons
    * it is the original fantasy book, before it, Goblins, Elves and Fairies were all the same, Orcs did not exist and the idea of using magic in a story was unheard of.
    *Extreme detail, the three movies, whilst being great, still came no-where near to the book, The silmarillion is a book explaining Lord of the Rings in more detail. It and LOTR the book goes to great lengths describing the Valar (Gandalf, Sauron, Saruman, The Balrog, Tom Bombadil) and the Mayar (even more powerful) as well as people such as Treebeard and Shelob.
    *Great Heros
    * Relates to the real world (as in, is this world, in the past)

    thank you tolkien
     
  14. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    "and the idea of using magic in a story was unheard of."

    I'm fairly certain that generations of story tellers are even now rising from their graves and coming to visit horrible tortures upon you. Tolkeins use of magic was like that in much of myth and legend, subtle and unexplained. Like the Palantir, they worked somehow, by magic, but he never explained exactly how.
    And tom Bombadil is not one of the VAlar. He is a different being altogether, it seems Tolkein put him in as a wee mystery, since he doesnt really belong in the LOTR world.
     
  15. certified psycho Beware of the Shockie Monkey Registered Senior Member

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    Sadly J.R.R when writing this story in the 50's or when ever never wanted this to be a trilogy

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  16. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    30's

    and it isn't a trilogy. just a more convenient way to publish a hefty work.
     
  17. certified psycho Beware of the Shockie Monkey Registered Senior Member

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    oh,... a smart move though.
     
  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    Read up on "archetypes." A large set of motifs that turn up in all cultures in all eras. They are either 1. pre-programmed synapses that are accidents of evolution, or 2. instincts that turned out to be survival traits so all of our ancestors ended up with them, or 3. artificial memories that the goddess breathes into every embryo on its way out the birth canal, as a way of reminding us that deep down inside we're all the same. Tolkien did a marvelous job of capturing quite a few of them and putting them together into a story that resonated with the way people in Western civilization were feeling at the time. Atom bombs, Nazis, concentration camps, gulags, the War to end all Wars, you get the idea. It puts him in a class with Shakespeare, Homer, the Bible, and, yes, Star Wars and many of the more recent writings that have been mentioned in this thread. Since Jung merged psychology with mythology things haven't been the same. Writers can now consciously manage archetypes in their writing. But just having the archetypes doesn't make a good story. You still have to have talent.
     
  19. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    1,908
    note: good place to start is with joseph campbell
     
  20. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    I forgot to mention Harry Potter. Talk about archetypes! If you want the best examples, look in the pantheons of the polytheistic religions. Diana, the Hunter; Hephaestus, the Caregiver; Dionysis, the Reveler. They tend to have pretty near the same number of gods, which is the same as the number of individual important characters in Shakespeare's plays. I think the number is 23, because I remember remarking how wonderful that it's a prime number.

    The Meyers-Briggs personality profile test, while derived from Jung's work by two of his students, narrows it down to sixteen and is thus able to stuff into a neat 2x2x2x2 paradigm. Real life is never that neat and simple.

    One of the many objections I have to the monotheistic religions. They make life seem so simple. Everything is good or bad. You're either with God or with the Devil. The see a binary universe as if it were created by a computer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2004
  21. alain du hast mich Registered Senior Member

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    1,179
    "Tolkeins use of magic was like that in much of myth and legend, subtle and unexplained. Like the Palantir, they worked somehow, by magic, but he never explained exactly how."

    But he does explain some things better than myths, no ever explains why mixing a toads leg and ravens blood can curse some1 that a witch doesnt like, but LOTR at least goes as far as to say that the people get their power from Godlike beings (its at least as developed as the Bible, maybe more so.) unfortunately, the bible sells better
     
  22. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    4,089
    I dont know, does LOTR say people get their power from god like beings? I thought they got it more through being themselves, and of course through their bloodline as well. If anything, The Silmarillion might have more information, but I dont have an encyclopaedic memory, and thus cannot remember if it does or not.
     
  23. alain du hast mich Registered Senior Member

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    guthrie - "I dont know, does LOTR say people get their power from god like beings?"
    i think so, check out quotes from the movie

    gandalf - "i am the weilder of the secret flame of Arnor"
    and "dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun" (about the Balrog)
    Arnor and Udun are the Godlike beings that i am talking about, i think there is more in The Silmarillion, but i didnt read much of that, anyone else know??
     

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