*Gendy* Quote:Know who's a curse on the world? Elizabeth Taylor. LOL. Great! The first laugh I've had all day. Its always a curse when one is allowed to see the extremes- that something so beautiful could end up so incredibly damaged and wrinkled. Monroe and Kelly are perfect- they died early and so left us a picture but Taylor and Hepburn..........yeeesh, scare the shit out of me. This is what years will do to us, Lucy. I know it's true. I remember my grandmother saying tis best to 'make a pretty corpse', though my grandmother lived till she was beyond wrinkles. The old broad didn't care a wink about her looks even when she was younger, so she didn't give a hoot when she lost her youth and beauty. She continued to work, travel and enjoy herself. She did whatever the hell she liked and who didn't like it could kiss it. How I turned out to be the princess in the family is beyond me, really. I wonder about aging though, I mean I do care about my looks..vanity of vanities ('everything is a vanity and chasing after wind'). I am actually dim-witted enough to think I will always look the way I do now, cannot imagine being the decrepit crow. Women get freaked out too, just look at all the plastic surgery and botox nonsense! I mean Cher looks as if she is made completely of plastic. It's so sad! Why can't they just grace into their twilight years. With any luck my grandmothers genes will kick in and I will take on her spirit. Quote:You can work your whole life a rebellious spirit, a woman with a good head on her shoulders, a distinguished name and tickets to the opera on Fridays.....but what would be the point in finding the only one warming your bed at night is you? Wow! Never thought of it like that, but yea, it reminds me of Dorothy Parker in her later years, as ascerbic and cynical as she was about love and romance she was stuck with a bottle of gin and a one bedroom at the Algonquin Hotel. And I believe she wanted a man too, don't know about children but... You know its like if a woman marries and has kids she's allowed to get fat and old; society looks upon her with approval because she has fulfilled her role, now she can be comfortable occupying her time with grandkids etc. She may also have her aging husband around to keep her company. Its the family that tends to validate a woman's life. But you know I remember my grandmother being pissed if she had to watch over me. She was like "hey, I didn't raise any of my children why the hell do I have to watch this one?" But then she would grab me and shlepp all over town with me telling ridiculous stories and 'blue' jokes. I mean the woman was completely inappropriate. Quote: I never cared much for what the top of the ladder alone would look like- in fact I still don't know if I truly do or perhaps I'm too young to decide- but she was the first one to make me stop and consider it for once. You know it? Yea I think it is definitely age. I have a friend who is a successful artist in her early 40's. She was married and divorced with no children, travels around the world having great adventures and one would think that this would fulfill her, but guess what? All she has spoken about since I met her seven months ago is wanting a baby, she looks for love under every goddamn rock and is determined that this is what she wants. Its the old age factor staring her in the face and she cannot handle it anymore. Now if she were a crazed artist, an eccentric, she might not be bothered about it all but just descend further into her creativity and make that her 'child'. As far as women artists are concerned I prefer the way Anais Nin handled the situation. She had two husbands, one on the east coast and one on the west (they didn't know poor dears). She immersed herself into her work, her friends, discovering and nurturing young artists. She made every facet of her life a creative joy, an adventure for adults only (she never had any kids), and then one day she had the good fortune of passing away with one of her husbands at her side. I guess I want a mate more than I want children. I love children and would want my own I guess but...It seems complicated. I am very good at being alone but perhaps that's because its by choice, not because i am no longer attractive enough to find a mate. Oh god all this is beginning to depress me...but in an interesting way, I mean its forcing me to reflect on a subject I normally do not think too much about. You know this evening as I returned home on the subway an older woman (50's) began taliking to me. She just started going on about young women today and how utterly stupid they are. She was speaking of the fact that they are all 'followers', not a 'leader' among them and how they find stupid men to mate with and then complain about it. She then said to me as her stop approached how 'some men think that the piece of matrimonial paper means they own you as property,' Its a partnership she said, we are not their property and some days the partnership is 60-40, sometimes 90-10, and sometimes 0. Strange huh? DUDE! WHAT'S HAPPENING? Why is everyone speaking to me of marriage and getting old alone? (begins to shudder) I'm frightened! I hope I am old on my property in Belize walking among Bourganville's and lavender, sitting in my hammock, picking herbs from my garden and fruit from my trees, listening to music completely content whether there is anyone around or not. Hell I don't even know if I am the marrying type! Never really been able to picture it for myself, I mean there is no 'image' of how it would be. The closest I came was living with my ex-fiance...and geez was I bored, but that also had to do with the type of man he was. He was the sit at the breakfast table reading the newspaper type, give a peck on the cheek and off to work he went. I was just glad he would be gone for a few hours so I could 'be myself'. It's no mystery why it didn't work.
*Gendy* Why aren't there any rights of passage stories for girls? You know there is The Little Prince, and The Alchemy (god that book made me want to barf!!!) and they are all for men. In the alchemy the boy goes out to find his 'personal legend' and he meets Fatima right, well as he goes out to fulfill his 'personal legend' and all Fatima gets to do is sit around at home waiting. I was like, 'well what about her? What about her personal legend? Check out this passage in The Alchemy: This is what the Alchemist tells the boy when the kid decides he doesn't want to leave Fatima to pursue his 'legend': "You must understand that love never keeps a man from pursuing his Personal Legend." Here is Fatima's fate: She explains: "I'm a woman of the desert but above all I am a woman" Fine great, I have no problem with that. Then when the boy leaves her there is this nonsense: "Fatima went back to her tent...she went out to do the chores she had done for years. But everything changed. The boy was no longer at the oasis, and the oasis would never again have the same meaning it had had only yesterday." Okay she misses him I have no problem with this but then: "From that day on, the oasis would be an empty place for her." Why? Why empty? She wasn't empty before! Then this bombshell: "She would look [at the desert] to it every day, and would try to guess which star the boy was following in search of his treasure. She would have to send her kisses on the wind, hoping that the wind would touch the boy's face, and would tell him that she was alive. That she was waiting for him, a woman awaiting a courageous man in search of his treasure." See what I mean? The copyright for this book is 1993!! ATTENTION ALL WOMEN! We must begin to write new myths, create a new template for women, especially young girls, less we remain lost and confused with all these strange opposing messages. Is it any wonder that modern women are crazed and neurotic? Fuck I may actually have to do this myself. You know I mentioned to someone a year ago about the need for this (the girls version of The Little Prince) but I didn't want to attempt it myself because this kind of storytelling is so deceptively simple that one can easily fuck it up. I mean its not my 'genre', the type of work that is supposed to leave subliminal messages about how to traverse through life and avoid the snags and come through the other side whole and triumphant as one discovers what is really important in life. For men these messages are simple...even in the little prince the boy left his 'little rose' to pursue his journey of learning and then returned to her because she only had 'three thorns to protect her from all the world'. See what I mean? The same type of story for women would become EXTREMELY complex because our world and choices and different stages of being are much more intricate and varied. There is sexuality to cover, how to navigate ones personal needs against societies demands, how to deal with other women, how to age gracefully, how to discover if one wants children or not, how to reconcile oneself with the loss of youth and beauty, how to choose the right man,love and romance, marriage vs. being alone, purberty, the monthly menace, how to be a mother or choose not to have, how to find ones creativity, work, balance, fucking menopause etc., etc, etc. Daunting isn't it?
LucySnow: Not really. Look, we're a tangled ball of noise and complexity, some more than others, but so are men. Its called human bagagge. Do you realize you're doing the same thing I can't stand? Focusing so much on her and making it pathological- remember what I said? Its also easily found in Romantic sagas where the focus is primarily shifted towards the female role- as if divergence from her experience would leave the whole film as drab as the other characters- gend. The problem lies in subjectivity and believing a piece of work would be drab without the complexity of female drama. Play up her heartache and uncertainties, play up the sobbing and throwing of herself to and fro lover to lover- never mind the same human drama happening inside the man. On him its just...boring. Madamme Bovary was just as pathetic as Raskolnikov, you know. Look at this: .....You see how the focus is shifted on her experience? The idea is that one can only be lead to pathos, feel the story, understand it and fucking buy it if the focus is on the miseries, joys and betrayels she experiences. Play up Lady Shallot bitching about shadows and how sick she is of them for a couple of chapters and all Lancelot has to do is show up and just be. I know I know- a free spirit now will be a bountiful one later, just as free but LUCY!! have you any idea how jealous I'd be of the very concept of youth years from now ? Don't kid yourself, at least I won't. Your grandmother is different because in her youth she did not care for her beauty or resilence and so the pattern continued and fortified her indifference to being a wrinkled old hag in later years when she actually was one. But what of those that actually do care for them, even if as only an afterthought? Think on it LUCY! Think how you'd feel at your first wrinkle- puts a pit in my stomach just thinking about when I'll be getting mine. 30 looms closer and closer..........eek. This is why I say Taylor and Hepburn are a curse on the world- you get to see what is coming and nothing can stave it off if you die naturally, of old age. Akin to the curse of humanity being its intellect's grasp on its own mortality. Probably. I'm digging this Anais Nain chick, even though I doubt I'd have two husbands the way she did. I'm one for commitment, even if I have trouble with seeing people as objects or possessions. As for children, yes I would like one eventually. He'd be my little treasure box to stuff with all the beauties and curiosities I've spent a whole lifetime in digging up. But as for other people's children....burn the little maggots. Every last fucking one of them. Your fiance was a woman, lass. Check out what Freddy had to say about what these kind of people (in his case, women) do after the consquest is over: "Now she loves him and looks ahead with quiet confidence- like a cow. Alas, what bewitched him was precisely that she seemed utterly changeable and unfathomable. Of steady weather he found too much in himself. Wouldn't she do well to simulate her old character? To simulate a lack of love?" And so your little finance, once he had you, became a cow. I don't think I'm the marrying type either.
*Gendy* QuotePlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!o you realize you're doing the same thing I can't stand? Focusing so much on her and making it pathological- remember what I said? Nej! I am not making anything pathological! I am saying that writing a rite of passage script a la Alchemy or Little Prince is DAUNTING!! Why? Because of the MANY rites of passage a woman takes, because there are so many changing hurdles. For men the 'theme' is the same and quite simple. Men are in no way as complex as women. Quote:Its also easily found in Romantic sagas where the focus is primarily shifted towards the female role- as if divergence from her experience would leave the whole film as drab as the other characters- What is wrong with focusing on the female perspective or experience? Women are more interesting...espcially in the 'love saga'. Quote:.....You see how the focus is shifted on her experience? The idea is that one can only be lead to pathos, feel the story, understand it and fucking buy it if the focus is on the miseries, joys and betrayels she experiences. NO Way! The Alchemist is about the boy pure and simple. Fatima arrives late on the scene and what I posted is as much as we know about her; Basically she waits with the other women while the men go out and find their 'personal legend'; she plays no role whatsoever. My point is that there are no stories written as guidance for women seeking their 'personal legend' as there are for men. I dare you to think of any. Everything you could come up with would not be outside 'Sleeping Beauty' and 'Snow White'! Quote:But what of those that actually do care for them, even if as only an afterthought? It means one must reconcile themselves to the notion of change despite the American focus on perpetual youth. I find all this to be a mostly an American phenomenon. Quote:This is why I say Taylor and Hepburn are a curse on the world- you get to see what is coming and nothing can stave it off if you die naturally, of old age. Akin to the curse of humanity being its intellect's grasp on its own mortality. Actually I thought Hepburn looked great during her later years, there was a grace about her. Taylor just fell apart but look at all that drinking and changing of husbands...would tire any broad. But you know the women in my family had already lost use of their uterus before wrinkles and physical degeneration set it...its the melanin in our blood working in our favor as opposed to the fair skin maidens who's bodies begin to dwindle many years before their death (lucky we are!). My mother is 'elderly' and her skin is flawless, she is corpulent but still quite feminine and attractive. The beauty of a Tina Turner's and Lena Horne do not fade away so easily. Many of these issues, what I consider to be feminist issues (like the feminity thread) don't hold any water in my community which is West Indian...these aren't our issues. Aging for us isn't something feared, the men don't care, the women remain fertile longer and hold the facade of youth to a greater degree, its not expected for women to be skinny like a teenage boy, etc. I feel sorry for White Western women, I really do, I mean look at what happened to poor Brigit Bardot...now.that.is.degeneration! QuotePlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!robably. I'm digging this Anais Nain chick, even though I doubt I'd have two husbands the way she did. I'm one for commitment, even if I have trouble with seeing people as objects or possessions. Read her diaries. A Women Speaks is also a great wonderful read; a non-fiction question-answer about her life and art. Quote:Your fiance was a woman, lass. (smiles) Pretty too! Quote:"Now she loves him and looks ahead with quiet confidence- like a cow. Alas, what bewitched him was precisely that she seemed utterly changeable and unfathomable. Of steady weather he found too much in himself. Wouldn't she do well to simulate her old character? To simulate a lack of love?" And so your little finance, once he had you, became a cow. I don't think I'm the marrying type either. Freddy was frigid and didn't know diddly about women, nuff said. No, he was a sort of a 'cow' when I met him, but because he was so different from me and so unlike any other man I usually went for I gave it a whirl. We met in Copenhagen and he is the typical conservative Dane. His attraction to me had everything to do with my wild nature. He didn't try to change me only contain (far worse!). I took him outside his milieu, outside Denmark and dragged him around with me in my travels but he couldn't 'cope' with the insanity of it all. He also couldn't stand the people around me eg. bohemians, artists, fringe people, the general wierdo's I love so dearly. My sweet-pea was very, very conventional and threatened by anything that wasn't. But, he has since changed! We are still very close friends and although he has settled back into his pedestrian life he now adds 'color' to it and has become more 'open'. What I need is a man who understands my lifestyle. Gendy you should know better than to listen to a man like Freddy!
LucySnow: I know exactly what you were saying, cheri, but THIS is why I don't agree with you: Finis. We're both human. Only a question of balance. Interesting is a neutral term. "Melodramatic" and "pathetic" are the lucrative ones. The latter two is the honey pot with a bunch of fat fingers rolling around in it trying to make a fortune with it. That's what's wrong with focusing on the female perspective, Oh my sister. Allright, you've proven me wrong. (hits you in the forehad) Kidding. My mistake- but as for there being no stories of women seeking a personal legend I can think of maybe one. Kleist's "The Marquise of O-". The man is terribly long winded but tells a good story- and the legend here is one of brute will in the face of adversity. Its fucked up though since it finshes off with the same mushy bullshit- marriage and lovedy dove romance. Would it count? YES! Pasty white chicks have nothing on Gendanken. However, I don't lie to myself- I fear aging like the plauge. As for the feminists- always remember what I said happens to them when a man finally kisses that hand of theirs. Beauty and knowledge of it is not a feminist issue in my book- bitching about the 'patriarchy' like a mujahadeen is. AGGH! But Lucy- be real with yourself. Look how easy it is to say what you just said simply becuase you're not there yet. And you're wrong about it being an American phenomenon. Yours truly is not American and neither has she been hoodwinked by American idealism. Yours truly is just.A. Woman.
*Gendy* Venting: THIS DAY SUCKED!!! ...Okay, Quote:We're both human. Only a question of balance. I can agree with this but I don't believe men and women are the same really. Maybe its sociological, maybe biology, probably both but I think our journey through life is different, we all feel pain, bliss, have needs but our hurdles and myths are different. Why do you disagree anyway? Quote:Interesting is a neutral term. "Melodramatic" and "pathetic" are the lucrative ones. Meladramatic yes but pathetic how? Quote: The latter two is the honey pot with a bunch of fat fingers rolling around in it trying to make a fortune with it. That's what's wrong with focusing on the female perspective, Oh my sister. Okay what would you like to see change? For example let's take the arts, cinema specifically, how would you rearrange the love story, or any story...(smiles) We could start with Scarlett. Quote:Kleist's "The Marquise of O-". The man is terribly long winded but tells a good story- and the legend here is one of brute will in the face of adversity. Its fucked up though since it finshes off with the same mushy bullshit- marriage and lovedy dove romance. Would it count? Damn woman you're good! Jesus its been YEARS since I have heard anyone mention Von Kleist's name. I have only read The Betrothal of Santo Domingo and Penthesilia; what's he gist of Marquis of O? I mean why would you consider it a good example of a woman following her personal legend in literature? ...But you see who the hell reads someone like Kleist? Certainly not most women. Its all the pedestrian junk novels that most imbibe in. Like The Alchemist! You have no idea how many people raved about that insipid book, it was like the Barbara Cartland of so called 'spiritual' novels like the Celestine Prophesy. And talk about romance! Every other page mentioned 'the soul of the world', women sending kisses through the wind, god sending omens as a guide to ones Personal Legend and all sorts of crapiolio. Geez, it was an old refined Danish man who turned me on to Kleist. I must re-read. Quote:Beauty and knowledge of it is not a feminist issue in my book- bitching about the 'patriarchy' like a mujahadeen is. Cannot argue with you there. Quote:AGGH! But Lucy- be real with yourself. Look how easy it is to say what you just said simply becuase you're not there yet. And you're wrong about it being an American phenomenon. Yours truly is not American and neither has she been hoodwinked by American idealism. Yours truly is just.A. Woman. Well its difficult for me to look in the mirror and imagine wrinkles and whatnot. I guess aging will definitely be a drag if I don't have a lover or partner and have a hankering for one. I mean at some point it must be a blessing not to have to worry about how one looks right? There is an old Dutch woman living in Eureka Springs, Arkansas who only saunters into town when she is all dolled up in the most outrages get-up. She wears these glorious hats, strange gaudy jewelry, old fashioned dresses in colors way too loud, the make-up is comical...but guess what? She has become a legend in this quirky little town, if she deigns to stop and give audience to someone they consider it a privilege. I spoke with her only once and she is not crazy, eccentric yes, quite refined and dignified...hell the woman is supremely civilized. I always thought that this was her revenge of losing her youth and beauty. It was as if she decided that if she cannot be a goddess she will at least represent a ravaged jewel of some victorian lady. Quite extraordinary really. You see I would like to become something like that, an iconoclast of elderly ladies. I am laughing at myself now because I probably won't have the chutzpah. I don't think she was revolting against old age simply redefining it for herself and others. You know who I love? Shelley Winters. Though a contemporary of Monroe, she broke out of that bomb shell trap early and was able to constantly reinvent herself as she became a 'grandmother'. That's one ballsy loud-mouth broad I wouldn't mind meeting. She 'seems' so comfortable with her age and loss of external beauty. About the American thing: Don't you believe though that in other cultures (even European) that aging among women is seen not as an embarrasment but a natural process, wrinkles, hip-spread and all? In more traditional cultures a woman isn't expected to defy her age. PS: You know what maybe aging will be traumatic. Last week I went in for a trim and this idiot butchered my hair to shoulder length. Will take a full year to grow it back. I was devastated, inconsolable. I mean I cried tears I never would have for the loss of a relationship. It was as if someone 'stole' a part of my beauty. Yea, yea I know it will grow back, but in the meantime I have to make peace with this shoulder-length crop and it is difficult. I mourn the hair every time I look in the mirror. Its a stupid little thing I know, and if you asked me a week prior if I would have reacted this way under the circumstance I would have said no. But the proof is in the reaction...my vanity was bruised!
Thanks Swedishfish. I will probably have to since I see the need for it and most female writers I know are scared off by the idea. Erica Jong did something along the lines in Sappho's Leap, but it was really a book for women who are about to enter menopause. I thought the ending was a bit trite and it really wasn't a 'rite of passage' story for young women which is what's needed. Its like we are running around without road maps. Gendy is bold enough to bring up the subject of aging but it is rarely spoken of among the women I know and older women don't always share their knowledge. You have no idea how freaked out I was when an older woman told me that the vagina hair would grey. GREY!! I mean I never considered it, I had no idea! We don't discuss sexuality enough, we don't tell the truth about 'love' and relationships, we don't talk about menopause and a whole slew of issues. But most of all we don't speak of young women building their 'personal legend' to steal the terminology. Its as if there are only hero stories and women sit back and watch. I mean I really admired Clive Barker for using a female character as the heroine who ventures into his hellish worlds. But where are the western women writing 'horror'? It took a man to write Carrie. We never consider that women too enter the 'underworld' and must also combat 'demons'. Jesus H. Christ I sound like Virginia Woolf in A Room Of Ones Own.
all my favorite authors are male and my favorite books are written by men. there is a dearth. but it's the same problem as in everything. when i was in the bookstore today i picked up a small book called something along the lines of when i was a girl, with short pieces by famous women recounting childhood memories and coming of age stories. i almost wanted to buy it to save for when i have a daughter, as far away as that may be, because it seemed a rare find. there aren't enough books by women for girls, passing along worldly wisdom like that one was trying to do. if you write that book there will be more for me to give my future daughter.
SwedishFish: ...and bore the poor thing to death with dribble from women that never take up the pen unless asked to- and its all neatly stuffed in short pieces.......... in small books............ for small minds. Don't let that mind be yours or your ~daughter's~. That book you speak of sounds like shallow courtesy calls. Read her something else please. LucySnow: Hmm. Why? Gendy's all ears. Eyes. Whatever. Because I've met many, oh so many many many many men more of a woman than I am that's why. You're making the same mistake most moderns do. "Pathetic" is a word rooted in pathos, meaning expressing of emotion or passion, "....affecting or moving the tender emotions....full of pathos" Its only in the past two centuries or so that the word 'pathetic' has been corrupted into something vile or annoying. Screw Scarlett- ever seen "Girl Interrupted"? A story with folks just as 'fucked' as Jolie. In other words 'real'. I'd like to see a storyline depicting how people really are- casual and caring, shallow and deep, loving and hateful, cold one day warm the next, domineering yet submissive, distant yet close and both hungry for raw, animal sex regardless of gender. We're all walking contradictions so its only a question of balance. You're waayy too subjective in your studies, Lucy. The Marquise of O- a semi short story about a countess who is rescued by a Russian general from a bunch of thugs about to fuck her brains out. Or it was an Austrian soldier, its been a while. Anyway, some months later she finds out she's preggo. Impossible! She's a virgin and she was rescued from the gang rape, so she turns to her family to beg their forgiveness and they turn their back on her. And so, she steels her resolve, moves out of their home and focuses all her might on her child, her new life, and a fullblown mission to find out who the father is...........yadda yaaa.....badda bing....and she triumphs in the end by finding out who the father is and making him pay for his transgressions. He knocked her up and he payed for it dearly. Strong will- a personal legend. Well keep laughing because genanken has so much chutzpah she'll be the only grandmother with all her hair and still drinking vodka at 90. Shit thou not. And she'll be having glorious sex with no Astroglide and KY at 100. Stay tuned. If you're talking some pueblo down in Mexico, or some muddy huts in Benin or the Congo, maybe. They're not expected to do anything. But you're right- aging is seen as natural and as tolerable as the seasons. HOWEVER! If you really think on it- youth and vigor are praised in any culture. Its the premise for festivals and the thinking is in the the makeup and ribbons they decorate themselves in. Even here no one is expected to do anything once you age, you have all the freedom in the world to sag and keep sagging. You are intimidated into it....and I msyelf am a victim to some extent. Its always an American that makes things an obsession and then unconsiouclsy teaches the rest of the world its idealism and sickness. I say unconsciosuly because I can't blame the teacher for their student's stupidity in mimicking everything they look up to. Globalism has made it that much simpler for other countries- Japan, China, India, any other country with loud neon CocaCola signs- made it that much simpler for these countries to sign up as pupils and walk, talk, and think like those they feel are superiour no matter how ignorant or vile. Example: India's Bollywood. AHA! See? What'd I tell you? We can talk and talk and talk but all it took was to have someone chop your locks off and here we are seeing that you too are just as female as I am. Look how it gets to you. Now imagine waking up tomorrow with no eyebrows. Or looking like Minnie Me.
*Gendy* Apologies for the neglect. But geez I have been surfing around and it is becoming bloody boring. See how the scent of spring has everyone running to tip toe through the tulips. I remember Glenn Gould saying in an interview that he loved the north precisely because of its isolation, silence and introspection. He believed it facilitated a higher state of intellectual consciousness and creativity. Anyway... Quote: See? What'd I tell you? We can talk and talk and talk but all it took was to have someone chop your locks off and here we are seeing that you too are just as female as I am. Look how it gets to you. Now imagine waking up tomorrow with no eyebrows. Or looking like Minnie Me. Well yea, a woman's vanity is no joking matter...and the locks! Can you imagine what it must be like for a woman to undergo manestectomy? A plane Jane may be envious but in many respects she is allowed to 'forget' herself. But you know aging may not be a matter of waking up tomorrow and discovering the package has fallen apart, aging happens slowly over time so we can get used to the changes. Most women I believe are by then busy worrying about children (working mom etc.) to pay too much attention to what has been altered. So who would suffer? Its the woman who's beauty overshadows every other aspect of her personality or personal value. She may be intelligent but from the time she was a toddler all focused on her beauty. She attracts female friends who adore, envy or hate her for it, men hover because of it. You're either dismissed as the mindless 'purty thing' or a vain bitch. The trap is this, as everyone focuses on the visual one can easily neglect other aspects of their being; then when it is lost or wanes or marred the core is empty of vitality because it neglected intelligence, creativity, a sense of being divorced from the physical. Quote:HOWEVER! If you really think on it- youth and vigor are praised in any culture. Its the premise for festivals and the thinking is in the the makeup and ribbons they decorate themselves in. Even here no one is expected to do anything once you age, you have all the freedom in the world to sag and keep sagging. You are intimidated into it....and I msyelf am a victim to some extent. How are you a victim? (smiles) Sorry Gendy but I have difficulties imagining you a victim of anything. The strength you exude leaves the impression you are impervious. I think youth should be honored, its a time of strength, vigor; we are fecundated with energy and possibility. But look how it is wasted!!!! Most are so pathetically dim-witted that they don't even know how to use those years. I have one friend who is so in-tune with the opportunities of these years that she consciously takes full advantage of it. She loves her youth but despises youth culture; she believes the marrow of life should be sucked NOW! But I worry about her a little, I mean this too shall pass (sorry for the cliches) and what is finally important isn't really the experience but the wisdom drawn from them; though I will admit there are many who never attain even a sliver of wisdom. Quote; Its always an American that makes things an obsession and then unconsiouclsy teaches the rest of the world its idealism and sickness. I say unconsciosuly because I can't blame the teacher for their student's stupidity in mimicking everything they look up to. Globalism has made it that much simpler for other countries- Japan, China, India, any other country with loud neon CocaCola signs-made it that much simpler for these countries to sign up as pupils and walk, talk, and think like those they feel are superiour no matter how ignorant or vile. "I can't blame the teacher for their students stupidity". I couldn't agree with you more. I have been listening to some of the commentary over the past few days over Haiti, and of course the entire history of exploitation and manipulation is regurgitated etc. But hell that doesn't excuse following any joe blow criminal with a gun in his hand. Did you see what they did to their own national museum? These are their own artists, their own art work they are destroying! It filled me with bile to watch them. Like apes rummaging through a jewelry box. IDIOTS!! That isn't protest its self-hate! It becomes very strange to see how people around the world thirst for American culture, its shallowness and cheapness. They are even willing to financially enslave themselves and become American satellites just to benefit from fools gold. They don't say "we would like Western health care standards" or stable infrastructure, they say "Oh we love Madonna", "I drink coca cola"; its the sneakers, fast food and the WORST the West has to offer. They will suffer from it too, though many are beginning to wise up. At this point I love it when I come across an Asian who raises their nose and lowers their eyes at the value of the West; these are the few who value their own culture above any stupid shiney object from outside. Quote:Well keep laughing because genanken has so much chutzpah she'll be the only grandmother with all her hair and still drinking vodka at 90. Shit thou not. And she'll be having glorious sex with no Astroglide and KY at 100. Stay tuned. Bless you! Quote:...she triumphs in the end by finding out who the father is and making him pay for his transgressions. He knocked her up and he payed for it dearly. Strong will- a personal legend. I must read it then. Actually from what I remember Kleist didn't portray too many wilting flowers as heroines...he acknowledges female strength. Quote:Screw Scarlett- ever seen "Girl Interrupted"? A story with folks just as 'fucked' as Jolie. In other words 'real'. I disliked "Girl Interrupted" mosty because it wasn't true to the book and because it didn't properly portray the Borderline...but...I did love Jolie's character as it was more developed than the rest. Quote: I'd like to see a storyline depicting how people really are- casual and caring, shallow and deep, loving and hateful, cold one day warm the next, domineering yet submissive, distant yet close and both hungry for raw, animal sex regardless of gender. Yes and there isn't very much of this even in what we call 'literature'. The multi-layered character. I watched James Spader's character on The Practise and decided that it must be the best on television precisely because he is so complex: Hypersexual, needy, criminal, caring, powerful, self-contained, cynical, honorable, dishonorable, sexy, just. Quote: We're all walking contradictions so its only a question of balance. You're waayy too subjective in your studies, Lucy. Maybe but I too harbour a bundle of contradictions. In what way do you sense a lack of objectivity? Quote: Because I've met many, oh so many many many many men more of a woman than I am that's why. Its bloody annoying! It makes me want to take their balls, dry them out and hang them like a garlic string in an Italian market. Quote:Why? Gendy's all ears. Eyes. Whatever Its people as always. I had a confrontation with a bleeding heart liberal who cries at the drop of a hat over any injustice and hungry babies in Africa. She believes her romanticism and gaping wounds makes her the most 'human' and shows her 'humanity'. She cannot be objective for shit. She is also the kind of person who wants to prove herself the 'best' of friends, the most loyal and caring...meanwhile she is a passive-aggressive bitch seething with resentments. We had a phone conversation where I mentioned that while observing a young homeless woman the other night I realized she was in this situation because she couldn't be 'utilized'. Most, if not all, human relationships and survival are based on utility. For example if I walk into a room and the first person I talk with hasn't any of the qualities I find interesting, I will look for someone whose conversation stimulates. The qualities we 'love' in the other are qualities we find personally useful. She found all this odious. She began to go on about primitive societies etc., and I'm like primitive societies would allow a disabled baby to die becasue it wouldn't have any 'use' and would only drain the resources of the community. The next morning she calls me from work to accuse me of 'coldness' , describing people like 'machines'. Can you believe it? Me of all people. She then said I say the word 'romantic' as if it were a disease. She then sent me a long vituperative email filled with expletives. I just wrote her back and said "Your tears cheapens genuine emotions because they mask hostility and aggression." All this from a woman who two days prior was saying how I could count on her like a 'sister-friend'. For her there is no such thing as an objective conversation so she took my observations as a personal attack. I have no idea what she was reacting too, but what can one expect from a walking emotional cauldron of bullshit with as much use as a harlequin. She wouldn't know real passion, emotion or romance if I stapled it to all her excess body fat!
tahnks for mentioning it.i saw it last night. think its probably the best movie made on the issue. like what happens to the female, is probably heart rendering. how about "to kill a mocking bird". if u havent seen it make sure you do. it sequally amazing Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Android: To-u-che. I refuse, simply refuse to believe that this Android was Dearprudence once. But all that talk won't stop a girl from smothering the sunblock on. Words won't erase wrinkles then. LucySnow: Aha- one of those New Age cows you're likely to find in a health food store buying soybeans despite being twice the weight you are? Know them. They're only there because they are posing and looking for company. Has she registered for women's studies at the local university yet? Has she ~experimented~ with lesbianism? Does she wear hemp clothing? Have braids in her hair? I remember sneering at how the privileged romanticize culture and I'm picturing this friend of yours bawling over a little black girl getting braids put in. Shiniqua is getting dreadlocks! How cultural, how beayoootiful, how different. Diversity rocks man! Whatever. You can tell I'm in a foul mood today. And its raining. Indeed. Rip them in half and stirfry their insides....... In your insistence that women are way more complex. That's how. Yes! That's why I brought her up- remember "Ninotcka"? In that Garbo reminded me of me? Throw Jolie into the brew. I don't normally identify myself in terms of anything other than My Self, but seeing characters already cut out like that is neato. Bitch up and hangs herself becuase she's too pussy to handle pain and Jolie only waltzes over to the hanging corpse to pick out its pockets. MADNESS! Don't bother. His long wind can singe eyebrows. Or prostitution of the mind, soul, and body for idealism. Like a one legged whore trying to sell herself for cheap pearls she thinks will make her beautiful. Concerningtrend seen worlwide of people sacrificing traditions for the comforts the west offers: I have never, ever ever in my life seen anything as bizarre as a burqua with Nikes on. Or African bushmen in sunglasses. Zoe tribesmen swigging a Budweiser. Killing the things that they have......reminds me of the Roman soldier who killed off Archimedes in his vulgar, proleish impatience. Nah, I'm a pussy. Blasphemies, Lucy, blasphemies! I meant I'm a victim to the intimidation of realizing that aging is not that glamorous. I don't even have to *hear* the hype- just look at Miss Taylor. That's what bites- youth has a flare for stupidity because it is quixotic and careless and so easily wasted in its emotions. Blind thrill. Its said how many times now that it believes its own immortality? It wakes up in the morning and flings itself into the day- all the 'boys' I know don't plan anything out. They are risk takers! entrepeneurs! rebels and renegades! But all they do is only done for the sake of it with no deeply held convictions to base their 'thrill seeking' on. I have a theory on goals vs. purposes I may start a thread on soon. They're, in their youth, so full of goals but no purpose. This makes two threads so far, the other one being about power. Its running buckets today so maybe I will. (and there are no poodles around...*grin* yay) Translation: If only my Wandering wonder were here......*le sigh* Ha! Anyway, about the ambiance true enough. Nietzche could not stomach the stuffy "Northerns" and praised places like Genoa and Provence, Florence and Paris.......all the places with sun and dry air.
*Gendy* Quote:But all that talk won't stop a girl from smothering the sunblock on. Words won't erase wrinkles then. Yup, there's no way I would willingly allow the chernobyl in the sky to dry me into a raisin! As a spa owner once said "Its all in the maintenance darling". Quote:Has she registered for women's studies at the local university yet? Has she ~experimented~ with lesbianism? Does she wear hemp clothing? Have braids in her hair? I remember sneering at how the privileged romanticize culture and I'm picturing this friend of yours bawling over a little black girl getting braids put in. Shiniqua is getting dreadlocks! How cultural, how beayoootiful, how different. Diversity rocks man! Actually she had told me once that she wished she had dread-locks. When I pointed out that she could have them anyway her reply was "No. I only like dread-locks with black hair". I didn't want to get into the implications of that statement so I let it die. The woman is a left of the left activist, feminist, the world pain is my pain sought of gal. She thinks African-americans are victims of the 'system' and need 'help', that they are somehow 'nicer' or less 'evil' than their 'white-oppressors'. She is almost as ideologically annoying as Deepak Chopra; though she did have some many wonderful qualities when mindless emotionalism isn't wigging her out of reality. Quote:In your insistence that women are way more complex. That's how. Yea I do think this. I find men much more...reasonable and easier to relate with than many (but not all) women. Maybe the schizophrenia in women is just more apparent. I don't know I just find women more neurotic. Men are neurotic too to some extent but its so much more...streamlined. Why do you think literature tends to highlight the neurotic woman? Like Blanche Dubois for example, there could never be a male version of Blanche. Hmmm...Willie Loman? Maybe? Nah. I will observe from a different angle, maybe I'm simply filtering information to suit my perspective (it happens). Quote:I have never, ever ever in my life seen anything as bizarre as a burqua with Nikes on. Or African bushmen in sunglasses.Zoe tribesmen swigging a Budweiser. (smiles) I know it well. In Phnom Penh they have a new two floor shopping mall (escalators and all). They sell 50 Cent CD's for two dollars (I wonder if he knows about this?), have a wannabe McDonalds selling burgers & fries, Western perfume and makeup, etc, and all the middle-class young are crawling all over the place just as they would in the States. Meanwhile right outside there are children sleeping in the street, seven year olds walking around selling newspapers and jasmine flowers in French bars and restaurants at midnight, rubbing their eyes from tire because they cannot go home until every last piece is sold. No one can drink the water in the country, AIDS is silently infecting huge populations...yet there is money for a fucking mall!!!! And if that weren't completely absurd (especially when 95% or more of the population cannot even afford to enter the mall) all one has to do is walk into an outdoor market and find the FINEST SILK one could place their grubby fingers on selling FOR A TUPPENCE! (You know foreigners have a field day honey!) One can go to a store and show a craftsman a shoe and he will make one for you PERFECTLY!! So why are they not globally exporting? Why are those idiots in the mall shelling out a higher price for a stupid polyester 'western style' skirt or a 'western-ho-style' pair of shoes when the most beautiful fabric in the world is being gobbled-up by tourists and smart business people? They simply do not benefit from the transaction. Let them drink the coca cola if they want to I prefer to buy fresh coconut water for a quarter from the lady in the street. Globalism rips everyone off. Oh my god and did I mention the gemstones, the detailed engraved gold & silver work? Jade even the Chinese drool over? Girl don't even get me started! Quote:I meant I'm a victim to the intimidation of realizing that aging is not that glamorous. I don't even have to *hear* the hype- just look at Miss Taylor. Maybe not but Diane Von Furstenburg kicks ass at 50! That's how I would like to age...with a dash of elegance. But when everything begins saggin and draggin I want to be the ole witch on the block swinging in her hammock...if I can get into one without breaking a hip. Quote:I have a theory on goals vs. purposes I may start a thread on soon. They're, in their youth, so full of goals but no purpose. This makes two threads so far, the other one being about power. Its running buckets today so maybe I will. (and there are no poodles around...*grin* yay) No its not two threads. Youth will naturally come into the debate. Fucking good topic if you don't mind me saying. Actually it would make a good class in high schools. Can you imagine? Giving American youth something to think about as opposed to the reguritating bullshit expected of them. Quote:Translation: If only my Wandering wonder were here......*le sigh* Ha! Exactly! Jesus even android left the party to re-join the group! Wanderer certainly knows how to throw heat into a thread. Quote: Anyway, about the ambiance true enough. Nietzche could not stomach the stuffy "Northerns" and praised places like Genoa and Provence, Florence and Paris.......all the places with sun and dry air. Speaking of the femininity thread war of words against wandaring challenges: "He sinks, he falls, he's done"-says who? The truth is he climbs down to you. His over-bliss became too stark His over-light pursues your dark. Will they ever learn? *Android* Bardot? Darling the woman is completely shrivelled! Evidently she didn't use any Bain de Soliel for that Saint Tropez tan.
*Android* Hi bubbie! Send me an email if you have the time. Quote:But Lu -- look at how she extends herself to the welfare of the animal world. And who is she waging their fight against? Corporations and the fur industry and the cosmic frankensteins... why -- she's got my respect, darling. So I ask, why did she abandon that fabulous Harley-Davidson and knee-high boots with mini skirt and turn her gaze upon opened fields and home-grown vegetables? She listened to herself. She gave up the goddess routine because she couldn't pull it off any longer...she lacked the necessary equipment. As for her activist interests; she took that on when everyone abandoned her except the animals which gave her unconditional love when she needed it the most (she had become suicidal). She became a victim of her own hype. I don't think this all happened because she listened to herself I think it happened because she lost the talent that made her famous...being drop-dead-gorgeous. Quote: P.S.: incase you've been wondering: I'm mid-way. Just taking a break. Got a scare this aft: shin and tendon problems erupted during mid-jog. But I got this crazy natural product to soothe the muscles. Oh -- I'm dying to tell you what I've decided to do if I get the chance. Will let you know if it's a success. Kisses. Use very warm water and then cold water, massage. Stretch it out even if it hurts, take a day or two of rest and then remember to stretch for 15 minutes before jogging! I have had that before and it hurt to even stand up. God I hate anticipating 'secrets' tell all sunshine! Thinking of you. You know its funny that so many people thought you were female. I knew you were male from the very moment I read your first post. I am leaving soon you know, but will keep in touch unless you are busy traversing other 'worlds'. There isn't anything new or interesting going on with me, a little stress concerning other people. Chris is the same. He won't return to Thailand for treatment...evidently they won't take him back on his own terms. He says he will stop on his own and then return to the States...but I am not sure how he will go about doing this. Oh well, if he is still there when I arrive I will fill you in on the details.
