Against gays? Support gay marriage!

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by chunkylover58, Mar 17, 2004.

  1. okinrus Registered Senior Member

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    2,669
    I only have the KJV's New Testament, so I can rattle off the Old Testament quotes of fire and brimstone at you...

    Did Webster manage to add the definition 2 to the word marriage? I don't remember it being there the last time I quoted Webster on this issue.

    Main Entry: mar·riage
    Pronunciation: 'mer-ij, 'ma-rij
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
    1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b : the mutual relation of married persons : WEDLOCK c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage


    Constrast the two definitions http://face.net/Webster's_1828.html

    This raises an interesting point. If our interpretation of the constitution is based upon the words that have since changed in their meanings, should we change our interpretation of the constitution or change the constitution? What would happen if words such as freedom, rights, and equality were redefined? Of course there are changes such as defining native americans and blacks as human beings that are beneficial.
     
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  3. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, that raises some very interesting questions. I suppose that we should be thankful that there's not a single mention of marriage in the constitution. I'd also note that neither Webster nor Christianity has a monopoly on marriage, they didn't invent it, and believe it or not non-Christians and even atheists still marry. Should our government policy on marriage reflect that fact? Or should they let the religious right dictate their own views on marriage to be the policy for all?
     
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  5. rainbow__princess_4 The Ashtray Girl Registered Senior Member

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    1. Tax breaks only in a screwed up system, and you can have a party anyway
    2. You do if you're a proper Christian
    3. Sounds like you're not a Christian so therefore you can have kids whenever you like, its the Chrissy's who can't

    P.S.-i thought all that was obvious
     
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  7. rainbow__princess_4 The Ashtray Girl Registered Senior Member

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    Hey, um, I never quoted the bible anywhere... coz i don't have one to quote from... so I never presumed the mind of anyone or quoted the mind of anyone. I merely said the same as you that marriage is to avoid sin, and adding that if you're gay there's no point because you're sinning anyway, so what's the problem bitterchick? Seriously, can anyone see where this is from?
     
  8. Silverback Registered Senior Member

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    Hey, I have this wild idea about why it would be a good idea to let gay people get married.

    Because they want to and it's none of my damn business to dictate to them (or anyone) what to do or not to do with their lives!

    Just my two cents.

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  9. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

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    Yup it is..
    After a while you tend to find yourself stating the obvious pretty frequently 'round here. Particularly when talking to the god botherers.
    As silverback has so aptly demonstrated.

    Have fun.
    Dee Cee
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2004
  10. bitterchick Why must you taunt me so? Registered Senior Member

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    To borrow a phrase, Amen!

    As a lawyer I have another completely self-interested reason for supporting gay marriage -- more divorce clients!! Mo money, mo money...

    (The preceeding phrase contains sarcasm, which is not intended by the reader to be taken literally).
     
  11. bitterchick Why must you taunt me so? Registered Senior Member

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    53
    Does "All your base are belong to us" ring a bell?

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  12. okinrus Registered Senior Member

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    The problem is that goverment has to draw the line somewhere concerning marriage.
     
  13. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    Mystech, I think he has a point here. The gay people that I am good friends with have all admitted to being sexually abused as a kid. Granted, this is only 3 people and a small sample but it still leads to the obvious question. That doesn't mean that the question needs to be answered, or that the answer would matter anyhow. Even if it was decided that 'gayness' was due too a mental disorder, that wouldn't make it wrong.
     
  14. bitterchick Why must you taunt me so? Registered Senior Member

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    The government is the *last* entity that should have anything to do with marriage. Marriage is both a civil legal institution and in many cases, but not all, a religious rite. Who exactly gets married doesn't affect our foreign policy, economic policy, or military policy in any significant manner.
     
  15. 15ofthe19 35 year old virgin Registered Senior Member

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    1,588
    These darn gays are stealing our jobs, poisoning the minds of our children, and threatening our very way of life. They go door-to-door recruiting new members. They use their exceptional decorating abilities to lure us into their evil hideouts, and just when we feel comfortable with our heterosexuality, BAMM!, they spring their trap. First it starts by casually putting on some Striesand, and offering a glass of Pinot Grigio. The next thing you know your deep into a conversation about the best way to put a fabulous patina finish on your chandelier, how much is too much to pay for a Mapplethorpe, and the best places to stay in Key West. It's all happening so fast. And wont somebody please stop and think of the cattle? What about the cattle. All those leather pants aren't pleather dammit. They're real genuine cow.

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    Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!

    I'm so agitated. I'm going up to storm up to my craft room, calmly close the door, get out my pastels and a fresh canvas, and just mellow out to some Suzanne Vega.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2004
  16. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    10,943
    Screw it. Just scratch the institution of marriage altogether.
    This gets tiring to hear about. So...just leave off having government interfere with marriage anyway.

    Nothing in the Constitution says a word about marriage (although the thirteenth amendment has relevence)
     
  17. okinrus Registered Senior Member

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    I think I'd agree with you Xev but better to have 2% of the population screaming that their rights are being taken away than the other 98%. And who knows the backlash against homosexuals if this happened?
     
  18. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    A right? Marriage isn't a right.
    At least not according to the Constitution of the United States.

    Marriage is almost dead among my generation, I doubt they'd care a horrid deal.

    As for the heteros, who cares? White heterosexuals are pretty much conditioned to bend over whenever they're told that something they're doing is racist, just extend that guilt to heterosexuality.

    Black heterosexuals, who cares? Like they even vote.

    What's marriage good for anyway? Without legal marriage insurence policies will be forced to cover dependants irregardless of whether they are spouses. Feminists will love it, because marriage is a nasty patriarchial institution, men will love it because they can't be roped into marriage anymore, gays will love it, the only people who'll object are conservative religious morons and stupid whores who dream of wearing pretty dresses.

    Jesus freaks and whores....vs. pretty much everybody else. Bentham would say to go with "everyone else".
     
  19. okinrus Registered Senior Member

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    Married couples provide more to the economy, are happier and better workers than unmarried singles and couples. From this perspective, the goverment has every right to support marriage(giving economic benefits) as they do for taxing tobaco.
     
  20. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    So sinners in general shouldn't be allowed to marry in your opinion? Don't most flavors of Christianity believe in the original sin of Eve and Adam? Aren't we all guilty and born sinners? And for gods sake, if breaking a rule in Leviticus makes one a sinner, then you should hope that you don't eat shrimp. No sense letting sea-food lovers get married either, really, especially if they'll have it at the reception afterwards!

    But again all of that is sort of moot anyway, as when did Christianity get a monopoly on marriage? I don’t remember it ever being the Christian way or the highway in this country.
     
  21. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Jesus Christ you're a visionary! That's the good stuff right there, Silverback, but let's see if you can follow me as I take it a step farther. It's none of your (or straight people in general) business, yet still many people feel that they have the right to vote on it and deny it. Now if they're going to act like it's their problem, wouldn't it be quite fitting if someone were to genuinely make it their problem? I'm not advocating killing a conservative to celebrate every gay marriage in this nation, but it sure would be a satisfying form of poetic justice, wouldn't it?

    Sorry, I’m in a pissy mood today, I’ve got an ear-ache, heh.
     
  22. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, and between two consenting adults who love eachother and are committed to one another seems quite an appropriate place to draw the line to me. Anything less would simply be discriminatory and unjust. But if you insist on keeping marriage between only a man and a woman, why not outlaw interracial marriage again as well. After all we can't have everyone going around mixing the races up, then how would be know who to hate?!
     
  23. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    It's already been decided that it's not a mental disorder, however. And as for that absurd sexual abuse argument, that's never been popular among anyone who's done any legitimate research on the subject. I myself turned out gay, and didn't even realize that I had a penis until I was 13! (Well I didn't realize that there were other uses for it than peeing and getting caught painfully in my zipper).
     

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