How to cook a lobster?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by sargentlard, Mar 26, 2004.

  1. Fenris Wolf Banned Banned

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    You've obviously never had fresh marron straight from the river then, Dr Lou. Survival food indeed...
     
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  3. crazymikey Open-minded Scientist Registered Senior Member

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    There is a simple ethical solution to this issue: Don't eat Lobster; leave them be. We already have enough options, chicken, turkey, eggs, fish, vegeterian and good ole GM food. Why do we have to eat other animals? Would you conider it ethical, if something wanted to eat you.

    In fact should we even be eating chicken, turkey, and fish - do they not feel pain too?
     
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  5. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    I most definately would, uber ethical even.
    I think anyone that wouldn't certainly has no business eating meat.
     
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  7. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I grill , boil, steam and bake them.

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  8. Nebuchadnezzaar Registered Senior Member

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    there is no ethical reason not to eat lobsters,

    and I wouldn't care if there was...i'd still eat 'em
     
  9. Rogue Consciousness Registered Member

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    When a lobster starts sketching out prime numbers let me know. Else, screw them.




    If I didn't want my food to suffer I'd become a vegan.
     
  10. chunkylover58 Make it a ... CHEEEESEburger Registered Senior Member

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    Boiling, baking, or pithing a lobster doesn't seem to be any less ethical or cruel than a shark munching on one with huge jagged teeth. They're probably still alive for the first few bites ... unless they're swallowed whole by one of the bigger sharks, then they sit and slowly digest (alive, most likely) in the stomach for days.

    Seems to be perfectly acceptable for a cheetah to tear out the throat of a gazelle, while her young tear up and eat its belly while it's still breathing, or a racoon to open up a hatchling gator egg in the Everglades and eat the little baby gator before it even has a chance to be "born", that's just nature, the "circle of life" - but NOOOO ... we shouldn't boil a sea-roach because it's cruel?

    Right.
     
  11. Star_One Registered Senior Member

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    268
    The diffrence being, the cheater needs to eat the creature it just killed, we do not, yes, its best if we eat some meats (one that can be killed humainly), but not boiling something alive....

    We live in a world full of choice
     
  12. Nebuchadnezzaar Registered Senior Member

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    573
    animals are stupid, we can eat whatever we want.....

    thank god for fish farming! now we'll have lobsters forever!

    and soon they won't even be expensive, you can have it seven nights a week.
     
  13. Maia Crimson Spirit Registered Senior Member

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    248
    Or.

    You could avoid all of this idiocy and just be a vegetarian.

    *bows all around*

    Yes, thank you for the applause for the shockingly original, creative, new idea that no one could possibly have thought of.

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  14. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    By your logic I should eat you.
     
  15. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    3,833
    Ask a Saharan nomad to be vegetarian and watch his expression. The ethical question is whether it's the animal's suffering that makes it wrong. Could you breed animals with no sense of pain and bypass the ethical complications? Because once you can justify killing something, isn't the way it's killed is just a matter of preference? You're going to take its life whether it likes it or not. All things considered, you're hardly doing the lobster a favour by killing it softly, so to speak.

    On the other hand, if you have respect for it, where does that respect come from? True respect for all life would have you dying a slow death from hunger or living of base minerals and substitutes (which weren't avaliable until recently). So are you just trying to placate your conscience?

    At least in that respect, vegeterianism is a quasi-religious expression related to law and compensation, like sacrifice. It's a moral comment on the way nature is ordered and the requirements of life. Even the word "humane" suggests a mode of action that reflects on being human, as opposed to "being natural".
     
  16. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Show a saharan nomad the attitude some people have towards animals and watch his expression. If you don't think saharan nomads, bushmen, massai etc have respect for animals you're mindnumbingly ignorant.

    Why is it that if any kind of animal rights are being discussed, the retorts revolve around how people are supposed to eat meat? Even if its like "say no to making medicine out of tigers penises" someone will say "humans have a digestive tract suited to eating meat and bla bla"
    Wtf does that have to do with anything?
    Why are people so basic that they can't distinguish between killing and mistreating/disrespecting?
    Killing animals for food was never supposed to be a rage driven activity, we aren't angry at animals when we eat them. If you are, go see a psychologist, or better yet go duke it out with a lion face to face.
    Human anger, aggression, etc is intended for other humans. Hunting animals was (and is for hunter gatherer tribes that still exist) a spiritual experience. And utmost respect was shown to fallen prey. Anger is reserved for members of your own species, organisms you can relate to, communicate with, understand, and thus rightfully become angry with.

    I'm not against eating meat, I'm against the mindset seen in people today. Restricted from venting their anger on other people, they take it out on the living creatures that have no laws protecting them. Usually just by thinking like an idiot (ie nebuchudnezzar and his "fuck them

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    " attitude), but it often gets worse with physical violence, and its just disgusting, cowardly and pathetic. The dispicable look that appears on someones face when they are enjoying hurting an animal that can't defend itself.
    Nothing is uglier than these people, not a "sea-roach" or anything. These people should be boiled alive. Thats not a passive half hearted comment. I would turn up the heat, and slowly lower these people into a boiling pot of water feet first while looking them in the eyes and spitting at them. Set up the contraption and I'll be there.
     
  17. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you assume I suggested they didn't respect life? On the contrary, they have so much respect for life because they know their own lives depend on it.
     
  18. chunkylover58 Make it a ... CHEEEESEburger Registered Senior Member

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    An awful lot of hate there in those last few sentences there, Doc.
    I doubt seriously that people lower the lobster in the pot with an evil grin bellowing "bwahahaha" in utter hate and agression towards the animal. They're just cooking it the way they've been instructed to for centuries. They don't stare into its eyes and spit at it and get some morbid satisfaction out of its death. They're just cooking dinner. It may be mindless (even heartless) but I'm certain it's not malicious.

    Not-so-half-heartedly enjoying the slow torturous death of a fellow human being would certainly be be malicious.
     
  19. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Why do you try to ignore that there are people who enjoy hurting animals? And many of them. I'm not saying everyone that boils a lobster is one of these people. But these people are everywhere. The mindset has been shown in this thread. People insult animals to justify eating them as though the animal is some enemy of theirs.

    Fellow human being? What does that mean? Are they my mother? father? Brother? Friend? No?
    Then fellow nothing. They are competition, they actually are my enemy. I'm one of the few people in modern society that directs anger in the direction it was intended to be directed. At rival humans. Animals have summoned no anger in me, how could they? You might not think you are angry at animals but if you'd save a stranger before a gorrila(like most dispicable viscious humans would) then I can only assume that gorrilas make you angry. There is good reason to let that human die. There is no reason whatsoever to let the gorrila die.
    But people en masse have been brainwashed into having an "us" and "them" mentality when it comes to humans and other animals.
    Thats not natural, Humans never have been a unified team. Being a social animal doesn't imply being one species taking on the world.
    The only vs we are supposed to be involved in is between tribe a and tribe b. We are supposed to hunt animals, but fight and kill people.
    Other people are supposed to be the objects of our violence. Thats the life we are in, its impossible to have a "beef" with a bear right? You don't like the way he hibernates??? You can only relate to other human-beings in a way that could lead to anger or hatred or inspire violence.
    Attacking other humans, causing them pain fighting them etc is akin to sex where as causing pain to animals for the sake of causing pain is akin to rape.
    In the first instances the 2 parties are on the same level and there is a certain understanding.
    If you're attacking an animal with anger it is one sided, the animal is either stone cold confused or thinks you want to eat it. Its mindset will be pure and innocent and you have this rage that this animal obviously does not understand or have any concept of.
    You're satisfying an urge on an unwilling party. It is rape. Hurting or killing an animal other than in a respectfull predator prey interaction(a situation where both parties have an understanding of whats going on, an honest noble event, closer to sex again) is rape.
    Someone I am about to boil alive might seem unwilling, but by becoming angry at me he is reciprocating the notion. There is that understanding. We can look at eachother and he can understand that I am murdering him.
    Young children don't apply here, because like animals they don't understand the natural politics of the adult homo-sapien.
    They should have nothing to do with our anger, they aren't in the game, its like shooting paintballs at someone outside of the skirmish companies property.
    I don't think there is anything malicious about adult human conflict. Or more accurately adult human interaction is supposed to be malicious.
    Where as human interaction with other species is not, and when it is, it is akin to rape.
    I'll get better at explaining this as the thread progresses.
     
  20. immane1 Registered Senior Member

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    You veggie heads crack me up!

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    You are the same people who stomp the shit out of a spider that you find crawling around your homes. I love spiders. I never harm them unless they bite me or something. They at least have a use in our eco-system, killing and eating insects that may be carrying disease. What use do lobsters have other than being food for other animals? I suppose this is useful, but would any animal go extinct if all lobsters vanished from the face of the earth? Doubt it. Furthermore, most world class athletes eat meat. Usually lean red meat, chicken and fish. I think you folks like plants because you can smoke them too! :m:

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  21. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    I would just like to do my "straw man argument alert" thing here, not really worth much more of a reply
     
  22. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    No, I don't. He's a lazy hairy oaf who needs to get his ass off welfare and go get a god damned job. Maybe then he can start buying up acres of land and protecting the friggin' forest, rather than bitching and crying ever time we cut down some more to build a strip mall. And for gods sake, why doesn’t he stay out of my garbage?

    Sorry, Dr. Lou, but a big angry bear killing grin comes over my face every time open season arrives.
     
  23. immane1 Registered Senior Member

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    306
    Ah, but you replied non the less. You couldn't resist could you?

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    I'm not very smart, so maybe you could explain this "straw man" thing to me?
     

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