Sir Loone, Tony1...Here is your chance to convert me!!!

*Originally posted by Godless
Are you blind,*

No.

*this book, this great lie,*

What is the lie?

*of yours is only history of thier past, not a premonition of things to come,*

You're right; it isn't a "premonition."
It is a description.

* in every war people such as you start thumping the redicolous mystic book with end of the world crap!!.*

Every war?
I don't think the Russian/Afghanistan war had anyone thumping it.

*Don't you realize that is this what has caused the problems, it is this that may be the end to humanity as we know it?. *

Of course I realize that the end of the world IS the end to humanity as we know it.
It should be, oh I don't know, obvious?

*Nay your to blind in your book, your still living two thousand years ago!*

My calendar says "2001."
Does yours say "4001?"

*you have forsaken reason; for faith,*

I feel your pain.

*you have forsaken logic for scriptures,*

I can do that, too.
You have forsaken eternal life, for mere reason.
You have forsaken wisdom, for mere data.
What are you thinking?

*just like the sob's who are attacking you have the mind sect to do such evils to fight for your silly convictions of this religion!*

Sounds like you are doing some fighting of your own.
Communists did the same, killing all the Christians they could find.
And they did it with NO BELIEF AT ALL.

*Ay! but you are blind to this reality, you would rather live by creating your own reality instead, of understanding it!.*

Have you truly lost your mind?
If I am hungry, I will create my own reality of being fed.
You, on the other hand, appear to be arguing that you prefer to understand hunger.
Well, be it unto you according to your faith.

*God? where the hell was he/she/it?who knows; for all those people that died? where the hell was the intervention? where the hell is your savior? other then that silly book of yours. *

What intervention?
God says he will save us OUT of trouble, not prevent trouble in the first place.

This poor man cried, and the LORD heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles.
(Psalms 34:6, KJV).

Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he bringeth them out of their distresses.
(Psalms 107:28, KJV).

The righteous is delivered out of trouble, and the wicked cometh in his stead.
(Proverbs 11:8, KJV).

The people that don't get saved out of trouble are those who reject God.

*Originally posted by Banshee
Tony.
Even you die, once.

We will speak after that. *

Yes, we will.
I hope it will be to say "hello," but so far it looks like it will be to say "goodbye," as you get tossed into the lake of fire.

 

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Godless, thanks for the direction and civil response.

Tut tut, Tony.

-------I may have an interpretation -a common ground, if you will- that will stop the one side from attacking the other and prompt a defending side to take it in stride. *

Riiiiight.
There is no common ground between Christ and Antichrist.-------

Scope. Not the mouthwash, but the idea. I always run into this problem as I try to discuss NEUTRALLY the concept of religion to those who adher to it. They do not make any allowances yet ask me to allow their idea. Close-minded, complacent, and plebeian always come to mind when describing blind faith.
If you have found goodness in your religion, I am overjoyed for you. If you have found a DRUG in religion then shame on you, for if one practices a tenet yet closes his mind he is soon eradicated by unseen forces, no matter his religion or lack thereof.

The only thing I see in the world of any worth is nature, acceptance and noble sentiment. You say that the most intelligent people in the world are sure not to be so open with their mind that it falls out. Aside from the amusing image this gives me, it suggests you mean you respect an ACTIVE opression of your mind. I fail to see how this contributes to your happiness, as it is deliberate and limiting. Unless you said that just to make the nifty image, then I see it only as holding you back. NEVER stifle your mind.

There is no ONE idea that unifies opposites (and don't even tell me it's Jesus)... well there is, but not that can be easily imparted. Listen to me now, please. People have endorsed Jesus again and again immediately after I present my philosophy and it only shows their lack of acceptance. What? Why do I request that you not speak your philosphy, that of Jesus? Me? A hypocrite? Probably I am guilty as much as you. I've looked into religion, and I am telling you why I feel it doesn't matter what you or I believe, as long as we struggle for the same. I'm sorry you think I'm going to Hell. I wish you the best. In kinship, everything is based off of HUMAN goodness. In unification to fight evil (no matter its source in the end), we are all saints of our own beliefs.

*I have nothing to convert them to. *

So, your point is... .. .. .. .. |~Well... I'm not sure how many other ways I can put it. I have nothing to convert someone to indicates what? That I don't have anyTHING to convert someone to?~|

*Heaven and Hell are terms we should dispense with when communicating to non-Christians*

Are you saying that non-Christians can't understand what the sky and the grave are?

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Noooo I'm saying that mentioning Proper names has (even in this thread) been proven to put someone on defensive

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Right? There's the little matter of THE TEXT UNDERNEATH AND ABOVE THAT taken out of context. I'm saying that non-christians will not EASILY make the connection between Heaven and Hell and Good and Evil because they are Christian ideas, and not supported. It's like a USB driver in windows 95. (I apologize, I'm at work)

Non Christians have their faults, too in that they will not suffer to learn the symbolism (which is quite stirring, actually) in the Bible. The Bible teaches lessons of life through stories that each person can uniquely interpret. Its literal following is a bit overboard. As reading a fable teaches us to respect an idea, so does reading the Bible. Respecting the idea, not the practice, is recommended to nonbelievers.

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*Originally posted by spankyface
Godless, thanks for the direction*

Godless doesn't have a direction.

*I always run into this problem as I try to discuss NEUTRALLY the concept of religion to those who adher to it.*

That is like saying that you wish to discuss the neutral ground between ON and OFF on your nearest light switch.

*Close-minded, complacent, and plebeian always come to mind when describing blind faith. *

Funny. That is how I describe it, too.

But get up and stand upright; for I have appeared to you in order to appoint you a servant and a witness of those revelations of me which you have already had, and of those in which I shall yet appear to you,
Since I am choosing you out from your own people and from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you,
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God; so that they may receive pardon for their sins, and a place among those who have become God's People, by faith in me.'
(Acts 26:16-18, TCNT).

That is why believers have their eyes open, so as to avoid "blind" faith.

*If you have found a DRUG in religion then shame on you, for if one practices a tenet yet closes his mind he is soon eradicated by unseen forces, no matter his religion or lack thereof. *

I wasn't looking for drugs.

*The only thing I see in the world of any worth is nature, acceptance and noble sentiment.*

That is why you need to open your eyes.

*it suggests you mean you respect an ACTIVE opression of your mind.*

That is opposite to the truth on so many levels.
It means that I don't countenance every random thought proposed by every random bonehead that strays into my path.

*There is no ONE idea that unifies opposites (and don't even tell me it's Jesus)*

It isn't Jesus.
He came to reconcile opposites, not to unify them.
For those who do not wish to be reconciled, he came to polarize opposites.

*People have endorsed Jesus again and again immediately after I present my philosophy and it only shows their lack of acceptance.*

It may show a lack of usefulness in your philosophy as well.

*Why do I request that you not speak your philosphy, that of Jesus?*

Because you don't like it?

*I've looked into religion, and I am telling you why I feel it doesn't matter what you or I believe, as long as we struggle for the same.*

It must have been a passing glance, because it does matter what you believe.
In fact, your religion IS what you believe.

*I'm sorry you think I'm going to Hell.*

It's a tough place to avoid, being the grave.

*we are all saints of our own beliefs.*

No kidding!!!!

*Noooo I'm saying that mentioning Proper names has (even in this thread) been proven to put someone on defensive *

I see that from your own defensive posture.

*I'm saying that non-christians will not EASILY make the connection between Heaven and Hell and Good and Evil because they are Christian ideas, and not supported.*

Most non-Christians DO make the connection between hell and evil.
Of course, it is the wrong connection.
They also easily make the connection between heaven and good.
Again, the wrong connection.

*As reading a fable teaches us to respect an idea, so does reading the Bible. Respecting the idea, not the practice, is recommended to nonbelievers.*

Wishy-washy cuteness.
Reading fables teaches people to NOT respect ideas.
In fact, reading fables blurs the distinction between reason and insanity.

Note that the effect of reading fabulous tales of evolution in school produces in most people the idea that evolution is true.

Few people have the mental strength to question how it is that we have around 100 billion neurons in our brains and, according to the theory of evolution, 5 billion years ago, there were zero.

Well, that means that 20 new neurons had to be added every year for five billion years to create such a brain via evolution.
Obviously, evolution works faster than even evolutionists give it credit for, and they give it a LOT of credit.

 

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Ok. Talking AT each other and dissecting each other's words will get us nowhere.
The fact that neither of us wants to go anywhere will get us nowhere.
I have spent too much time arguing with "compassionate" Christians. You have pushed me further away from Christianity and I have become better aware of the vast reform it needs to undertake to be a truly peaceful religion.
If you please do not dissect my words and take them out of context. It does nothing but prove how incompletely you intend to read my ideas.
If you must cut me up, then give me examples and real-life applications of Godliness. Can you do this without quoting the Bible?
Religion makes the mind lazy, outlining ideas YOU should have formed to provide less thinking for many that adher to it. As I said earlier, it controls the masses, or sheep, where the shepard must be careful not to succumb to corruption, and often fails.
Note that even in the face of my disrespect, Godless let slide my slights and so won my respect. Is that not more Christian than beating a dead horse with Jesus? Realtime examples of compassion, acceptance, abstinence, giving, and loving best express kind hearts and stave off hypocrisy, rather than relying on God to weigh your words down. Stand alone and represent your religion. Why does it preach what it preaches?
Tell me please, without trying to use my words against me.

 

*Originally posted by spankyface
Talking AT each other and dissecting each other's words will get us nowhere.*

I'm not talking AT you.
I'm taking your written statements and answering them point-by-point.
You will understand that the points I see aren't necessarily the points you are trying to make.
For me to see the point you are trying to make exactly as you intend me to see it would require that you know what your point is.

*The fact that neither of us wants to go anywhere will get us nowhere.*

Really?
It would seem obvious.

*You have pushed me further away from Christianity and I have become better aware of the vast reform it needs to undertake to be a truly peaceful religion.*

It would require a truly vast reform for that.

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
(Matthew 10:34, KJV).

*If you please do not dissect my words and take them out of context. It does nothing but prove how incompletely you intend to read my ideas. *

It does have the side effect of also proving that you may be unclear on the concept of making a point.

*If you must cut me up, then give me examples and real-life applications of Godliness. Can you do this without quoting the Bible? *

No.
Even God cannot say anything without using God's Word, so it would be hopeless for me to even try.

*Religion makes the mind lazy,*

Speaking from experience, no doubt.
Religion is the sum total of what you believe, after all.

*outlining ideas YOU should have formed to provide less thinking for many that adher to it.*

Based on that, I wonder what a person should do next.
If I should have come up with the ideas I am thinking now by myself, but didn't, how would you know which way I came up with those ideas?

*As I said earlier, it controls the masses, or sheep, where the shepard must be careful not to succumb to corruption, and often fails.*

That's why the following is in the Bible...

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
(John 10:11,12, KJV).

*Note that even in the face of my disrespect, Godless let slide my slights and so won my respect.*

Is your respect such a great prize?

*Is that not more Christian than beating a dead horse with Jesus?*

I wouldn't have called you a dead horse.

*Stand alone and represent your religion. Why does it preach what it preaches?*

It preaches what it preaches because we do NOT stand alone.

*Tell me please, without trying to use my words against me. *

If your own words are self-contradictory, then change them.
I can't do that for you.

 

'My, my,.
Taking all people down again Tony??
Can't you say something nice, for a change??

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Or did you forget how to be friendly.
I can understand that.
Read your own posts and then you get a bad mood any way.
Is that why you are always so arrogant and irritating to us???

Are you yealous of our freedom.
Looks like you are wrapped in that good bible of yours, and you can't find the way out again.
Well I would be angry too then.
Imagine, locked up in the bible....

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What a horrible idea..
It gives me the shivers.
Locked up in a cruel, demonic book.

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Bye again Tony.
Talk to you later.
I look forward to it.
In this and in the after life.
Bye for now.

 

*Originally posted by Banshee
Is that why you are always so arrogant and irritating to us???*

Probably not.
I think it is because I believe God and you don't.
Darkness doesn't like light.

*Are you yealous of our freedom*

Hardly.
You don't have any.

 

Everyone take a deep breath, and settle down.

Even the Greeks had a heaven and hell. Let us not forget. Hades was their hell, and that is where the evil came from. Zeus reigned in heaven, that is where the "good" came from. But Greek Mythology was proven to be just that a myth, by the christians. They believed their version was better suited for the people.

But, none of this has to deal with my question, how is what happened on 09/11/01 part of the christian god's plan?

 

Devildog, there is no good answer.
It is not gods plan, never..
Forget it.
Cruel god isn't he?

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But Tony is a tool in the hands of the great god almighty.
So HE should have the explanation...
Than he probably will tell you that it were all demons who died.
So no harm done...

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He thinks, can he think???
I do not really know if he is able to think.
Because he only quotes and gives a short line 'text' with it.
Not with love, as his god seemsto do.
So you see, Tony is truly gods friend.
Unfriendly and narrow-minded.
Thinking he knows it all, with his bible.

Give an answer Tony.
Why did all those people die on September 11??
Thank you.

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I have no problems with it not being god's plan. If they can't justify it was then they should atleast have the ability to admit to that.


THAT'LL NEVER HAPPEN.......

 

*Originally posted by DEVILDOG
how is what happened on 09/11/01 part of the christian god's plan?*

Not sure, but it may have something to do with...

In all your dwellingplaces the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places shall be desolate; that your altars may be laid waste and made desolate, and your idols may be broken and cease, and your images may be cut down, and your works may be abolished.
(Ezekiel 6:6, KJV).

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
(2 Chronicles 7:14, KJV).

 

Genesis: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the Earth."

Naga Maya: And when all this was done, the seventh intellect said: "Let us make man after our own fashion and let us endow him with powers to rule this Earth. Then Narayana, the Seven-Headed Intellect, the Creator of all things throughout the universe, created man, and placed within his body a living imperishable spirit, and man became like Narayana in intellectual power. Then was creation complete."



Tony, is this what you mean?
It is quite strange, isn't it?
The Cosmos?
Bye.

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Jolly Good Show

Tony1 that is the closest anyone has come to explaining that tragedy as god's plan. I give you that. It was also different than the minister's version at my work. Not converted yet though.

Banshee isn't plagiarism against the law. Who version came first, That is the major question now?

 

Which People were first??
You see Devildog, The Mayas are an Ancient Race.
They were on Earth much earlier than 2000 years ago...

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You see.
The Mayas version was sooner, haha.

But that was not what I mean by this.
This is almost exactly the same as what genesis tells us in the bible.
So you see, it is the question who first started this jezus thing.
Son of god...
Yeah, I think he was just psychic.
In earlier days people lived closer to Nature and were more able to really listen and really see.
So I think they had abilities as Telepathy and psychic abilities as Psychokinesis, or Telekenesis, and Healing by Hands and seeing Auras.
In that time there was nothing wrong with that. It belonged with life.
Then christianity came and people with that abilities were hunted down like witches and warlocks, because these were devils deeds.

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It is to ridiculous for words.
And now people finally are getting back some of these abilities, people like Tony still want to hunt them down and hang them if he could.
Maybe because he is afraid of what will happen to his black, unfriendly 'soul'.

Hang on to your bible Tony, hang on.
For there is nothing else than that black book for you.
An old Ancient story, bent to words put down in the bible.
Ancient Wisdom brought back to useless words in that bible.
Which monk was the first to steal this Ancient Wisdom and bended it so, it looked like the bible is now.

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It is a Shame...

 

Wake up call for America!

 

I'm not blind

But you are!!
Sir Loonatic, who speaks in tongues, who doesn't see beyond his bible, who would do the same crimes that the terrorists have done, in order to serve his loonatic god!

I'ts the strong commitment, and the attainment of your faith, you can't deny it, you would do it!! if you as so much would believe you heard your god, demanding you to do so!!.

 

What are you talking about?

Ben

 

Dude that answer was so generic it reeks, like a two-bit whores perfume!!!

 

I can't see how the Church promotes an open-minded view of the world when they continually throw the Bible at people instead of human reason.
I thought I'd seen the worse zealots in this thread and had yet read (scrolling in ridiculous amounts for the big letters) one of Sir Loone's posts. You are truly insane. You are of the same fanatical, inflexible, fundamentalist mindset that prompts these terrorists to hate those different instead of accepting them.
They kill women and children because they claim they're infidels. They hide behind a Holy text, abusing its interpretation for their own cause, spouting it off in their defense because they cannot stand alone.
Let's hear it, Tartuffe. What have you sacrificed in true Christian form save your imagination? Prove your open-mindedness or at least present a interpretation capable of being linked to a non-Christian mindset of the text you quote. If you cannot, then it shows the close-minded obstinacy the Bible has nurtured in you.
Be Christian, but don't be blind to other truths.
I would say that since Man existed before the Bible, then it cannot be the ultimate truth. Your interpretation of the world is the ultimate truth. Hey, if it's a dependence on a non-apparent entity and based solely on hope and faith, then that's your thang.
Personally I feel there is tons more to be gained through direct interaction and independence with the world, using no buffer to preset your opinions (i.e. the Bible).
Then you become the most YOU can be because you're ultimately true to yourself, which is generally is as sin-free or more so than many Christians have been while adhering to their faith.