Why doesn't God just show himself?

Southstar...I meant that peter deceived jesus's trust in him in a metaphorically way. Like saying that if you deny knowing a very good friend of yours because it would get you into trouble by saying that you did know this person then you are basically being a coward by not admiting your friendship with this person. If this friend of yours found out later that you pretended not to know him just to save your butt then his/her trust in your friendship would be slightly tarnished. But jesus knew what peter was going to do so it didn't come as no surprise to him so I guess no hurt feelings.

Yes I think we are at an impasse (again) p.m. thorne. I still can't grasp your definition of free will being dependant on "limited choices and inherent qualities". All you need for free will is just two choices to choose from so limitations in choices isn't that important. And inherent qualities (that we are born with) makes free will that much harder if we tend to lean in a particular direction because of our inherent qualities. For free will to be fair we should be completely neutral...with no internal biases.

Anyway, I will miss you being a "thorne" in my side.

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Oh, you do not have to miss me, Mario, at least I do not think so. I cannot decide how much time I can devote to this forum, however. It can become very time-consuming, as my post on Abortions was. Yet, when someone asks me what I think, I hate to be rude and not reply again. Anyway, take care, and perhaps we will touch thoughts again. I did send you a PM once. I suppose that you saw it. Adios.

 

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I'm sorry mario

what is that in response to? I went back three or four pages and didn't find anything..

 

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Hi southstar. You posted a message back a couple of pages (page 20). You asked:

"How can God be decieved?

Do you forget what scripture says about your "allegations"..?
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Not really sure what you meant by your last sentence though. Anyway (yawn) goodnight.

 

You said:

I dunno thorne. I think I'm having just as hard a time following you as you are following me. Am I taking taking biblical texts out of context? Who's context? It's all in the eyes of the beholder. Hence the word "interpretation".

I think you are generalizing a lot in some of your comments. It's one thing to say that it will rain again or we will have a new president in the future because these things have happened in the past. That's a no-brainer. The weather has no free will anyway...it is strictly cause and effect. But, for example, If god "knows all" and he already knows who the next president will be then our choice at election time is already known to god. The way you will vote is already sewn up so to speak. The bible makes explicit predictions that there will be an evil person with the number 666 on his forehead and he will do many evil things. This is a very definite prediction. And this person will have no choice but to do what god has predicted he will do.

BTW, peter did deceive jesus. He deceived his trust in him.

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I say

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James 1
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
16Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. 17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

 

Ever wonder where our desires really come from? Sure god had to give us the desire to reproduce and the desire for survival, but where do all the bad desires come from? Desires like greed and jealousy and hatred etc etc. Do we really create those desires ourselves? Or did god have to first put them into us and then gave us free will to act upon them if we so choosed. God does have jealousy in him because he says "for I am a jealous god" somewhere in the old testament. And if we solely create these sinful urges ourselves then WE are like gods because we can create something that god is incapabale of (sin).

 

God is not "incapable" of anything. He won't sin because the very idea is despicable to Him like you and I do not possibly understand. The evil desires are born in us, they don't come from God.

James 1
16Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. 17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

 

Darkness cannot exist when there is light. I believe our answer to negative behavior is not to strive to avoid such behavior, but rather to be so occupied, mentally and behaviorally in doing the will of God; that is, living in harmony with God's creation, the innate knowledge of God, and having an intellectual love of God. In other words, doing good because we love God, not for brownie points or to avoid punishment. To realize this, we must be free of superstition and fear.
pmt

 

"A strong man hates no one, is enraged with no one, envies no one, is indignant to no one, and is in no wise proud. . . . He who lives under the guidance of reason endeavors as much as possible to repay hatred, rage, contempt, etc., with love and nobleness. . . . He who wishes to avenge injuries by reciprocal hatred will live in misery. Hatred is increased by reciprocated hatred, and, on the contrary, can be demolished by love. . . . Men under the guidance of reason . . . desire nothing for themselves which they do not also desire for the rest of mankind.” -Spinoza

 

If G-d showed himself, we would lose our free will and our right to make choices.

 

On the contrary, Hu is showing himself on all sides. Yet, you cannot see because you are looking through your EYES only!

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"Whichever side you turn, there is the face of Allah" (The Koran)

Close both eyes to see with the other eye!

 

Proof of God? Hmmmm.. Well I can not prove to you anything from the bible per se' or any other holy writings/teachings. The traditional religions of the world are all contorted perceptions of lifes meaning as passed down through eons of mankinds failing attempts at determining self worth. You know "Why am I here?!" which is a favorite question of the egotistical human who thinks that he must serve some greater purpose in the universe. The key to realizing the true existence of a deity is not going to come from a man telling you something or showing you something. That just isn't going to happen. You can prove it to yourself.

Next time you are out somewhere late at night, far from any manmade lights, peer up into a cloudless sky while lying on your back and admire the galaxy. I did this myself on a trip to the Allagash river in Northern-most Maine about 200 miles from the nearest town. You have never seen a night sky like this unless you have been in a location like this.

So what did I realize? I realized that there is too much to everything for it all to be cosmic coincidence. All these millions or billions of worlds out there. The sheer madness that defines the supposed infinite size of the universe. The fact that I can lie there and think about all that. The sound of the river churning white across rocks. The longer you look up, the more stars you can see, and soon the night sky is no longer black, it is almost white with everything that is out there.

Myself, I can't look at myself, my world, my galaxy, my universe and say it's all just a big coincidence. I ask questions like where did it all start? Where did it all come from? Where does it end? Why do I want to know?

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So, only you can decide if there is a God. Exactly what form a God might take is up to you. If you want to believe that it is all just a cosmic dice roll, feel free. I believe there is something out there beyond the reaches of our reality.

-Mark

 

Why do you leave the "o" out in the word God, which is, of course, a more general term for the almighty creator, the great I Am, Allah, Jehovah, and so on? Just curious.