Pour les Canadiens

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Undecided, May 28, 2004.

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Canada Votes.

  1. Liberals

    4 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. Conservatives

    6 vote(s)
    30.0%
  3. NDP

    7 vote(s)
    35.0%
  4. Bloc

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Other

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
  1. eddymrsci Beware of the dark side Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    584
    well the federal election is next monday (June 28th), make up your minds, people
    not me though, I am not even old enough to vote

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  3. Closet Philosopher Off to Laurentian University Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,785
    I'm not voting. Why, you may ask?

    Green Party: Supports the war in Iraq, leans conservative (I was suprised when they said that they support the war on The National). I disagree with War.

    Liberals: Careless spending, scandals, have been in power for too long.

    Conservatives: They support the Americans

    NDP: Will increase certain Taxes and decrease others. They will go into debt.

    Bloq: There is no way in hell I would vote for the seperatists who support the conservative point of view. I live in ontari so that don't have a candidate here.

    Communist Party: Good Ideas but too difficult to practice.

    Action Party: They also have interesting concepts. They won't win anyway.

    There are aspects of all the parties that I like and dislike. If I HAD TO CHOOSE, I would vote NDP. I hate the election. It forces candidates to lie to get votes and the TV is littered with stupid commercials.
     
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  5. Undecided Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,731
    NDP seems to be for me, I like Jack. Of the three he seems to actually know what he is talking about. Being from Toronto, he is attractive to us for obvious reasons. I hope the NDP take Toronto by storm, and the Liberals Ontario. I just don't want to see Harper in that PM's seat in Ottawa.
     
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  7. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,624
    Like ILikeSalt I don't want to vote but I will (I think it's some kind of genetic thing in my family). I'm either going to spoil my ballot or vote liberal (ugh), I haven't decided yet.
     
  8. Closet Philosopher Off to Laurentian University Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,785
    I know that my parents have spoiled their ballots when the candidates are not up to their standards. If I was going to vote, I would be tempted to vote liberal even with their scandals because they are being watched carefully by the auditor general's grew. The thing is, who can police the government?

    Jack Layton is quite an interesting person. He has stood up for respectable ideals for a long time. If he becomes prime minister, be can stir up some international political controversy about the war. I am simply anti-war and anti-stupidity. It's sad that none of the parties seem to hove those qualities... except for the NDP. The NDP can be prone to scandal and mistakes from not being experienced in parliment. all I knwo is that we need some sort of change in parliment. I hate war therefore I hate the conservatives.
     
  9. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,624
    NDP have a good outlook I think and if they weren't economic poison I'd probably vote for them. From what I can tell though, they'd have to bankrupt the country or tax 95% of my income to pay for even half of the stuff they claim they'll do if they win.
     
  10. Blazin_billy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    67
    Im only 15, but I'd vote Green Party. Not because Im a pot smoker, but because I like the way they think.
     
  11. Undecided Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,731
    NDP have a good outlook I think and if they weren't economic poison I'd probably vote for them. From what I can tell though, they'd have to bankrupt the country or tax 95% of my income to pay for even half of the stuff they claim they'll do if they win.

    That’s the typical stereotypical attitude taken towards the NDP; they have a budget that is more logical then the conservatives. According to the major banks the conservative numbers simply don’t add up. The NDP’s budget is well within the range of future fiscal projections, and Jack Layton has been able to slay the TORONTO BUDGET (scrarry!) for the past decade or so. So really that old straw man about the NDP is now wholly unjustified.
     
  12. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,624
    well, I live in a place that's been 'lead' by the ndp for twelve years so don't give me that straw man crap. My assertion is based on actual experience and over a decade of evidence.
     
  13. Undecided Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,731
    So then I should say that the Provincial and Federal parties are the same? If so the Liberal Govt has a severe case of schizophrenia. I don’t buy that crap that provincial and federal parties are one in the same.
     
  14. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,624
    of course there are differences but it's the only comparison available. Is it perfect? no but it's all I've got. Looking at the success/failure of a previous ndp prime minister, for example, is even less helpful. The promises and numbers offered by each present party leader is also pointless if history is any indication so, in my opinion, present provincial success/falure is the best (if flawed) method I can think of.

    If you have a better gauge let me know.
     
  15. Undecided Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,731
    of course there are differences but it's the only comparison available. Is it perfect? no but it's all I've got.

    That’s not true, go on their website and check out their platform. You cannot compare something to nothing; they haven’t been in power federally so let’s not immediately dismiss them like some fringe. Unlike the conservatives, Jack Layton has practical experience with budgets, and the hardest one in Canada, Toronto’s who has a budget larger then Sask. I’d have more trust in Layton then Harper imo.

    Looking at the success/failure of a previous ndp prime minister,

    There’s been a NDP PM? Have I missed a decade?

    If you have a better gauge let me know.

    http://www.ndp.ca/ That’s a good start.
     
  16. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,624
    lol, I think it's pretty obvious that was a typo, reread that sentence minus "ndp" and you'll get my point.

    I hate to quote myself but I addressed this. "The promises and numbers offered by each present party leader is also pointless if history is any indication..."
     
  17. Undecided Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,731
    I hate to quote myself but I addressed this. "The promises and numbers offered by each present party leader is also pointless if history is any indication..."

    I am one of the biggest cynics when it comes to politics, but what else do we have? Like that 80’s sang says “One thing leads to another” they all get corrupted by their own megalomania.
     
  18. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,624
    exactly, we have nothing but imaginary numbers and promises or the record of provincial leaders currently in power. Both are poor but of the two at least looking at premiers tells you something. Party platforms are about as good a future indicator as madame cleo.
     
  19. fireguy_31 mors ante servitium Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    667
    Sorry to disrupt a perfectly good debate folks but, a party's effectiveness depends on their ability to lead - something that hasn't been addressed in the past several posts.

    NDP- Looking to move the agenda. Very noble. The only problem is their track record is marred. They're a deer caught in the headlights when their attempt to move the agenda succeeds - have no clue what to do next (look no further than the NDP era in Ontario for evidence).

    New Conservatives- Too focussed on promising everything under the sun for no other reason than to gain power. Too focussed on overthrowing the Liberals than to critically think about leading this country.

    I've seen it time and again, a new government come to power on the strength of their promises without a clue how to follow up.

    Far too often people, and political parties, overlook the bureaucray of government - it's a necessary evil, one that requires strong leadership and one that devours whimsical promises.

    Green Party- Absolutely no experience in leading.

    Bloc- Too centralized and focussed to fully represent 'Canadians'.

    Liberals- The only party with solid experience in leading - may have become complacent. There is a risk; parties that become complacent tend to lack leadership.

    From what I've seen in this political race, i'd be hard pressed to think the Liberals are anything but complacent - they're in for the fight of their careers.

    It doesn't matter what a political party promises, it comes down to a political parties ability to deliver what they promise, which takes leadership. The Liberals have delivered on many fronts because of their ability to lead.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2004
  20. Undecided Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,731
    My greatest hope is that the Liberals come into power with a minority, the NDP being the official opposition, and the Bloc and Conservatives are secluded in the corner. But in reality it seems that the Conservatives and Bloc are going to hold the power, Martin is scared shitless about a NDP ride in Ontario (begging ppl not to vote NDP because they share the same core values and using the Nader response a vote for the NDP is a vote for the Conservatives). I am glad to see that this election isn’t over before it started like the last three, but I seriously do fear a Conservative victory, Bush on Morphine.
     
  21. fireguy_31 mors ante servitium Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    667
    Undecided
    The worst possible outcome is a minority government, it serves no one.
     
  22. Undecided Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,731
    The worst possible outcome is a minority government, it serves no one.

    Not when there is a coalitional government, I have always feared a majority govt because its too monotonous and it’s too mob like in nature. Where are the checks and balances in the Canadian political system? Unlike in the US where everything has a check and balance, Canada only has the commons to deal with.
     
  23. fireguy_31 mors ante servitium Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    667
    Without question, the Parliamentary system of government we Canadians adopted from the Brittish tends to lack a 'checks and balances' system the US has but, that fact doesn't make our system fallible at the expense of such a void.

    Simple answer (I'm tired): a checks and balances system is nothing more than duplicity, another layer of bureaucracy that weighs on the ability of government to be effective. Sure, a minority government will provide a default 'checks and balances' system. My argument nests with a party's ability to effectively lead - something that is inherantly hindered by a minority government.
     

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