Are faith and doubt mutually exclusive?

Traditional Christian belief is that you cannot have faith and doubt at the same time. You can have questions but you cannot have doubt.

My belief is that faith and doubt are both required in order to truely know God.

I believe in the seperation of God and religion.

After studying almost all religions on earth, I believe all religions are defined by the culture. In order to truely find God, you have to destroy the layers of culture that shield us from God. Doubt will help us accomplish just that.

Also I believe all religions are prone to corruption by human, Christianity included, since human is imperfect. I cannot possibly understand why Christians believe that their religion is 100% pure and others contain 0% truth. Oh wait, the bible said so. nevermind.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

What exactly do you mean by at the same time? Do you mean one moment you could be in doubt and the next you could be in faith? Yes, that's possible. Willing doubt will always lead you to enslaving yourself to your Self. Because you cannot be sincere in your convictions of your beliefs, you will reject them for selfish motives.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Joeman,

BTW:
Have you read Descartes' Meditations?
I *doubt*, therefore I think, I think, therefore I am.

Do you know to what purpose Descartes wrote the Mediations?
It was a tool that the Church could use when approaching non-believers, and be able to understand the way non-believers think, so that they could tell them how wrong they are, and eventually show them "the right way".
Without the preface, the Meditations are purest heresy!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

It's just that you can't doubt something and have faith in it at the same time. That is, doubting the very thing you have faith in. You could doubt a different aspect of it, but really that's a different doubt.

 

*************
M*W: This can and does happen to the strongest of believers. It happened to me when I was a Christian. It is extremely guilt-provoking, too. When I found out the truth about Christianity, I started doubting it, but I was in such denial about it due to the guilt I had for believing such apostatic ideas. This religion I made myself learn and believe in blindly and unquestionably proved to me to be based on lies. That's when I grieved over my loss, a tremendous loss, and set out to find the truth. It is possible to have faith in something and doubt it at the same time. At some point, during the depth of our self-imposed or otherwise enforced psychological addictions, a little light of wisdom can shine through the inner dark recesses of our
minds. This is when the truth breaks in and we become awakened and enlightened and able to truly discern the lies.

 

Joeman,

Then that is impossible.

Faith means being convinced that something is true without any evidence.

Doubt means you are not convinced that something is true.

Faith and doubt are clearly mutually exclusive and cannot exist at the same time.

You cannot have one without the other.

Webster – Religion: b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural.

As soon as you create some form of definition of a god or a supernatural entity and decide to worship it in some way then even if you are the only one with that particular definition you will be practicing a religious action.

There are thousands of them so I am sure you are exaggerating. But your conclusion is partially true. Some religions, however, come from the same culture yet are very different, e.g. Deism, Pantheism, Wicca, and Christianity all arise from a similar culture yet are massively different to each other.

This sounds like an admirable attempt to be objective but you have failed from the outset since you are presupposing that a god exists and that if it does exist then it can be found or wants to be found. And what exactly do you mean by “God”? In Buddhism there is no such thing recognizable as a god as we would perceive it in Christian terms, but this religion has a wonderful perspective on a definition of an ultimate truth. Hinduism has multiple godheads and they can even call anything a god – Hinduism is often called the religion of a million gods. Wicca has also a nice perspective and sees nature as a spiritual force, although that is an oversimplification. Deism is attractive since its god is unknowable doesn’t do anything and only wound up the original clock and now sits back and watches its creation unfold.

Doubt is a good start and an essential first step towards scientific discovery. Your next step should be to rid yourself of the baseless assumption that there is anything to find and begin your search with an open mind.

And I would further suggest that you don't look for a god but look for truth instead - that is a far more noble objective.

Kat

 

Ok woman enough!!!!!!!!!!! , how did you get in my head....... you better stop his shit now!!!!!!! WTF !!!!!!!! This shit aint even funny!!!!

I think I love you...... :bugeye:

 

*************
M*W: Only a man who shares the One Spirit of God with me and all humanity could understand this spiritual interconnectedness with the All. We are of like mind and love is produced by our interconnectedness with all humanity. God said, "I AM" (the One, the All). Maybe others will feel welcome join us in this love.

 

No words could describe what I feel inside right now. Thankyou M*W. I came to this forum a little confused. But I will leave knowing I never was.

 

*************
M*W: Thank you for your kind and supportive words. We are not alone in this world filled with doubt and confusion. I'm so happy that you have "awakened" from the light, and I encourage you to stay and help bring the light to others.

~ Peace and love.

 

If you keep this in mind, you'll find life is a goodness to be lived, to be loved, not packaged and sold. It was all there from the beginning, just forgotten.

No thoughts can be totally exclusive of each other. The mere fact that one can differentiate between faith and doubt shows this. They are related in our thoughts. Do not be too quick to pass judgement, to declare that something is the way it is.

 

I think that in order to know what faith is, one must know what doubt is -- both at the same time, as counterparts.
If both are present, and balanced out, then the person has both a sound feeling of what faith is (becuse they know what doubt is), and also a sound feeling of what doubt is (because they know what faith is).

This balance of faith and doubt prevents a person from becoming vain and self-righteous.

 

I agree. Faith includes doubt. According to Descartes you cannot be certain of anything beyond your ability to think. Does that mean I have no existence outside my mind? Of course not - so the two aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, cogito, ergo sum implies "I doubt, therefore I know". The real question is what do you doubt, and how much do you choose to have faith in?

Take love, for example. It's supposes trust. But can you wait until you know everything about someone before you trust them, and can you love and doubt them? No, at some stage you suspend your doubts and decide to trust them in order to love them for who they are, including what you don't know about them.

In other words, doubt does not have to diminish faith - and in a certain sense, responsibly, it even defines faith.

 

I have to disagree. Knowing what doubt means does not imply one doubts. If we did not doubt, we would either believe we were God or would be completely one, perfect and complete with God. And while not all doubt decreases faith, one's doubt is lack of trust of God.

But not all doubt is sinful, some doubt may even lead someone closer to God. Yet all doubt in their faith is at least an imperfection, and we called to love our God with all our heart, mind, and soul. For if one trusts the evidence of the world moreso than God, who are we treating as God?

 

True. One cannot doubt God and trust Him at the same time. But doubt in one area of your faith, say, whether you're allowed to eat pork or should go to church on Saturday, does not have to threaten your trust in God. Paul addressed many doubts that the churches were having, but always reminded them what it meant to put their trust in God.

I personally prefer to see doubt as a sacrifice of faith, i.e. in subjection to God, not something I have to worry about, but something I have to examine purely and sincerely.

 

Yes, you are correct. There's a difference between doubting yourself and doubting God.

 

Jenyar:

What was once doubt because one didn't know the other person well, should, IMO, later on *turn into* not taking love for granted.

I think this is the mistake many people make: They stop doubting the other person, and take love for granted.

 

That's an interesting way of putting it

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

"You don't doubt me enough anymore! I'm leaving you!"

Just kidding. I agree with you. There should always be room for doubt in a relationship. But it has to be leashed to trust, otherwise it runs loose and creates havoc.

 

Personally I think doubt and faith not only can, but MUST co-exist if the faith is to have any vitality.

I have faith in God; but I also sometimes have doubts. The doubts cause me to question my faith. The questions must be answered. When I am able to find answers to those questions, my faith is strengthened as a result.

 

Cob nut,

It’s impossible since the definitions of the two conditions are mutually exclusive.

This is the essence of your confusion and of others who have been posting here. You cannot have faith and doubt at the same instant, it is either one or the other. What you are saying is that you cannot make up your mind.

The very essence of confusion.

You have the makings of someone who has the potential to be logical. Truthful answers about gods can only come through evidence and you won’t find any – to a logical person that is good reason to doubt. If you are in doubt (not convinced that something is true) then you cannot be in a state of faith (convinced that something is true).

Until your next doubt, right? You are simply confused and do not find religious blind faith a satisfactory means to convince you of truth.

If you have true faith in God then you will never have any doubts. You may be ignorant about some of the details of your religion or may not fully comprehend some of the texts in the bible, but these are just a matter of knowledge not faith.

Kat