How the USA can Win the war on Terror

Well at least Eng Grez we know you didn't go to any of schools...its pretty evident.

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Also I would like to mention that most of the best professors in the US are actually like everything else...imported!

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I smell trollflesh. Force is with me. I shall resist. :m:

 

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I smell trollflesh. The force is with me. I shall resist. :m:

 

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Funny how you single out other people for defamation of character when you yourself excel at this. Hasn't anyone ever told you that when you start personally name-calling someone, it only proves him right and you wrong. After that, it's all downhill.

Also, let me add that the U.S. military is the best in the world. Our technology is unparalleled. We take great pains to minimize civilian casualties. Most civilian casualties in Iraq are not thanks to American bombings, but rather to the cutting off of basic utilities, such as electricity and water, most of which were cut off by Saddam rather than U.S. bombs, and lack of access to medical supplies and hospitals, which were taken by Saddam's forces or occupied by his forces during the war, and the breakdown of UN aid missions to Iraq bringing in food and medicine because the Iraqi Army would have shot the UN aid workers or taken them hostage.

 

What's wrong? I win already? No one's offering a refuation? Doesn't surprise me when I deal in reality.

 

Funny how you single out other people for defamation of character when you yourself excel at this. Hasn't anyone ever told you that when you start personally name-calling someone, it only proves him right and you wrong. After that, it's all downhill.

Not really in this instance because I wasn’t presenting an argument so much as merely exposing my feelings about you the ultimate untermensch. I wasn’t making a point, and as you know imitation is the highest form of flattery, its comforting to see you using my arguments too bad in the wrong contexts.

Also, let me add that the U.S. military is the best in the world. Our technology is unparalleled. We take great pains to minimize civilian casualties. Most civilian casualties in Iraq are not thanks to American bombings, but rather to the cutting off of basic utilities, such as electricity and water, most of which were cut off by Saddam rather than U.S. bombs, and lack of access to medical supplies and hospitals, which were taken by Saddam's forces or occupied by his forces during the war, and the breakdown of UN aid missions to Iraq bringing in food and medicine because the Iraqi Army would have shot the UN aid workers or taken them hostage.

Quack,Quack,Quack, that’s how you sound like. Does anyone doubt that the US is the most advanced in the world? But what good does that do when you can’t even thwart a North Korean invasion today? Not much…so go on be exceptionalist it tickles me so oh you big troll.

 

Eng, that's just Undecided's standard technique, well known to the regulars here (just got through figuring it out myself). Don't take it personally. If you can cringe your way through the insults he puts up a pretty good discussion when he puts his mind to it. 8->

 

Understood Pangloss.

Undecided,

Answer me this question.

Which side do you want to win this war: the side of freedom, of liberalism, of secularism, or the side of religious fascism?

It's a simple question.

 

If the people of Iraq want a religious fascism, then it is their right to have one.

 

Not neccessarily. If Einstein had called someone a troll because they didn't accept that the speed of light was constant for all observers regardless of their motion then the troll would still have been wrong.

I'm sure you're proud that you can murder more people than any other nation.

<sarcasm>You're doing a great job. Only 10,000. That's not really much of a price to pay for thousands of gallons of oil is it? Especially considering that they're not even American and therefore of less value than the rest of the world, right?</sarcasm>

And none of those casualties were neccessary if the USA didn't go against the UN and international law and invade Iraq. Where is the conclusive proof of weapons of mass destruction? That was GWB's justification for going into Iraq in the first place wasn't it?
If you're going to claim now that the war was on humanitarian grounds, firstly, it wasn't. It was either about weapons of mass destruction or oil. Secondly, Abu Ghraib. Need I say more?
Thirdly, why pick Iraq? Why not any of the countless other human rights abuses around the world? And why start now? Why not invade China in 1989?

 

Which side do you want to win this war: the side of freedom, of liberalism, of secularism, or the side of religious fascism?

Intelligence and I am waiting for that to come about…about this war which is Iraq I would assume like Avatar said it is up to the Iraqi people to decide and they will vote for the Theocratic rulers, for you see democracy is not all its cracked up to be now is it? As for you EngGrez Pangloss at least is able to understand other positions and even agree’s with me and shows me a modicum of respect. If you didn’t act like a dick half the time I would have considered you at least worthy of time.

 

Excuse me for butting in...

Which side do you want to win this war: the side of freedom, of liberalism, of secularism, or the side of religious fascism?

Which side is which?

Is America supposed to be the free liberal one? If it is then you haven't tried booking a vacation in Cuba lately. I went two years ago, it was peachy! But then again my government makes no effort to curtail my freedom of movement

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This the same liberal free country that arrests students whose personal homepages have links to sites that contain links to sites that criticize US foreign policy? Actually I take that back. They arrested the guy under the patriot act but the courts let him go because they felt he had no case to answer. This the same liberal country that routinely bugs members of Amnesty international and other none violent activist groups, holds prisoners in offshore detention facilities to avoid giving them constitutional rights and deny them access to due process of law? Not that due process would do them much good seeing as rates of criminal conviction are considerably higher for those forced to rely on public defenders rather than shelling out the cash the way OJ Simpson did. Ooh I could bash on like this for hours you know! I'm sure it's all in vain, I imagine you were really refering to Iraq when you talked about 'freedom' and 'liberalism' lets face it Iraq has no organised security force in place (the biggest Iraqi gripe in poll after poll) and much of the country is close to anarchy. You can't find a more liberal system than Anarchy now can you?

religious fascism

Well that could be either side!
What was it Rudy Guiliani said?

Would you like me to throw you a few 'godly' quotes from old GW to back that up?
Ok then!

Oops ignore that last one, That was Adolf Hitler, sorry.
So what side should we all be on again?
Dee Cee

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Feel the need to answer the question any time. Who do you want to win? The West or Islamic fundamentalists? It's a simple choice. Why were you unable to make that choice and answer the question in your last post?

It's a very simple thing to do. All you have to do is type a few words: either "The West," or "The Islamic fundamentalists." One or the other.

Who do you want to win?

Why won't you answer?

 

He's been banned. There's a tagline under his username; if it says "Banned" then they can't reply.

Guess he lost his cool. I hope they let him back in soon.

 

You don't understand. Whether he wants either side win it must not matter, because it is for the people of Iraq to chose. In a democratic vote. And if a religious Islam state they want then such a state they must be allowed to have. Or you have forgotten what is democracy?

 

Why won't you answer any of my posts? Or other people who have strong arguments against your claims, such as Avatar or DeeCee?

 

Usually someone else repeats something similar to what you said, so I just cover it in that post.

Where in my post did I indicate or reflect proudness over having the best military?

10000 is no where close to the 500,000 Saddam murdered.

And think about how many killing we prevented by toppling Saddam?

Where is the conclusive proof of Bush went to Iraq for oil that you so blantly scream?

Proof?

Did you just forget about Saddam when you posted that?

Saddam was evil, he killed over 500k of his own people, he was a threat to the world, he violated numerous UN resolutions. Need I say more?

 

Referring to the education K-12 comment: Map & Graph: Education: Science aptitude - grade 12 (Top 15 Countries)

My personal opinion. I think that once the US entered WWI/II it over emphasized the importance of military and subsequently led the US down the path of a war monger - inevitable really. And ultimately didn’t change much anyway. The atrocities that the US supposedly is fighting against it then perpetrated against Koreans, Vietnamese and now Iraqis – these being perfect examples. Ever wonder why North Koreans are paranoid? Just think back to when the CIA set about assassinating as many innocent Korean Professors and physicians hoping that this would somehow lead to the overthrow of the State (instead look at what they have now).

Really there are just too many examples to list. It’s absolutely revolting.

Suffice to say I think these peoples destinies should be left to them including those people of WWI/II.

The fact that the US spends more money on it’s military then all nations combined is incredible and absurd. Yet, it fills many Americans with glee knowing it – not that it helped on 9/11. Anyway, think, with just a fraction of that money the US could feed the world and with a fraction more deliver basic medical supplies to the world.

I think leading by example and generosity works much better than by the barrel of a gun – don’t you?

If you call occupation by the US military combined with the installation of a puppet government (per usual) freedom then I guess you’re right.

Let me ask you a few questions to see where the common ground lays:

(1) In the 1960s were the Vietnamese terrorists when they resisted against the French colonialists?

(2) In the 1960/70s were the Vietnamese terrorists when they resisted against the American army?

(3) Can you see ANY similarities at all b/w Vietnam and Iraq? ANY? What?

(4) If the Iraqi people will it, will you be happy if they vote in a government identical to the Taliban or Iran?

(5) Do you feel that killing 10000 (as you quote) innocent civilians is worth the “liberation” of Iraq - if they then vote in a Taliban style government?

(6) Do you think the US should maintain the trade embargo on Cuba? Why? What about China?

(7) Do you think a case could be made that GW Bush is a war criminal if he completely fabricated the WMD story (as is likely) to invade and occupy Iraq?

(8) Do you think that Iraq was more of a threat to the US security than North Korea (you know the one with the nukes)?

(9) Do you think that the Iranians should have the ability to make or buy nuclear weapons? What about the US? What about Israel?

(10) Do you think that oil had ANYTHING to do with the fact the GW Bush pushed the US invade Iraq?

(11) Can you NOW see why Germany and France (along with the rest of the world) did not support the Iraqi invasion?

(12) Now knowing that the Iraqis had no WMD do you still think that the US should have invaded Iraq?

(13) Regardless of its veracity, do you think that there’s something to the Presidential IQ Report?

147 Franklin D. Roosevelt (D)
132 Harry Truman (D)
122 Dwight D. Eisenhower (R)
174 John F. Kennedy (D)
126 Lyndon B. Johnson (D)
155 Richard M. Nixon (R)
121 Gerald Ford (R)
175 James E. Carter (D)
105 Ronald Reagan (R)
98 George H. W. Bush (R)
182 William J. Clinton (D)
91 George W. Bush (R)

And I said it doesn’t mean much. China is the second richest – does that mean the average Chinese lives about as good as the average US Citizen? I mean their only 2nd - Of course not.

That’s not that much. But, again, money isn’t the total yard stick. What you should wonder is why is it that Americans are one of the hardest working people on the planet, have no free medical, pay threw the nose to go to University, and only bring home just over 30k per year?

I’m pretty sure it has since moved from $11.30 to $12.50 this year (or maybe soon will) and I thought that people over 26 get around $15. Certainly that's what all the older students around here get for part-time work.

Regardless, the exchange rate doesn’t work linearly: I’m happy to say AU is the highest: see Minimum Wage Rates in Other Countries .

I can see math wasn’t a strong point. Using your ratio 1/1.39 it works out that $5.15USD is $7.16AUD, that’s about $4.20 less than $11.30! One could say in AU we make almost half again what you’d make in the US, as a minimum.

I see Kala you over looked the few questions regarding women and children? Are you a least bit bothered by little children killed?

Yeah maybe - but it's worth it to YOU right?

And you are American. So your values are the BEST ergo killing kids is OK - when America does it.

Because when America does it they do it for the BEST reasons. So its OK then huh?

We’ll even take your quote of 10,000 (just like the WTC were ONLY 3000 huh?) - it was worth it to you huh?

 

Who do you want to win? The West or Islamic fundamentalists?

Oh well...

Let me update my flash plugin and I'll Think about it. .

Oops thats kinda gory best be careful. Oh and be thankful that you have a choice as to how many corpses you see in a day.

Hey Eng what would you like for breakfast? Ground glass or Slugs?

Dee Cee

BTW I much prefer the music on Here!

 

Eng Grez.

You anti-American reverse-psychology troll, quit bashing an innocent world power minding its own business.

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Alright, alright. Moving swiftly along to somewhere closer to the point.

Winning the war on terrorism? A first step would be to get Bush out of office and get Kerry in. I do not think Kerry is better for the job than Bush. However, at this point, only a change in leadership will afford even a remote chance of unfucking all the things America has fucked up.

Think about it. If Bush makes it again, then things won't have changed, except for an additional badge of dishonor to the Americans for having voted for the (popularly considered to be a) nitwit again. If Kerry makes it, then at least we have an excuse: Bush fucked things up, and now that we have a new leadership, please forget all the stuff we've fucked up and start over. I'm not saying our problems will vanish into thin air once Kerry gets in, but at least we'd be able to start with a cleaner slate.
(Note that I said 'cleaner', not 'clean'.)

Then what's next? The long-term plan would be to help the Arab countries actually have an economy that isn't dependent on oil. Help poor countries grow decent economies. You're less likely to go blow yourself up in a suicide bomb attempt when your family is well fed and you have a nicely paying job, perhaps happily married ... because you'll have a lot to lose when you do so.

Oh, and it might be a good idea to toss around some olive branches and political bribes by doing nice things like running high profile government-funded educational programs for things like "Let's Understand Islam Better", giving aid to poor Arab countries, give Israel slaps on the wrist when it's naughty (building a fence on land stolen from the Palestinians was naughty), et cetera.

Of course, we could always just destroy the entire human race with a nuclear world war and let Mother Nature start over with a less fucked up species.

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