What is your opinion about the spirit of the holy scpritures? Did all the prophets READ the same spirit from a level? To me: Reading the Koran in true sense is reading the SPIRITof the KORAN. Not the literal words. Reading the literal words in Arabic is a zhikr. But to be able to “READ” the Koran, it is necessary to consider the purpose for which the verses regarding a particular event were revealed, and the benefits that these verses aim to provide man and women with. All the evaluations must be based on these facts. The Koran did not start with its communication in Arabic. It always is existent in the essence of the universe and will last there until doomsday. This SPIRIT was READ and COMMUNICATED to people by all Rasuls and Nabis with the tongue of their people. (See 14:4) so that it must be reflected upon. Mohammed did not write the Koran. He READ the SPIRIT of the KORAN since he was revealed the first command: READ (iqra), and communicated it to people for along 23 years. Jesus did not write a book, the READ the same book written in his own essence as well as in the universe (see 41:53) and communicated it to people with their language. All Nabis and Rasuls read the same system that operates for us. The commands are not sent by a separate god from above. All our misunderstandings and misdeeds are caused by our imagination of a separate god, to which our egos convince us to boost its feeling of specialness. The Koran tells the system of Allah (known as sunnatAllah) and the laws that operates in life and that all humans are subject to, knowingly or unknowingly. Those laws existed always even before the revelation of the Koran to Mohammed (pbuh). Without understanding this fact one cannot truly evaluate the message given in the printed book, and you are fooled into thinking that the word Koran refers to the printed book you have in your bookcase. On should look behind the words to READ the SPIRIT of the Koran. As a result of our failure to understand the "SPIRIT of the Koran", the Koran is not actually READ and thus, people hold onto its surface verbalism, literal meaning. The unfortunate consequence is that the given message is lost! When need arises to create a law, the main factor in its establishment is in fact the SPIRIT of such a law, which demands that law to be established. An adequate fashion of rendering (statement) is determined in connection with that SPIRIT, that is the prospect of thought, and it is verbalized and therewith an article of law is brought into existence… When a judge needs to exercise this law, he establishes a connection between the given event and his own perspective of judicious reasoning about that event and makes a judgment based on the main reason that has formed the law. If a judge sets his opinion about an event by taking the law within the surface verbalism rather than respecting the SPIRIT of that law, he is most likely to MISJUDGE! A judicial decision must be based not on the literal aspect of a law but on its SPIRIT! Laws exist along with their SPIRITS. If they are taken in MERE VERBALISM, DEVIATIONS from the goal will result! The conscience of a judge is there to help the judicious reasoning of an event be based on the SPIRIT of law! In the same way, to be able to “READ” the Koran, it is necessary to consider the purpose for which the verses regarding a particular event were revealed, and the benefits that these verses aim to provide man and women with. All the evaluations must be based on these facts. Every INDIVIDUAL is responsible of READING the Koran in this sense for themselves, of which the signs are shown to them in their outer and inner worlds, until it is clear to them that the whole oneness is the real. (See 41:53) To make excuses for the mistakes that it was the practice of other Muslims in their surroundings, is of no importance. Learning the system of life by following the Koran, rather than by following the Muslims is essential for every human being. Those who fail to do so will suffer its consequences in the Hereafter, when they see they survived without a physical body.
Sufi, I agree very much with your words regarding the 'spirit' of holy scripture. The death and ressurection of Jesus in the bible is the spirit of God but Jesus came as a human being to fulfill the prophecies written about him. Jesus was The Word made flesh. I do not see how the Koran deals with sin but I do see how Jesus deals with sin i.e. takes the punishment for us for the consequences of sin, puts it all to death and then gives us hope of new life in Him through the promise of the Holy Spirit whom I have received. Do you recognise Jesus as the Messiah? The law had to be fulfilled after all! peace c20
I'm guessing they deal with it as Jesus might have when he said if your brother sins against you up to 70x7 times, forgive him, and if your brother sins against you 7 times a day, and turns to you and says "I repent", forgive him. FORGIVE HIM. Jesus didn't say that the offender should sacrifice up to 490 animals for each sin committed, did he? An omnipotent deity does not need a sacrifice to take away sin, in my opinion. And such a sacrifice is not "justice" anyway, in my opinion. What "justice" was there in Jesus' supposed atonement? It may have appeased God's "wrath", but there was no "justice" involved in it from what I can see. It was the most unjust thing which has ever been done, if God took the weight of the sins of the world and his wrath and put it on Jesus (though somehow he still has enough wrath left over for "unbelievers"). It's more like cruelty from what I can tell. In this sense I see Islam as more rational than Christianity, though I have problems with Islam also.
You search and search but you do not see it because you are looking in the wrong places. Your trespasses against others are truly evil given what you all are i.e sons of God ordained by the Most High God! Those you have hurt require justice but they too require mercy for the sins they themselves have commited. We could forgive and forgive but we could not guarentee total forgiveness among all? Some people who do evil acts towards others do it with eyes wide open and they will never repent because they enjoy the evil that they do. Where is the justice for their victims when those murderers are not caught? Is the soul of a slaughtered child meant to accept that no retribution will be meted out to the evil one who took their lives so cruelly and without mercy? I tell you those that have shown no mercy will be shown no mercy for the sake of those little ones. But yet Jesus has provided a way for all. All of God's anger was poured out on innocent little Jesus with Jesus' consent of course (not my will be done but yours) so that all who believed in Jesus would be set free from the curse of the law which brings death to sinners because of their trespasses. Whoever hears the Lords prayer and recites it believes in the one who said it and are set free. The Holy Spirit is poured out on all those that believe in Jesus and it is by this Spirit that we know Jesus fully even as we are fully known. In knowing Jesus we know his father because they are one. This is a great mystery but it is as true as I am typing here. God is Love. God is The Word. God is good. God is Holy praise Him. peace c20
C20, do you know me? Do you know about my "trespasses against others", etc? Maybe if you quit thinking of people in Biblical terms for a bit (I know, that's not really likely or to be expected, since you are a Christian), you might look at things differently. I'm an "unbeliever", but please, at least for a second, consider me for who I am, not as what the book you believe as being from God describes "unbelievers" as. It's still very unjust to put God's "wrath" on a supposedly innocent man, isn't it? If all of God's anger was put on Jesus (which I see as colossally unjust), how does he have any left for "unbelievers"? He didn't get it all out on Jesus? If God is both "just" and "merciful", how do you explain God's wrath and punishment on Jesus? I'd say that's the most unjust thing ever done, wouldn't you? C20, I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea that there is a "just" God "up there" who can dole out justice. If there is, there is. But Christians equate "justice" with "perfection or eternal torture". That's the problem I have with it. And I know the passage which says "ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". I think many religions could use a similar rationale-"We're the truth, you can learn and learn, but if you don't accept what we say, you aren't coming to the knowledge of the truth". You accept your religion by faith. Good for you. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! You shouldn't expect everyone else to "just believe" though, in my opinion.
Ok, this is a subject that needs opening up I agree. I am a man. Just a man. Becaus I am just a man there are bound to be things that have happened to me that I just cannot forgive on my own strength. But I am a hypocrite! I have been the worst of the lot! When I think of the things I have done that have deeply hurt peoples feelings I realise what it is that I have truly done. We are people. We know nothing more important than our own survival and when others seem against us it seems like they are trying to assert authority over us. The act of tresspassing against your neighbour is to assume a position of great pride in oneself. This is as bad as murder! So we all have souls. Some believe this and some dont. But for me I know that I have a soul. I know my soul is now immortally characterised by my lifes experiences and it bears the signature of Life itself. It is therefore immortalised. But what of my tresspasses? How can I enter eternal life with baggage that I cannot unload because others do not forgive me? How could we exist together? The fact is that Jesus was sinless. This is so key to understanding the work of the cross. Not only was Jesus sinless (free from the curse of the law which brings death) but He fulfilled the law by laying down His own life for His sheep i.e "us". This means that whoever turns to Him can have their slate wiped totally clean for it is He and He alone that has authority over such matters. He can cast a stone against the adulterer and not be a hypocrite for He Himself has never sinned. However He believes is great mercy and it is this that we live by. Jesus is the Son of God. Anyone who has seen the Son has seen the Father also. peace c20
"Sins of the heart" are NOT equivalent to murder, in my opinion. If I "hate my brother" for 5 seconds, I did not murder him, did I? The book you accept as from God may equate these "minor" sins with very horrible things, but courts in the physical world don't, do they? Sure, if you equate the most minor and perhaps unavoidable "sin" as being so unbelievably horrible which deserves infinite torment, then I guess it makes perfect sense in your mind, doesn't it? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Don't get me wrong. I acknowledge that I have evil in myself. I'd say pretty much everyone is evil to an extent. But I don't consider most people to be only evil. People can also be good.
Yo c20, Quote c20: "How can I enter eternal life with baggage that I cannot unload because others do not forgive me?" I think to err is human. To truly regret ones errors is a far less common human trait. But in this honest regret there dwells a redemption that needs no god for it to exist as a truth. Quote c20: "(free from the curse of the law which brings death)" If you believes the irrational idea that you were born into sin, do not assume that is the truth to others. Smooth.
Quote c20: "How can I enter eternal life with baggage that I cannot unload because others do not forgive me?" stretched: I think to err is human. To truly regret ones errors is a far less common human trait. But in this honest regret there dwells a redemption that needs no god for it to exist as a truth. c20: God is love. It is through love that you are redeemed. There is no greater story of God's love than that of Jesus Christ, The Word of God made flesh. Quote c20: "(free from the curse of the law which brings death)" If you believes the irrational idea that you were born into sin, do not assume that is the truth to others. c20: I know others dont believe this and I certainly dont assume that they do! That is why I say it. To debate it! Those who do believe this already do not need to hear it. The shepard leaves the flock of sheep to rescue those who have strayed. I do this because It is in the SPIRIT of the HOLY Scriptures peace c20
