Americas elections wasnt all that great either and their are other countries al around the world with fucked up democracies. America is also supporting a long line of dicatators and keeping them in power. it just so happens Ukraine has a lot of advnatages to America so thats the only reason they even bothered saying anything.
What a bull. People came to streets THEMSELVES because shitty government of thieves decided to steal the last hope for the better life and human dignity by blatantly rigging elections and conducting a dirty campaign (not to speak of the 10 years of dirty, criminal rule). My guess - Yanukovich's thugs (or Putin's Russia) bought 1 western newspaper article for the domestic use. The very same article was cited in every pro-government Ukrainian and Russian website as a "proof" of opposition's evilness. People do not want to live in the semi-feudal, semi-criminal states. It has nothing to do with USA's marketing. Go to Turkmenistan, taste the life. Even if USA indeed provided some $help$, it was the right move. Even USA can do something right from time to time.
What are those interests, if not a secret? Ukraine does not have oil, it's quite poor country lead by corrupted governments and bureaucracy (corruption is on the par with that in Nigeria). Whatever American interests are, with THAT level of corruption, USA could buy all it wishes (but it didn't). Also, do not forget that $billions$ current Ukrainian elite (lead by the presidential family) stole for the past 10 years are saved mainly in the western banks, etc. A former Ukrainian prime minister spent quite a time in an American prison, I bet he shared lots of interesting info regarding "sensitive" points of his criminal buddy (current president Kuchma). USA could remain "neutral" and have all its interests covered by having all neo Ukrainian ruling elite on the "hook". USA supported quite a lot of semi-criminal dictatorships in the past.
Quite to the contrary. Election rigging was obvious, shameless and brazen. Uncle Sam did not meddle anywhere. Uncle Sam (together with Europian Union) declared that election did not meet world standards, which is 100% truth.
dixonmassey, why are you so uncomfortable with the dual notion that the election was rigged and that the US was involved in supporting and developing those groups opposed to incumbents? Don't you want the US to support the increased democratisation of other nations?
Man you live in the illusion world of your making with big terrible Uncle Sam and innocent lambs (everybody Uncle Sam is barking at). You value a single (most likely "paid for") article for more than thousands pieces of evidence for the election fraud (you did (will) not bother to look for; because it will not fit your world). Consider these facts: Opposition's access to media during election campaign was limited big time. In some eastern regions it looked like an information blocade. If not for internet (not very widespread in Ukraine) and a single TV cable chanel (not accessible to majority of Ukrainians), it would have been almost a total information blocade initiated/enforced by government lead by Yanukovich. In several regions, 30% of voters "voted" at home (i.e. somebody should have driven around give empty&collected filled ballots. This is impossible even in a rich country. It's absolutely impossible in Ukraine. Observers from opposition, journalists were kicked out from majority Eastern polling stations which have shown 97% of votes for Yanukovich. Some election precincts have reported about 104% attendance (97% of those obviously have voted for Yanukovich). Even USSR did not allow such brazen numbers. Mirracle also happened. >20% of voters (in some pro-Yanukovich regions) "voted" in the less than 1 hr time frame after polling stations should have been officially closed. List of evidences is quite lengthly. The length will not change you mind, so I'll not try. Just letting you know that parellel reality exists. Here is link to a pdf file summarizing fraud (according to organization for the security and cooperation in Europe (EU)) http://www.osce.org/documents/odhr/2004/11/3811_en.pdf
Bull. These observers were blind or ignorant, or bought or combination of all 3 things. ALL governors/authorities of Ukrainian regions are centrally appointed (easily fired) and centrally controlled. Reminder, Mr. Yanukovich is a prime minister of a government which appoint local governors and local authorities. The claim that opposition has controlled western Ukraine is a cheap propaganda tool aimed at those who have no clue about Ukrainian realities. It's sad to see that Android has caught the bait. Mr. Yanukovich is known for (fist) striking faces of governors who did not deliver results he wants (prison and mafia upbringing is hard to overcome). Local governments were strongly pro Yanukovich from east to west, they are part of the criminal system (with lots of "sins" easy to exploit), they have no choise but obey or else... Another LIE aimed at people without clue. Mr. Yanukovich dominated media from East to West. Mr. Yanukovich faces of different sizes "embelished" every city/village in Ukraine (no exceptions). TV in Ukraine does not offer 150 channels like in the USA. People are generally too poor to afford cable/satelite; they watch a few centrally broadcasted air TV channels, which are under TOTAL control of the central government and Mr. Yanukovich. Same with state radio broadcasting companies. Local TVs/Radio/Newspaper are under control of local governors (who are directed by Mr. Yanukovich). It's very prudent not to conflict with local authorities by frequently publishing stuff it will not like. The lonely opposition TV channel could be watched only by very limited number of cable TV subscribers. Media was in favor of Mr. Yanukovich in the West and, especially, in the East. Those observers are shameless liers. It's naive to think that government would have selected members of poll stations who would not be easily manipulated into submission. In some places people were more willing to insist on the honest count than in others. I guess it was considered as improper influence. It's like I have kicked you you in the face, you are be about to respond with equal punch. But suddenly a bright thought comes to my mind and I say: "Kicking people in the face is illegal, let's live according to the law. If you want satisfaction, please, file a law suit in a court (whose members are business partners and buddies of mine). We live in a civilized country after all."
Hopefully, semi-criminal dictatorships Mr. Yanukovich stands for (and came from) will be in the past. It's the right side of history as for me. Well, if you consider otherwise, would you be willing to move to Donetsk region (Mr. Yanukovich clan's kingdom) and to enjoy life at its fullest by working in dangerous mines for pennies + drinking vodka, watching mediocre soccer team in action, being brainwashed&intimidated in between? It's not southern Russian dialect. It's not dialect at all. It's a mixture of Russian and Ukrainian words. The level of mixing depends on an individual, there are no limititations. It's spoken everywhere in Ukraine (in the sense of location. Many people speak in more or less proper Russian or Ukrainian.). Strangely, 99.99% of Ukrainian citizens, on both sides of electorial issue, consider such a mix as "a bastardized combination of Ukrainian and Russian" too. Sure, 104% voter's attendance, 98% of those for Yanukovich, - what could be more natural? Even Stalin did not announced such numbers, but who cares. In the less populous west, maximum attendance was around 85%, out of whom, 70-94% voted for Yuschenko. You'd better find some credible sources of fraud in the Western U. So far, you are pulling out creations of deliberate liers.
Allegations of American meddling is one of the more stupider things I've heard regarding the Ukrainian elections. I can understand why we might be sympathetic to Yushchenko, but I can make a much better case for Russian meddling than ours .. especially after this poisoning thing. To android: I suggest you do some research before trying to promote your Ukrainian-angle US-bashing... it's pretty lame and showcases your lack of geo-political knowledge. It's safe to say the lights in Washington DC won't be burning all night if the pro-Russian candidate wins next time. You know why? The Ukraine is still taking it's baby-steps and doesn't have much of an impact on the world stage, nor will it any time soon. You knew that, right? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Considering that the 'battle' for Ukraine is between soviet nostalgists, russian imperialists and communists on the one side against american imperialists, international finance organisations and their economic hit men on the other side, I'm not sure which side I would prefer to win. You ?
I have asked you repeatedly not to post things you have posted in other forums. If you do so again, you will be banned from SciForums.
Allthough it's clear that the pro-russian candidate used fraude it's also clear that George $oro$ had invested a lot of money into the Ukraine to "buy" democracy.
The reason putin won with an 80% lead without having to campaign , has nothing to do with him cheating , he is actually supported by 80%. If 20% of the population dosnt like him, it dosn't mean that its not a democracy; which by deffinition is the power of the majority of the population. I meen, "come on" who would vote for his opposition, one went down to Kiev to get drunk with friends a week before the election campaign another is a well known mafia boss from novgorod, Hakomada (the female candidate) was cleaver, but the common people couldnt trust somthing like that (1%) . He also won by by such a huge margin because russians are scared of change , and with putin the country is reasonably stable and at a rise, the population wouldnt risk choosing anyone else and ending up in deep shit like they did in 1998-9. I guess with you all watching REAL DEMOCRACY as in the two past US elections .. it seems impossible to you that a country can actually support its current leader so much and not end up with recounts or 50/50 splits Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! And if you want to speak about tirants what about Pinochete who the americans put in power. Basically in the world lots of ''revolutions'' (putches) were supported by the US for the only reason of fear of so called communism (which has never existed, even in Cuba).They need governments which can be easily manipulated and benifit the US economy :m: Of course russia probably tried to tilt the election , but so did the us. both sides are interested in the ukrain. However lets refrain from screaming "tirant" and "fake democracy" because that shit just isnt true. IF you want to know which candidate I support then, I hate both the bastards, neither of them wants what is best for ukrain.
