Invasion?!?!?!

Discussion in 'History' started by Preacher_X, Dec 13, 2004.

  1. oscarmitre Registered Senior Member

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    Were your sheep still in quarantine????

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  3. Fenris Wolf Banned Banned

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    New Zealand is not "largely pacifistic". They have had fairly pink leanings in recent times, but overall you've been right in there along with everyone else, even though at times New Zealand reminds one more of a small dog yapping from the sidelines whenever big dogs start fighting. Noisy, annoying as hell, but ineffectual and easily ignored. Or perhaps more like a small boy in a schoolyard, taunting the big kid because he knows full well there are teachers around somewhere who prevent the big kid from simply turning around and snotting you. Let him come up against that same big kid somewhere away from everywhere else, and chances are the big kid won't even know he was there other than a faint dust trail and a lingering smell of shit in the air.

    Fact is, New Zealand has been involved in nearly every war Australia has been - carrying on in your tradition of riding Australia's coattails. You know... wood's all cut, fires are lit and tents are up, and who comes marching in late as per usual? The Kiwis. Just in time for dinner, with the actual work being done by someone else.

    WW1, WW2, Malaya, Borneo, Korea, Vietnam and East Timor, just to list the major conflicts. You missed out on the Boer War, I think (not sure of that one).
    Come to think of it, didn't New Zealand "invade" East Timor along with Australia and the UN? Small point.

    That American nuclear sub which supposedly "invaded" you was invited there by your government, at which point major demonstrations forced an about face, bringing about the demise of the ANZUS treaty.

    Gallipoli was a British operation. The ANZAC contribution was relatively small. Casualty figures should give you a rough idea (combined wounded, missing and killed, approximations only given the nature of the conflict) -
    Britain : 122,000
    France : 50,000
    Australia : 23,000
    New Zealand : 8,000

    Allied armies casualties only, of course, and not counting a couple of smaller participating countries. As you can see, even the French had more troops there than the combined ANZAC forces. In the history books of countries other than New Zealand and Australia, the ANZAC forces at Gallipoli are a footnote. Get the picture?

    One last point on Gallipoli - We lost.

    Now kindly refrain from commenting on matters when you have no idea of even your own countries history, let alone any others. You have a habit of making even CNN look like a wealth of factual information, and that's saying something. Go away and learn something, instead of commenting frequently on these supposedly uneducated Americans. Here's something for you to begin with - "hypocrite". Dictionary. You can figure out the rest.
     
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  5. MoonCatBlue Registered Member

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    Change Australia to Great Britian and you might be on the right track. From 1840 to the end of WWII NZ participated in almost every war that GB was involved in, this includes both Boer Wars. This of course being part of the whole 'support the mother country ethos' that was prevalent in those times.

    East Timor we entered into to help encourage the Indonesians to move out (and quit killing the population as they went).

    Relatively... but given that NZ at that time had a total population base of just over a million and from that base had 110,00 troops in total... that 8,000 was a considerable loss.
     
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  7. Undecided Banned Banned

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    Russia:Vikings,Mongols,French,Austrians-Germans,Germans again.
    China: Northern Tribes, Mongols, the Manchu dynasty, the UK, France, Germany, USA, Russia, and Japan.
    Iran.: Alexander the Great did, the Soviets invaded in the 40's.
     
  8. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    you know there was a jap sub in sydney harbor in WW2

    as for NZ who would WANT to invade

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  9. Fenris Wolf Banned Banned

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    Which started changing after WW2, more slowly than the Australian point of view (ref. Menzies' "We now look to America" speech). You can hardly call Vietnam a British conflict, and that was in the 1960's. Korea also was more an American concern than British, and that was as far back as the 1950's.

    There was a vote held, and East Timor wanted independance. That doesn't change the fact that the Australian-led coalition moved into what was still legally Indonesian territory, nor that the militia groups were comprised of both Indoensians and East Timorese. In purely legal terms, it was an invasion.

    It was important to both Australia and New Zealand - but not to the main players. The way history is taught in both countries, the ANZACS did all the fighting when the British sat around drinking cups of tea and the French... were they even there? The reality is somewhat different.
    What really annoyed me is the ignorance displayed by those very same people who feel justified in lambsting the Americans for every move they make - when a simple glance in a mirror or a history book might show things in a different light.
     
  10. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    23,049
    "There was a vote held, and East Timor wanted independance. That doesn't change the fact that the Australian-led coalition moved into what was still legally Indonesian territory, nor that the militia groups were comprised of both Indoensians and East Timorese. In purely legal terms, it was an invasion."

    actually it was a peace keeping mission which (and i COULD be wrong) was santioned by the UN. It other words its not really any different from our deployment in the solomens. Oh and australia was the only country to requignise indoneasias possesion of east temor, puts a bad spin on the whole thing
     
  11. oscarmitre Registered Senior Member

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    When it comes to Gallipoli I think the mythologies have overtaken the actuality. But every nation should be allowed its legends.

    All countries make foreign policy blunders. It just so happens that during the last half of the 20th Century the US has been the most powerful nation on Earth and therefore to some extent has been living in a goldfish bowl. Of course everything they do will be critiqued. While I might not be too enamoured of the Bush Administration and the PNAC if China is waiting in the wings to take over then keep the Americans number one I say.
     
  12. vslayer Registered Senior Member

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    but why, if china had control then we wolud be communist, fuck america
     
  13. oscarmitre Registered Senior Member

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    Yep it would be totalitarian - nah not my thing.
     
  14. Thersites Registered Senior Member

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    Read Le livre noir du communisme. The activities of the Soviet, Chinese and othe rcommunist parties when they had power were comparable to the Nazis.
     
  15. vslayer Registered Senior Member

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    oscar, totalitarionism is more likely under american control
     
  16. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    “ Originally Posted by MoonCatBlue
    Change Australia to Great Britian and you might be on the right track. From 1840 to the end of WWII NZ participated in almost every war that GB was involved in, this includes both Boer Wars. This of course being part of the whole 'support the mother country ethos' that was prevalent in those times. ”

    Fenris Wolf: "Which started changing after WW2, more slowly than the Australian point of view (ref. Menzies' "We now look to America" speech). You can hardly call Vietnam a British conflict, and that was in the 1960's. Korea also was more an American concern than British, and that was as far back as the 1950's."

    Which is exactly the point MoonCat was making. I am perplexed.
     
  17. geomancer Registered Senior Member

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    Unconquered nations

    I'd like to ask a slightly different question, since there's a big difference between being invaded and being conquered or occupied. For example, the USA has been invaded (by British in War of 1812, Japanese in WWII Hawaii and Alaska) but survived the invasions and maintained its independence. On the other hand, that independence began in 1776, only after a long period of being a British colony (and other parts of the USA were Spanish, French, or Russian colonies). Likewise, New Zealand and Australia were both British colonies before they gained independence.

    I would like to know if there are any nations that have always been independent throughout their history. I don't mean a particular STATE dating from its last political organization, but a NATION meaning a people (or group of peoples) with a history in a territory. I suppose I would accept a nation whose people moved around--e.g., the Anglo-Saxons/English were never subject to the Romans, but after they came to Britain they were conquered by the Normans in 1066.

    So here's the question:

    What nation has never been colonized, conquered, occupied, or governed by an external power -- at least not within the period of its recorded history? In other words, what nation has an uninterrupted history of autonomy? By "nation" I mean a people or a territory.
     
  18. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    Iceland. Greenland.
     
  19. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    and japan
    yes but it was repelled
    rome and britain.



    there is only one i can think of, antarctica.
     
  20. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    iceland was "invaded" by the US during WW2.

    greenland has a number of stratigic US airbases. thule for one.
     
  21. vslayer Registered Senior Member

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    the name eludes me at the moment, but its a small country surrounded by italy.
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I think Japan is the only country that could have claimed that until WWII and even then they struck first.
     
  23. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    the vatican?
     

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