Thiaoouba Prophecy?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by exsto_human, Nov 2, 2003.

?

What's your opinion?

  1. Don't Believe

    44 vote(s)
    62.0%
  2. Believe

    11 vote(s)
    15.5%
  3. Know

    9 vote(s)
    12.7%
  4. Other

    7 vote(s)
    9.9%
  1. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    There isn't a "system" that entraps people into monetary concerns. "Money" is merely the symbol of status, legitimacy and order that people impose upon themselves due to the hardwired nature of belief within the human brain.

    Even though it is a hypothesis, perhaps even theoretical, there is significantly more evidence of this hardwiring of belief than there is that Desmarquet was actually in the company of aliens that want humanity to give up money. The very fact that these "aliens" believe that money is a root of problem for humanity speaks of Desmarquet's ignorance. Surely an advanced species of alien that has observed humanity for as long as Desmarquet claims would understand that it is the power of belief that affects us more than the power of money.

    Desmarquet and Chalko are still full of rubbish. QED.
     
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  3. Robanan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    I see, you are trying to frame me as Desmarquet's cohort?

    I never said that any part of the book is true and never mentioned that you have to believe in things which noone cannot prove wrong. You totally made that conclusion by yourself, since you yourself "believe" that the book is "not true" and all these talkings touches your personal belief system. I openly say that I don't know since I can't either prove or disprove it. So far it has been "you" and "your" cohorts who have kept claiming that the book is "crap", "nonesense", "bullshit", etc. would you have said any of this if you were really sure that you have stomped on a casual scifi? No, So who has his invisible dragon in the cellar? And who is really trying to prove either the book is false or it is true? ME? No my dear I'm trying to tell you that you don't even have a clue so stop mabbling about things that you don't know ok? You don't even know me! And whoooop! I'm Desmarquet's cohort? Who is blinded by his belief system here?
     
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  5. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    Cohort - A group of individuals (subjects) who share a common experience or condition.

    The common experience or condition is clearly the book, "Thiaoouba Prophecy." Otherwise, why take the name that Thao ascribes to the Biblical Adam as your handle in this forum? That you are Desmarquet's cohort is clear.

    And "stomp" on a "casual scifi" show? You haven't been around to hear me go on about The Day After Tomorrow or Star Trek... can't stand that crap.

    I know you. You're obvious to everyone who reads here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2005
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  7. Robanan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    *1 In any given system I can "profit" under specific conditions.
    *2 When I see that people who meet these conditions frequently "profit". I realize that the probability of me to "profit" -providing that I meet those specific conditions- is higher than the probability of me to profit under conditions, other than those specific ones given in the statement *1.

    True/False?

    What I said about the monetary system was just to link the above to that part of the story of the book...you don't reason like a human, you reason like a machine. You just pick up keywords and frame them without considering the meaning of sentences and paragraphs, not talking about patterns. I don't wonder why you seem so lost in desmarquet's book. You don't simply get messages as a whole. The whole thing seems to you as a cocktail of "unverifiable" Data. You force your belief system and then say that, "it is the power of belief that affects us more than the power of money" ?
     
  8. Robanan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    Wrong! again...
    You want to say that I experienced the book the same way Michel did?

    ohohoho my dear how could you make such a mistake? Again you are considering that the book is "crap" first, before making other assumptions and conclusions. Even though that would make me a fantastic story teller, So where is what you call a fantastic story now eh? And you are still trying to prove that I fit into your equations? How pathetic...

    As if you are not. Do you even know how sad it sounds?
     
  9. Squeak22 4th Level Human Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    176
    Nice avoid of the question. The fact that you can't produce such lists lends to your fanaticism.



    Do we know that time can stop? No. Relative time can slow down when approaching the spead of light to the point where it APPEARS to stop to other refernce points, but it doesn't really stop.
     
  10. Robanan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    The fact that you "want" to frame me lends to your total failure in bringing up any valid argument.
     
  11. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,232
    I just invested ten or fifteen minutes in reading this entire thread. Robanan, help me make that investment worthwhile. You have been at pains to counter objections by Squeak and SkinWalker and others. I know, therefore, what you are against. It is not at all clear what you are for. Care to elucidate.
    [And thanks for spelling monetary correctly. The illiteracy of some of the posters was bringing me close to vomiting.]
     
  12. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    The definition also included the term "condition," but when you want to troll message forums, why bother with completeness. But, yes, I think you want to experience the pulp you call a "book" the way Desmarquet did. Why else would you chose the screen name that Desmarquet claims Thao called the mythical Judeo-Christian figure Adam?

    No need. Your trolling and inability to communicate with a riposte of intellect and instead resort to one of child-like banter proves my point nicely.

    Indeed.


    It is my hope and desire to be obvious to all who read what I write here.

    Your next step will probably be to go around to a few other threads and post there so you can argue that you weren't here just for the Thiaooba threads.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2005
  13. Robanan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    "Learning" has always been a wonderful experience for me, throughout my whole life. The point that I'm making is very simple. "None" of us, no matter how intelligent we think we are can say: "Hey, I've learnt everything, I know everything, and everything I've learnt and everything I know is true".

    The reason is also very simple. The more you learn, the more you understand that you have to learn, new horizons appear in front of you. I agree with everyone who says and understands that "we are only limited by our own intellect and imagination" since the more I've learnt in my life the more I've understood that I really have an unlimited potential to learn

    I demand elementary respect to and/or understanding of the fact that anyone may decide to experience conscious learning at any moment of the life they are living. Let me add that It "also" depends on the "thing(s)" that can give you a good motivation to start with.

    Currently there is not enough phisical "evidence" to justify that what is written in the book we are discussing is either "truth" or "lies". The "proof" may never be enough... (to either prove the contents of the book to be "truth" or "lies")

    By considering "all" the information written in the book (fantasy or not), I think of it as a good motivator toward very specific things. The lable "Believing is not enough, you need to know" is more of a warning rather than a claim. The book covers a vast amount of topics, and it's readers naturally are not experts of all those topics and in most cases the information and knowledge they have is either limited or it doesn't match with what is written in the book. So throughout reading the whole book they are "naturally" led to believe in some of it. Some people notice it right away some people don't. In general It is relied upon the individual responsibility of the reader toward him/her own self so as to take care about what they understand from the book as "fiction" , "knowledge", "belief", "reality" etc.

    SkinWalker doesn't know what I had for breakfast today, If I tell him/her by phone or in a post, he/she will need to believe in me, If he/she trusts me there is a relatively high probability that he/she will, If he/she does not trust me there would be a relativelty little probability that he/she would believe me. But if we had breakfast together he/she would have had known, no matter he/she trusts me or not.

    [It was the first time in my life ever, that I came across the word "Elucidate", English is my third language, I speak five languages and I understand more than 8 languages in written form, I found the word a very beautiful one, thank you...]
     
  14. Robanan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    So the book is the "experience" or the "condition"? You can use both expressions, only when you can't say the difference. So you can't even tell me why and how was I wrong in considering the book as an "experience" and not as a "condition"?

    How can I? Don't you see that your own formula's are taking your arguments down down deeper into unreal impossible nonsense?

    You show your lack of imagination limited by your own egoism. If to tell the truth I wanted to be "Omic" on this forum. I found it misleading since I was first motivated to discuss the "Thiaoouba Prophecy" book. Would it have made any difference? You and your cohorts would have tried to frame me in some other way, anyway.

    You and me clearly have a different understanding of "What is Intellect" to say the least. It is not clear what you call "child-like banter" and it is not clear also what is the point that you want to make so desperately.

    Good

    I might make a few posts to the "Intelligence & Machines" forum though as myself am a specialist of computer sciences. That is totally up to me and clearly none of anyones business. It is enough for everyone on this forum to know that I have an Intrest in discussing the "Thiaoouba Prophecy" book. I'm open to such discussions all the time. I'm a researcher willing to learn. You will know when I would want to argue something with you...rest assured!
     
  15. Robanan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    SkinWalker, I have read your analysis of the book over and over, The information you included in your assumptions as excerpts from the book is simply "not complete". If I was to use the words I learnt from you, it means that you didn't bother yourself and "trolled" the book? You really expect people to trust you and the "results" of your analysis?
     
  16. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    Because I'm skeptical of the book's premises as well as the motivations of those that would defend it as a source of knowledge I'm the one guilty of "egoism?" Perhaps. But I've yet to see either you or your cohorts (you know, the other Thiaoouba Fantasy proponents, Desmarquet, et al) give a legitimate reason for accepting the work as anything more than poorly contrived fiction.

    Then perhaps we got off on the wrong foot. I must admit it was a set of posts from you early on in this thread that included:

    Hey that fish looks like an idiot - which was to a moderator of the sciforums.

    yes, SO? - in response to my opinion about the nature of belief as it relates to the drive for status and thus the use of money as a tool to obtain that status and satisfy beliefs.

    I just want to get a feel for this "many" you speak of... - Squeak asking how "many" people believe the book to be true...

    Imagine as many as would make you feel agitated. - you giving an answer I perceived as "child-like."

    The point I'm making is that Desmarquet is lying to all readers by saying that his book is a true account. If he marketed it as a fantasy, I'd probably not have commented on it at all.

    If I've been unfair in my posts to you because I've misunderstood your intentions, then accept my apologies. But if you are, as I've believed to date, a proponent of the "Thiaoouba Prophecy," then I've always subscribed to the notion that there are those for whom it is one's duty to offend.
     
  17. Robanan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    You have all rights to confront the book with skepticism. Everything that goes around, comes around...

    1.I didn't have anything special to respond about your opinion toward the nature of belief. I thought that you are right and correct as long as I considered the context of your idea; though I cannot agree with you, if you tried to say that the author of the book wants to gain status by using money as a tool to satisfy a belief system. Be aware that one can make terrible mistakes while trying to intercept who belives in what.

    2. I didn't want to answer the question Squeak asked. Since even if I could give an exact and correct answer to him, it wouldn't have been a "proof" of anything at all. It turns out that "A childish question, was given a childish answer", fair enough.

    3. The moderator understood that I'm not going to answer his question either. I emphasized that none of us are idiots here. His contribution toward making this point clear was precious.

    About 6 years ago I had the same problem with the "Celestine Prophecy" series of books. No matter what James Redfield says about his series of books, I still took the risk of duplicating a similar scenario (as in those books) in my life. I don't regret it since I was led to find out more about aura's and the nature of energy in general. I found the "Thiaoouba Prophecy" exactly at this moment...coincidence? Now I'm led to find out more about Nature itself and the essence of information processing in general. I'm not suggesting anything.

    Same here

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  18. Squeak22 4th Level Human Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    176
    I was hoping seriously that you would either produced a list of a few people so I could look through their work, and then your answer just made me mad. To me it seemed that you were making up information to support your opinion about this book, without and basis for the statements/comments. I work with people who do this all day, and it's probably one of my biggest pet peeves, which is why the next comment happened. They should really get rid of this quick reply option.

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  19. exsto_human Transitional Registered Senior Member

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    473
  20. Robanan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    I never wanted you to get mad I wanted us all to resolve all our issues first, prior to moving any further. I can recommend to you a good advice of my own father: "Never Stop, not even on your own ideas" in other words it could help you as it helped me to make a clear definition of what you want to find by yourself and google it!

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    [it seems that I also made a mistake in my interpretation of your intentions]
     
  21. spirit Registered Member

    Messages:
    9

    On the contrary, if one would study how, not physically, but psychologically how the monetary system started, it would still boil down to the fact that it is the power of belief how it started. Specifically the belief of having personal items of value, and the feeling of greed.

    The fact the early man started as a communal individual, that is, what one has is not just for that individual, but the society, can attest to that point. You can still see this evidence in existing tribes even today. Males hunt for the whole society and so forth. Some tribes in the Philippines still has those qualities. There is lack of monetary system, which makes the society harmonious. The sense of value does not specifically arise from material things, but rather on the abstract, like skill and wisdom. It is fascinating that we can learn so much from the simple.

    So money may be a symbol of order that arises from need. But this need is ideological. That idea comes from the belief that the world will be a better place if we started to have things on our own and thus we must develop items to measure the value of things. But why do we need to? Why did early man developed it? For the main reason that they fought tooth and nails when greed arises. So they developed it, not to supress greed, but to satisfy it without fighting. And that is just Humanities I.

    So I think some people who have read Thiaooba Prophecy may have misinterpreted it at that point. What the book is trying to tell is that the problem is not the set of monetary rules, the symbol, or even the physical money. It is the intent of having the system. The idea behind. Which is quite simple. Greed.

    What the aliens are trying to say is that having the monetary system drives humanity to greed. But of course, humanity has a choice. To be greedy with the monetary system or not. It is obvious what most of humanity chose.

    But without the system and belief, how then can you be greedy without suffering the persecution of the society?

    And greed is a bad thing right? =)

    We must look deeper than the surface. Always.

    Thank you very much!
     
  22. Silas asimovbot Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,116
    ^ This is your first post here??

    Well, while the old thread has been dug up, lets not waste it.
    Just to point out a common fallacy made by the credulous about people who argue that they want better proof, who make comparisons like this who tells who had what breakfast scenario. The crucial difference between believing what Robanan had for breakfast and believing that the Thiahouba guy travelled instantly to distant stars and had meetings with aliens (and do please correct me on any detail I have wrong) is, surely, more than obvious. We don't believe Desmarquet because what he says is incredible and fantastic.

    I haven't read the book, only the web site, and I'm afraid it's not really the work of a "fantastic" story teller in the sense of "superlative". Nothing worse than science fiction by people who are not regular science fiction authors and consumers. Two films as cases in point, The Stepford Wives - as if the inventors of the sex robot would hide them away and keep for themselves, instead of selling the perfect wife robot to the world and making themselves billionaires, and Donnie Darko which was based on a seriously scientifically-illiterate concept of time travel.

    Yes, indeed one of the most beautiful in the English language, comparable to "cellar door" for euphony.
     
  23. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    Thank you for your post, Spirit. I would have to agree with that statement above. I do think that belief is the origin of the monetary system and probably a progenitor of the rise of complexity in human society as a whole. I humans didn't actually believe that some of their fellow humans were deserving of higher status in their societies, then chiefdoms and kingdoms couldn't have formed. If they hadn't believed in seeking prosperity as a human right (the inalienable right to seek happiness); others believing that their position a birthright -be it one of lowly status or elite, then we might never have had rulers that organized labor for agricultural needs, irrigation, or creation of public and monumental architecture. We sure wouldn't have had warfare -at least not on the scale we see in humanity.

    But I would have to disagree that "greed" is an evil thing.

    I think greed simply is. It is neither good nor evil, but a characteristic of humanity that is a motivating factor in nearly everything we do.

    The mother who drowns in an attempt to save her toddler who has fallen in a river isn't necessarily altruistic: she's acting on a primal emotion, which has the purpose to motivate procreation. She's being "greedy." That isn't necessarily evil.
     

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