for atheists

Unfortunately, your junk is my treasure. I am sorry you don't value your life as I do, but I won't mind if you let me own you.

 

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physics,

Why do you think we will die soon compared to the universe time? We have evolved from very simple beginnings and we have only just achieved self-awareness. We should now be able to go on to control our own destiny and ensure our own unlimited survival, either as a race or as individuals.

If the universe is infinite as expected then why should we not also be capable of an infinite existence? Why are you so pessimistic?

The greatest danger to our survival are the religionists who through their ignorant misguided fatalistic beliefs prevent the rest of humanity from making the breakthroughs needed in science and technology. For example setting limits on stem cell research at this critical stage of scientific development is one of the greatest crimes to humanity for centuries.

Cris

 

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Knockle Dragers of the World!

I am certain were I will go after death!

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And you can too! The soul and spirit of a man is immortal! It will spend eternity somewhere, ether Heaven in 'Paradise', or the fires of Hell, in Hell they lift up there eyes!

Je'sus is the only one that can save you all from the Second Death! Hell, and then the 'Lake of Fire'!

The Bible, you have been tought to scorn is very real in history and fact! Je'sus says: "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." (Matthew24:35 KJV)

That is the 'first' and 'second' Heaven! The Earth and it's atomusphear, and all space beyond that! God's thone is in the 'third' Heaven! (beyond time & space as we know it!)

Christians know where we are going! Glory, Glory, Glory!

We have meaning! And you will not simply go out of existance ever! You will suffer, or you will rejoyce forever, and you will be wide awake!

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Somewhere! Live and learn that you are far more then just an animal! You are a creature created in the image of GOD your Creator! He love you and does not want you destroyed in Hell! Trust Je'sus! No matter what you have done, He still can save you from the 2cd. Death to come! Je'sus save any that will call on His name! Anyone!

At Je'sus's crusifxition at Calvery, He was hung between two 'thieves', and they where in pain! (Luke 23:39-43 KJV): 39)"And one of the malefactors which was hanged railed on Him, saying, if thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40) But the other answering rebuked him, saying Dost not thou fear GOD, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41) And we indeed justly; for we receive the due rewards for our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42) And he said this unto Je'sus, Lord, remember me when thou cometh into thy kingdom.
43) And Je'sus said unto him, Verily, I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

He, the thief, went to Heaven with Je'sus! By simple Faith! You all can too! it's not over for you untill its over! You have hope in life! Only the damned in Hell need be singing your sad songs of hopelessness, and disspare! JE'SUS is waiting! He SAVES! He can set you free form that 'black hole' you are in!

May GOD have mercey on your souls!

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physicsforums.com

Wow aren't you a little ray of Sunshine.:bugeye: NOT!

oK tis a simple answer to the original thread..

If heaven is so wonderful and the world is but a mere hell hole compared to the loving grace of Gods abode, then i say why do the religious not shoot themselves first and go to God's loving arms, thus giving the rest of us some peace! .... whats that? ... its a sin to committ suicide? .... No heaven if you shoot yourself?...... Oh lordy me!!!

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Well ok, Just take your butt on down to the worst nastiest gang bangin town you can find and preech the word of God rather loudly, let the locals of that area know that they are all sinners and a waste of space and that maybe they should end it all.

Im sure you will be enjoying the lords lounge chairs and sipping tea with mosses before you finish your first sentence, and yes, you will die while doing something as "Noble" as telling people to Shoot themselves for not loving your God!

Your a true champion, a real .."Ned Flanders"...

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..NOT!

If this is truely an athiests only shot at life , dont you think they should stick around and make the most of it?

cheers
RazZ:bugeye:

 

You don't seem to understand physicsforums. If my death will be the definite end for my, why would I try and get there as quickly as possible? Why would I not enjoy my life, knowing one day it will be over? I enjoy my life regardless of what you think, and your opinion on atheism does not change that.

a race that will die soon compared to the universe time. everything you do will be done in vain and in the end be a waste your your energy.

When you say this, keep in mind all the doctors who have developed cures and immunizations for various diseases such as smallpox. Where it not for their small contribution to humanity, there's a very good chance you would not be here. If you value your life at all, you will realize what a selfish and arrogant statement you just made.

Plus, there is a very good chance we will acheive immortality in one form or another. You seem to be so sure the human race will die out soon, and while I can see where you're coming from (with the threat of nuclear war ever-present and so on) I doubt an entire race would be so ignorent as to destroy themselves over petty issues. Governments realize this, people realize this, and I don't think a full scale nuclear war will every be reached.

Xelios, whether you die now or die later doesn't matter, you will die and if there is no afterlife then now is as good as later.

I just can't believe you actually think that way. It makes no sense at all. If there is no afterlife, why the hell would now be a good a time as any to die? If there was the promise of perfection waiting for you after death I could understand you wanted to get there as soon as possible....

if something begins meaningless and ends meaningless then the middle must be meaningless.

So, if your mother was an atheist, your life is meaningless as her birth to you was also meaningless (because her whole life was meaningless). What a comforthing thought.

Think about what you are saying here physics...

 

Poor atheist!

Razz,

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There is hope for your people in this world! And that is in JE'SUS the Son of GOD! The Earth is His creation! But we are 'fallen' nature apart from God and His Son! We have only to look to Him! He can forgive us our every sins and your eyes 'would' be opened! Science is cool, but the GOD that created you, has something far far better in mind, instead of just living and dieing! You were created in the image of GOD! Made just a little lower then the Angels in Heaven! Cheer up! You have an awsome meaning and purpose in life, and that to come!

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JE'SUS still saves! You shall see one day soon with your own eyes! Yes it's Truth! That GOD is GOD Supreme! And the Earth itself shall be far better then it is today! God knows the ending from the begaining! To enjoy the better world to come, TRUST JE'SUS as saviour and Lord! He is GOD!

 

Loone, please, I just want an honest answer. Are you planning on continuing these posts that are really nothing more than Bible propeganda and repetition, or are you planning on actually putting some substance in your posts? I just want a simple, honest answer, because I'm about ready to decide if I want you on ignore or not.

Thanks.

 

Poor Poor Athiest!

Xelios, JE'SUS loves you!

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And there is hope in this mixed up world! The Bible is very real, and historical fact! And it is supernatural! The 'Living Word of GOD' To mankind! You have hope! You have hope! You live and learn young man! You have hope in life and that to come! JE'SUS saves souls, as of you!

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Live and learn the TRUTH OF THUTH, from the Book of Books! The Heavens Declares the Glory of GOD!! Soon time shall be no more! But GOD and His Word endureth forever!

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Amen!!

 

Do suicide terrorists realize this? I think you give third world countries too much credit.

just to let you know i am basing my thoughts on Existentialism. It makes perfect sense. When you die Xelios, your whole history is erased, everything you liked, loved or cared about is now nothingness. If you end in nothingness then what is the point of being something now? To live out a few pewny years because your selfish? You might as well never have been created if there is no hope of afterlife. Dying now is as good as dying later Xelios, what do you have to gain from living? Lets say you reach the ripe old age of 80 and your on your death bed, you look back at your life and think, I am dying now, i might have just dyed when i was 15, because although I had many experiences they are now wiped away as if they never happened in the first place and result into nothingness. So Dying at 15 is the same as dying at 80, the result is the same.

this is exactly everyones problem! everyone is looking for an elegant and meaningful purpose to death and life. this is the reason religion was created, to control and comfort. people, face the facts, life and death aren't pretty, this is the cold hard facts. we are meer particles that quickly difuse down into nothingness back into the universe and where do all our experiences go? where do they count after we are dead? they are useless. death and life are ugly, but lets atleast stop trying to fool ouseleves into some kind of meaningful bs.

 

Ok, I'm afraid I'll have to put you on ignore. I have no right to stop you from spreading the good word about your beliefs, but I do have the right not to listen to it (or see it in this case). Sorry, but you've really left me no choice.

 

Do suicide terrorists realize this? I think you give third world countries too much credit.

Suicide terrorists will not be able to get their hands on enough nuclear warheads to cause a nuclear winter, they pose only a small threat to humanity as a whole. Third world countries know as well as we do a nuclear winter will kill every living thing on the planet. No sane person would do this, and I'm sure an entire country cannot be insane.

When you die Xelios, your whole history is erased, everything you liked, loved or cared about is now nothingness.

There's an error right off the bat. Your children will remember you, everything you liked loved or cared about. With time, it will be lost, but your contribution to the world will never be lost.

So Dying at 15 is the same as dying at 80, the result is the same.

No, it's not. Again, tell that to the inventor of penecillan or the "cure" for smallpox. Because they lived their full life, they influenced the world in a way that allowed millions of other people to have their chance at life, and contribute their part to the whole.

this is exactly everyones problem! everyone is looking for an elegant and meaningful purpose to death and life. this is the reason religion was created, to control and comfort.

I agree.

where do they count after we are dead? they are useless.

I disagree. They are not useless. See above.

death and life are ugly, but lets atleast stop trying to fool ouseleves into some kind of meaningful bs.

That's exactly what I've been trying to say since I got here. But that does not mean we should all simply kill ourselves now and be done with it.

 

Xelios, it seems we are finally coming to a conclusion or understanding, i think you for this dicussion.

never? nothing lasts forever, not even the universe, everything will be lost at some point again refueling my point. Even if you make a contribution that lasts eons, it all ends in nothingness and everyone you affected will become meaningless. so the result is still meaningless.

no, i never said we all should do this, no no no. remember I am not an atheist. I said any TRUE atheist should by reason, kill themselves. If they don't then they are not a true atheist, becuase it implys he/she believes in some afterlife or continuation. or atleast has doubt.

 

never? nothing lasts forever, not even the universe, everything will be lost at some point again refueling my point.

Fine, not never, but a very long time from now. Until the end of the human race how about? Then again, it may never end... yes, never.

If they don't then they are not a true atheist, becuase it implys he/she believes in some afterlife or continuation. or atleast has doubt.

And I say any true theist would kill themselves now and get to heaven right away. If they don't, it implies he/she is still unsure whether there really is an afterlife, ie. has doubt.

 

Originally posted by physicsforums.com

I do not see where you get your certainty concerning the universe. If nothing lasts forever, then where did the universe come from? From nothing? The very fact of existence means there is something that has to last forever. Either that or our very concepts of time and "forever" are generally flawed.

Now, if anything can last forever and at the same time carry information (such as our visible universe does and therefore by implication so does whatever it is that gives existence to known universe) -- then it means that at least in principle information can last forever.

There is a problem with "meaningless". Meaning is in the eye of the beholder, so what you find meaningful I might find meaningless and vice versa. In that light, I do not agree with you that as a matter of necessity information must degrade. It is true that the laws of entropy predict a thermodynamic death for the known universe, but that in itself does not imply that information generated within the known universe is confined to the known universe. In other words, there may be a way to escape thermodynamic death. At the very least, one has no grounds for being as certain as you seem to be about its inevitability.

I consider myself a true atheist. And yes, I do believe in continuation. But not in terms of afterlife or necessarily transhumanism. Even if I am, as an individual, obliterated with no chance of resurrection, there was still a brief period in the history of the universe when I as individual consciously affected the universe's state. The universe's state, in turn, is causally propagating so that as long as the universe continues to exist I would have had a conscious effect upon it. IOW, it will bear my personal fingerprints. Which is potentially true even of any future information or being that descends from humanity and manages to transcend thermodynamic death. I do not see myself as some sort of an isolated, dislocated entity; I am part of the universe's state, and in my being I embody information that is in direct feedback with other local aspects of the universe's state, which are in turn eventually in feedback with at least a great swath of the known universe if not with the entire known universe.

 

well, i am done with this conversation, all that can be said has been said. most of the time i was playing the devil advocate for the sake of greater understanding.

thanks everyone for participating especially Xelios

 

james, i suggest you read the above converstation and you'll see my reply

 

But physics, if you were playing devil's advocate then we don't know what you think do we? So your reply to JR isn't very helpful.

Or did you really mean all that nonsense you posted?

It would certainly have been more respectful if you had been more open and honest.

Cris

 

i was honest, all along I said I wasn't sure what I was, i am confused, so i am open to everything, i wanted to push the envelope. I believe a mix of mine and X's thoughts.

 

What in the...?

I enjoy living. Its fun.

Good for you. I'm proud. No, I really am. Really.

It isn't meaningless. I derive a great deal of meaning from my life. If you don't, then hey, thats your problem, pallie.

To whom? Obviously, something can't 'matter' without there existing a being to whom that thing 'matters'. So.. who are you talking about? Are you subconciously implying a deity?

Why should I care? No, don't dismiss this... I'm actually curious why I should care about any of this.

Almost never does not equal never.

Perhaps you are incapable of creating your own purpose. I, and most other atheists, are quite capable of it.

Why? Because you said so? If you are going to make up these little rules, and least have the decency to explain your reasoning behind them.

Well, you've come close to hitting on a primary reason for atheism. We don't try to fool ourselves into finding meaning. We simply create it for ourselves.

Let me get this straight. You're saying that because we are atheists, and have no belief in an afterlife, we should end early the existence we DO have? Whereas the religious folk who are assured that after death, they will continue on for eternity should live on as long as they can. I, for one, intend to keep my own existence intact as long as I can, because to the best of my knowledge, its the only one I get.

Well you came off as a recovering Catholic

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Hope you develop your own answers,
FyreStar