Scientologist Levels Charge of "Pseudoscience"

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by ylooshi, Jun 27, 2005.

  1. ylooshi breakingspells.net Registered Senior Member

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    ... at the science of psychiatry!

    http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/322208p-275490c.html

    Tom Cruise lambasted the Today show's Matt Lauer Thurs., 6/23 about the "dangers" of psychiatry and psychiatric drugs.

    I think I'm in agreement that there is some over-medication, particularly with kids who are labeled as "hyperactive" or "attention deficit," however, I was very close to a kid once that was truly ADD and I noticed tremendous improvement in his performance in school at an age crucial to his learning to improve his reading and comprehension. Without the Ritilan, he very likely wouldn't have learned to read.

    But back to Cruise. How does a guy that is involved with the cult of scientology (the cult that believes that humanity is haunted by the souls of long-dead aliens) have the gall to point a finger at an established discipline and not back up his assertions with facts. All he was apparently able and willing to say was, "you don't know the history of psychiatry, Matt, I do."

    Maybe Tom Cruise, a high school dropout, had some close involvement with a head shrink as a kid. After all, he guy still thinks he can make everyone believe he's a heterosexual simply by proposing to a gorgeous chick.

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    By the way, here's an interesting article from a fringe "news" source that is critical of the NY Daily News article above: http://www.profindpages.com/news/2005/06/25/MN1004.htm

    And a Washington Post article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/24/AR2005062401866.html

    I don't post much, but read a lot of what's here. Even though the "Moscow" news article above is from a pretty much fringe source, I have to agree with its retort that the Daily News article uses "aliens" as a point of ridicule. I'm not definately not siding with Scientology on the alien souls thing, but it is interesting how so-called mainstream news sources like to use terms like "alien" as a means ridiculing someone.

    Yenald Looshi
     
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  3. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    You answered your own question! Because he is a member of the Church of scientology and believes that humanity is haunted by the souls of long dead aliens.

    My brother and I laughed about this all day, as we saw the interview that morning. Our classmates didn't know what to make ouf our comments, apparently none of them have ever taken an interst to research scientology.

    That said, there are valid poitns to be made about overmedication, and of pseudo scientific ideas creeping into psychology, but you really do have to pay attention to wether or not you are listening to a scientologists about it. They still talk about electro shock therapy as if it was happening now, and they believe the most baseless dreck, that may not directly destroy brain cells, but will certianly relieve you of your excess wealth, and your contact with friends and family who dont believe.
     
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  5. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    locked
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2005
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  7. grazzhoppa yawwn Valued Senior Member

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    Allow I do not know anything of scientology, what Tom Cruise said, "there is no chemical imbalance," about mental health and current medications is not entirely off base. There are many mental health disorders that are linked and treated through the same chemicals in the brain. Serotonin and dopamine are the 2 most publicized neurochemicals, and are the targets of modern, accepted medicines for a variety of unrelated mental problems. Serotonin is used to treat sleep disorders, depression, and memory disorders. He also said that current medications "mask the problem" which is also a valid argument. Scientists do not know exactly how chemicals like seratonin and dopamine directly influence a person's behaviour. Scientists also do not know why seratonin may be a fabulous cure for one person but may have no effect on somebody else.

    They may know practical cures, like increasing the level of a neurochemical helps with a problem, but they do not know the theory behind it. Most mental health medications are treating symptoms.

    Matt Laurer's agrument was that these medications make people feel better, "isn't that enough?" Cruise says (I'm paraphrasing) that throughout the history of psychiatry, it could be considered psuedoscience because of the methods they used, like electroshock had no scientific base.

    I suggest you to view the interview http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8343367/ .

    Cruise's arguments in that interview are not crazy. Although, he mentioned only once, in the interview, that psychiatry is a pseudoscience, which I do not agree with and think that comment is far fetched. I believe that psychiatry has distanced itself from its history and can be considered a valid science, BUT, doctors are too readily prescribing (and patients are too willing) to take medications to cure non critical disorders.

    I once went to my family M.D, who wasn't an acredited psychiatrist, and asked for something to help me out with depression. He only asked a few general questions and gave me about 2 months worth of "trial" pills and a prescription for Zoloft that same visit. Too easily obtainable? Yes.
     
  8. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    Well, the medical field is not science perse. It might be based on science.
     
  9. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    I only saw part of the interview, but from what I saw, cruise didn't seem too crazy.

    I for one, am confused as to why suddenly so many kids are diagnosed with ADD. Is it contagious? Is there a known cause? Why suddenly now? Surely, ADD is a product of modern living, too much stimulation of infants/young children by TV etc, and recent changes in dietary habits? We don't need to medicate the symptoms away, and kid ourselves we've solved the problem. What we need to do is look into the causes of this phenomenon, and change the way we raise kids. Our brains don't evolve fast enough for this problem to exist there. Our environment has changed fast enough to throw our brains off however. Lets look outside ourselves for a sure for this one.
     
  10. Thersites Registered Senior Member

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    Interesting thought for the conspiracy theorists among us: are the scientologists and similar oddballs encouraged to pre-empt discussion of important matters- such as overprescription of psychotropic drugs- and make them seem ridiculous?
     
  11. Silas asimovbot Registered Senior Member

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    I think Tom Cruise's experience with "psychiatry" probably stems from psychotherapy he may have undergone himself, or seen (undoubtedly many) friends undergo. Psychoanalysis of the kind Hollywood stars queue up to have is the epitome of pseudoscience.

    I myself was very impressed when I first read Freud in translation, in particular The Interpretation of Dreams and Jokes and Their Relation to the Unconscious. What Freud did that was good was bury the idea of demons and possession, and to really study the problems of the mind in a rational manner. But he drew conclusions without any firm data. There is no experiment or evidence to show the supposed division of the mind into Ego, Id and Superego. Even Freud himself said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar", but there was never any empirical data to indicate that a cigar was ever anything else, never mind "any long thin object represents the penis, and for a woman a dream about flying also represents the penis."

    He got good therapeutic results, probably simply by dint of treating his patients with compassion and understanding, which was not generally forthcoming from people handling the mentally disturbed in the nineteenth century.

    And yet, over a century later, it's still a mainstream multimillion dollar industry! Which is not to say that there have not been genuine strides in psychiatry, most notably cognitive studies (plus psychopharmacology).
     
  12. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Of course you've got to take into account that he feels that the actual problem is that the souls of long dead aliens - thetans - are clogging people's "neurodynes" and causing either too few or too many engrams (I can't remember whether you're supposed to want more or less engrams) and only special scientology therapy like fiddling around with one of those machines you see in bars some times where you grab a pair of bulls horns that have a gradually increasing electrical current running through them, or speaking with one of their priests or trained therapists or whatever they call them through a coffee can with a string attached to it running to another coffee can.

    Whether or not there is a problem with modern psychology is a bit moot when someone like Tom Cruise is bringing up the issue.
     
  13. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    Soon he will be calling cancer medicin quack science because they can't cure all cancer.

    It's medicin people. They don't have all the answers. They have to do with what they have right now. Obviously no doctor gets a standard training in science (i know, because they are crap at it when they first start). The medical 'industry' is not science. It is a profession that happens to try to cure people. Some of these treatments are actually based on science, some on pseudo or what i might call 'shitty' science. That is life. Get over it cruise. We don't complain about your acting being pseudo acting do we? Well we do actually...so...moan away Tom.
     
  14. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    I just think it's important how we frame this sort of discussion, and if we were to allow scientologists to be the main advocates for reforms in the practice of psychology well. . . needless to say that the discussion of reforms would likely come to a quick end.

    Oh! By the way: Battlefeild Earth was a doccumentary, and the events took place in real time.
     
  15. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    People don't believe me when I tell them that Battlefield Earth was like Jhon Travoltas "Passion of the Christ"
     
  16. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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  17. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Haha good link, SkinWalker, I love how scientologists insist that Electroshock therapy is still going on to this day.
     
  18. terpinator72 Science = Ecclesisates 1 V 18 Registered Senior Member

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    Your retarded. Scientology was founded by a female, and has nothing to do with aliens.

    WOW THAT WAS HILARIOUS
     
  19. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    You don't seem to know very much about Scientology. Scientology was started by Sci-Fi author L. Ron Hubbard (some say as a bet with Robert Heinlen to see which of them could start a legitimate cult with their writings - Stranger in a Strange Land suposidly being Heinlen's side of the bet), and his book Dianetics.

    Also, Scientology has everything to do with Aliens, plenty of exposes have been written on this subject. I advise you go to http://www.xenu.net to learn a bit more.

    In short, Scientologists believe that souls of aliens that were bought to earth during it's primordial early days, put into volcanoes, and then nuked by the evil space general Xenu are clogging some imaginary structure in our brains called a nurodyne or something like that. These souls are called thetans and the level to which they have clogged our nurodynes are measured in "engrams". Scientologists believe that, through a number of hoaky treatments, they have found a way to "clear" a person of these thetans in their nurodynes which are responsible for all illnesses social disorders, and basically badness in the world - especially mental illness (which is why they hate actual psychology, as it directly contradicts their teachings).
     
  20. Gondolin Hell hath no fury like squid Registered Senior Member

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    Well, sounds believable to me. Im all in.

    I saw Cruise's interview and he has turned into a complete and total nutjob. Poor guy!
     
  21. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    Scientology also believes that all this flesh and a billion years of evolution are in our way and needs to be gotten rid of, eventually leading to an etherial existence. Of course that means increasing separation from those un-enlightened... right up to denouncing one's friends, spouse, kids, etc. A common derogatory term for the rest of us is Genetic Entities.

    The good thing is that this makes it very hard for them to reproduce.

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  22. ylooshi breakingspells.net Registered Senior Member

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    I'm confused: you assert that I'm "retarded" because I'm allegedly mistaken about the origin of Scientology as well as one of its core tenents?

    Come now, sir. Mental retardation is typically characterized by IQ's of less than 70.

    By the way: http://www.religioustolerance.org/scientol1.htm

    and: http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/cchr-cult-faq.htm

    No need to apologize, but I do expect you edit your post above to reflect reality. I may not be completely knowledgeable about Scientology, but it is apparent that I am more so than you.
     
  23. Thersites Registered Senior Member

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    Doctors don't dose out medicines to cancer to people with unrelated diseases on the off-chance they might work.
    Unfortunately they do try to do things even when they don't work or are going to do far more harm in the long term. The reason there are so many antibiotic resistant illnesses is because doctors gave out antibiotics like sweets, regardless of how serious the illness was or whether the patient would actually take the full dose.
    Many on profit. It is, as you say, an industry. I tsometimes gives inappropriate treatments. The fact that psychiatric illnesses are the most vaguely defined of all- and often aren't illnesses at all- means that the biggest opportunity to profit is there.
    An example of what i said above: get a kook to complain about a genuine cause for concern and you can make other peole not notice that it is a cause for concern.
     

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