it is impossible to die

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by esoterik_appeal, Jun 6, 2005.

  1. Rosnet Philomorpher Registered Senior Member

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    I would like to point out something. You argue that although we may die in one universe, there are other universes in which we don't die. Even if this is true, wouldn't the reverse also apply? Even though we are living (now) in this universe, there are others in which we aren't. So if you can say that it is impossible to die, by the same token, I say that it is impossible to live.
     
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  3. esoterik_appeal H. pylori Registered Senior Member

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    ^ i don't think you've read the thread. that's fine if that's what you think, but pretty much everything i've written previously has built a logical case against what you wrote. the reverse cannot apply. what you wrote contradicts itself.
     
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  5. MacZ Caroline Registered Senior Member

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    This may be be a completely stupid question but I have to ask. What is it about "dying" as opposed to say, simply fainting, that effects this shift? Passing out ends the current "reality" too, doesn't it? If it doesn't, how do you know that - how do you know what the difference is between the two?
     
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  7. inuyaSHA0004 all shalt bow before me! Registered Senior Member

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    life is not a cycle because eventually the sun will turn into a giant and not long after that it will explode so then the cycle will end and life will cease to exist in our galaxy.
    it is not a good picture in the long run but by then we will be dead and gone.
    but also there is the possibility that after we die we are reborn in another life on earth or else where
     
  8. esoterik_appeal H. pylori Registered Senior Member

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    MacZ- it doesn't matter, frankly. every instant countless new realities are possible, but only the one you experience matters to you. all but the one you experience are really just "potentials", as far as you're concerned anyway.

    inuyasha- by the time the Sun expands, either we won't live in this solar system, or we will possess the technology to prevent this from happening.
     
  9. esoterik appeal h. pylori Registered Senior Member

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    i guess i have to shamelessly self-promote.

    Summary: you cannot die, you just fade into gradually less aware states of being, unless you stumble into a reality in which humanity devises a way to live forever; which it will, at this stage of the game, be possible to live forever (barring some kind of major catastropy).
     
  10. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    Esoterik Appeal:

    There is no proof that other realities exist. Until such is proven, your theory is rooted in nothing.
     
  11. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    death could be many many things, non existance of the mind and body, a transfer, a gateway, an answer, a life, a bonding or absorbtion,

    but anyway maybe you are immortal but personally i dont think you are for the reason you gave, other "you's" in alternate dimentions are infact not you, there is only one you. well i might be wrong who knows human mind is too small to understand all of this but its worth talking about.
     
  12. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    There really is no death, but not for the reasons listed. You see the body is immortal, it started over 3 billion years ago and hasn't stopped since, and the mind you think of as your own was really inherited through culture. Everyone is a flower on a larger tree, and we don't say a tree dies every time a flower falls off. Because death really does not exist it is impossible for you to experience it. What you do experience is the void or emptiness you feel upon the disappearance of someone's body. Death can never be experienced and neither can birth for that matter. In your natural state, where the body is allowed to function without the interference of thought, birth and death are going on all the time.
     
  13. Onefinity Registered Senior Member

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    Great stuff. Reminds me of Wednesday, when I was in a fifth grade class. I told the kids that the atoms making up their bodies are 12 billion years old. They were pretty amazed by the thought. And when we went into history, I asked them "Where is history?" After getting some of the usual replies, I shared my view that history is inside of them. The history of the universe, the history of life on earth, the history of many societies - all are contained in them. In their bodies and their minds. And that is why we study history: to unpack what is in them.
     
  14. KitNyx Registered Senior Member

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    As a variant of this theory, do we create (or choose) our own realities (yes, sticking to the multiverse theory). For instance, I watch a freak who jumps off a building because he thinks he can fly. I watch him fall to the ground "SPLAT" simply because I know he cannot fly, but sometimes I wonder if that is what he sees. If he believes he can fly can he? I have read in psychology that we cannot or willnot "see" anything that our mind cannot perceive of, so if I cannot perceive of "his" reality then of course my mind will make "my" reality true. It becomes a question of Schroedinger's cat, does it fall into every possible state, but our "consciensnous" follows that which we can most easily conceive? So can two people follow different spacetime lines into two different futures/ universes? Of course, we will never know because all we can know is our own.

    - KitNyx
     
  15. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    You mean Bedward the Flying Preacher of Jamaica?

    Yes, we do create our own realities which are confined by certain physical limitations. But he could percieve the splat as a kiss from God, and another would percieve it as the ground.
     
  16. esoterik appeal h. pylori Registered Senior Member

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    yes, yes. star dust and all that.

    my contention has only to do with your immaterial self.
     
  17. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    Esoterik Appeal:

    Then I'm afraid you must prove that immaterial substances exist? Then tackle the Mind-Body Problem of immaterial substances interacting with the material and vice versa.
     
  18. GodlessEvil God is dead Registered Senior Member

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    Quantum immortality theory is dumb, what happens when you are like a billion years old, where is the line drawn?
     
  19. kriminal99 Registered Senior Member

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    Do you really believe the rubbish shoved down your throat by psychologists?

    In any case, if there is any reason to believe in the "parallel universe" point of view, how exactly would your life span be continued infinitely? A) I only see myself controlling one "parallel universe" not jumping ship when my existence in one has problems or anything else. B) Eventually you would die in all of them. Xeno's paradox in theory works for time too, yet time always marches on. (Probably because Xeno's Paradox is bull, but that's beside the point.) Saying you will live forever, even considering the parallel universe consious inhabiting still alive stuff, is no different then saying 3:00 this afternoon will never come and go because the time up to it can be divided into infinitely small quantities. (Again theres no reason to believe this, but without worrying about why this has been disproven as many times as you want to think about it)
     
  20. GodlessEvil God is dead Registered Senior Member

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    We can say things like:
    "hey the other day i nearly got run over and killed by a car, the reason i did not is because i switched to a universe where i do not get hit"

    There is something known as decoherence (theoretical) which in simple terms basically means that quantum immortality does not occur under normal macroscopic conditions, an experiment has to be set up that goes round the decoherence.

    If we die in a hospital of cancer, that death is very slow in quantum terms, to beat the system one would have to die instantly in fractions of a nanosecond so the YOU stays the same rather than being the one who gets killed.

    I suppose the best test would be to go out and get a hydrogen bomb...no buy loads and connect them up to a computer that only blows the bombs up from a set computer command.

    Now write a computer program that can search for lottery results over the internet,program it so that it will command the nuclear bombs all to go off if the lottery numbers you have printed on your lottery ticket DO NOT COME UP.

    So in this experiment the bombs will ALWAYS explode in your house if you do not win the lottery,so you don't win it you die, if you win it you live.

    You should according to quantum immortality live and be a millionaire everytime.

    Disclaimer:
    should anyone carry out this experiment, i shall not be held responsible for any injury or death that should occur.
     
  21. DT Strain Registered Senior Member

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    While the total number of possibilities may be the same in both cases (infinite), their total PROBABILITY is not the same. Therefore, it is MUCH more likely that you will end up in a quantum universe in which you die, than otherwise.
     
  22. esoterik appeal h. pylori Registered Senior Member

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    yes, but you are alive in all of these instances. you experience all of them simultaneuosly. the ones in which you die simply don't matter anymore to you.
     
  23. dixxyman Registered Senior Member

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    I do not believe that the quantam world affects our "life" in the sense of being after
    death. I believe our physical body deteriorates; our spiritual being continues to exist.
    But passing through walls is not a priority for spiritual beings. Existence is being. Priorities are determined by circumstances that are past and/or present, chosen for a purpose. Any potential that becomes reality then is in the future. Spiritual beings are not hampered by the necessities of time. They exist outside of time. Thus no future.
     

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