actualy dont think there is an answer to the question "why do we exist" but people keep telling me that one day we may know. in fact i dont think at all its possible to understand our existance.
Aware, Yes that's good. Neuroscience will help you understand how self-awareness is a function of brain power (intelligence) and enables humans to say "I think therefore I am", which no other animal can do. But it doesn't answer the question why we exist. But the question really doesn't make any sense unless you start from the assumption that a creating intelligence created us and had a reason for doing so. If we are the result of adaptation, genetic mutations, natural selection, etc, then we exist because of those natural processes. And all of those processes are pretty mindless. Cris
right. the true definition of science to me is the study of the physical world. (world meening everything physical) scientist can explain and even show us brain patterns and what nots about our bodies. but they cannot show us why we are aware of ourselves. they can only give us examples of what they would believe would make one aware. i agree that everything might have happened naturaly and that there is no sort of intelegents in the matter at all. but i beleive that all of us have, are, and will be again aware of ourselves in some form or another at some point in time. if i were to never have existed in the first place, then i would not believe this.
Bambi, I'm not disagreeing with your perspective I'm just presenting a different POV "Then such a god can never have a new thought -- and never could. " Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Precisely, because there positively cannot be anything new. ie: Does infinite not cover the possibility of impossibility? "Moreover, such a god still cannot know all of itself. And moreover, such a god can only be secondary to some encompassing universe." Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Another POV is that God would know all of itself and all its knowledge is instantaneous.The universe or some universe as you imagine began in time 'God' being eternal(even pre-eternity) transcends time, even in ways I can only try to imagine, thus as time starts in eternity with the universe or universes biginning in time, all began in 'God'. And I sense your argument could be used to assert that deity may be qualitatively diverse. Peace Amp
Has anyone read 'P. J. Farmers- The Green Mask' Its Sci-Fi but the point of is it spoke of the universe being a living organism with all the things living in its many 'Cells' contributing to its growth and eventual maturation into active conscieousness an analogy I consider relevant to the universe we are in. This may be what you mean when you refer to a Finite 'God' Bambi, a deity that began in time and is experientailly eventuating. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Peace Amp
Re: Bambi, I'm not disagreeing with your perspective Originally posted by Amp Um, no. That's an impossibility. Knowing all of yourself involves knowing about your own knowledge, which includes your knowledge about your own knowledge, which includes...and so on to infinity. I'm sorry, but that makes even less sense than your typical fortune cookie. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! So the next question would be, where did time and the deity's encompassing universe come from, and how did the deity begin. If you can answer that, then you can answer the question of our time, our universe, and our beginning without involving any deity.
Hi Bambi, Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Originally posted by Bambi “Um, no.” then why do u use fuzzy logic and try to twist the meanings of the thoughts expressed? Like this for instance “Knowing all of yourself involves knowing about your own knowledge, which includes your knowledge about your own knowledge, which includes...and so on to infinity.” That’s pretty fuzzy logic you’re forcing the redundancy, I think you feign misunderstanding of what’s stated. I know that you know that I know … “how did the deity begin?” The concept of Deity probably came about after creation when there were enough intelligences/personalities to discern the ‘Universal Father’, the causeless cause. It is false and probably illogical to ask when something eternal began. BTW Bambi The Finite God is called the 'Supreme Being'. check this out:4. THE FINITE GOD 117:4.1 God the Supreme is the finite Deity, and he must cope with the problems of the finite in the total sense of that word. Our struggles with the vicissitudes of time in the evolutions of space are reflections of his efforts to achieve reality of self and completion of sovereignty within the sphere of action which his evolving nature is expanding to the outermost limits of possibility. 117:4.2 Throughout the grand universe the Supreme struggles for expression. His divine evolution is in measure predicated on the wisdom-action of every personality in existence. When a human being chooses eternal survival, he is cocreating destiny; and in the life of this ascending mortal the finite God finds an increased measure of personality self-realization and an enlargement of experiential sovereignty. But if a creature rejects the eternal career, that part of the Supreme which was dependent on this creature's choice experiences inescapable delay, a deprivation which must be compensated by substitutional or collateral experience; as for the personality of the nonsurvivor, it is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the Deity of the Supreme. 117:4.3 God is so trusting, so loving, that he gives a portion of his divine nature into the hands of even human beings for safekeeping and self-realization. The Father nature, the Adjuster presence, is indestructible regardless of the choice of the mortal being. The child of the Supreme, the evolving self, can be destroyed notwithstanding that the potentially unifying personality of such a misguided self will persist as a factor of the Deity of Supremacy. 117:4.4 The human personality can truly destroy individuality of creaturehood, and though all that was worth while in the life of such a cosmic suicide will persist, these qualities will not persist as an individual creature. The Supreme will again find expression in the creatures of the universes but never again as that particular person; the unique personality of a nonascender returns to the Supreme as a drop of water returns to the sea. 117:4.5 Any isolated action of the personal parts of the finite is comparatively irrelevant to the eventual appearance of the Supreme Whole, but the whole is nonetheless dependent on the total acts of the manifold parts. The personality of the individual mortal is insignificant in the face of the total of Supremacy, but the personality of each human being represents an irreplaceable meaning-value in the finite; personality, having once been expressed, never again finds identical expression except in the continuing existence of that living personality. 117:4.6 And so, as we strive for self-expression, the Supreme is striving in us, and with us, for deity expression. As we find the Father, so has the Supreme again found the Paradise Creator of all things. As we master the problems of self-realization, so is the God of experience achieving almighty supremacy in the universes of time and space. 117:4.7 Mankind does not ascend effortlessly in the universe, neither does the Supreme evolve without purposeful and intelligent action. Creatures do not attain perfection by mere passivity, nor can the spirit of Supremacy factualize the power of the Almighty without unceasing service ministry to the finite creation. 117:4.8 The temporal relation of man to the Supreme is the foundation for cosmic morality, the universal sensitivity to, and acceptance of, duty. This is a morality which transcends the temporal sense of relative right and wrong; it is a morality directly predicated on the self-conscious creature's appreciation of experiential obligation to experiential Deity. Mortal man and all other finite creatures are created out of the living potential of energy, mind, and spirit existent in the Supreme. It is upon the Supreme that the Adjuster-mortal ascender draws for the creation of the immortal and divine character of a finaliter. It is out of the very reality of the Supreme that the Adjuster, with the consent of the human will, weaves the patterns of the eternal nature of an ascending son of God. 117:4.9 The evolution of Adjuster progress in the spiritualizing and eternalizing of a human personality is directly productive of an enlargement of the sovereignty of the Supreme. Such achievements in human evolution are at the same time achievements in the evolutionary actualization of the Supreme. While it is true that creatures could not evolve without the Supreme, it is probably also true that the evolution of the Supreme can never be fully attained independent of the completed evolution of all creatures. Herein lies the great cosmic responsibility of self-conscious personalities: That Supreme Deity is in a certain sense dependent on the choosing of the mortal will. And the mutual progression of creature evolution and of Supreme evolution is faithfully and fully indicated to the Ancients of Days over the inscrutable mechanisms of universe reflectivity. 117:4.10 The great challenge that has been given to mortal man is this: Will you decide to personalize the experiencible value meanings of the cosmos into your own evolving selfhood? or by rejecting survival, will you allow these secrets of Supremacy to lie dormant, awaiting the action of another creature at some other time who will in his way attempt a creature contribution to the evolution of the finite God? But that will be his contribution to the Supreme, not yours. 117:4.11 The great struggle of this universe age is between the potential and the actual -- the seeking for actualization by all that is as yet unexpressed. If mortal man proceeds upon the Paradise adventure, he is following the motions of time, which flow as currents within the stream of eternity; if mortal man rejects the eternal career, he is moving counter to the stream of events in the finite universes. The mechanical creation moves on inexorably in accordance with the unfolding purpose of the Paradise Father , but the volitional creation has the choice of accepting or of rejecting the role of personality participation in the adventure of eternity. Mortal man cannot destroy the supreme values of human existence, but he can very definitely prevent the evolution of these values in his own personal experience. To the extent that the human self thus refuses to take part in the Paradise ascent, to just that extent is the Supreme delayed in achieving divinity expression in the grand universe. 117:4.12 Into the keeping of mortal man has been given not only the Adjuster presence of the Paradise Father but also control over the destiny of an infinitesimal fraction of the future of the Supreme. For as man attains human destiny, so does the Supreme achieve destiny on deity levels. 117:4.13 And so the decision awaits each of you as it once awaited each of us: Will you fail the God of time, who is so dependent upon the decisions of the finite mind? will you fail the Supreme personality of the universes by the slothfulness of animalistic retrogression? will you fail the great brother of all creatures, who is so dependent on each creature? can you allow yourself to pass into the realm of the unrealized when before you lies the enchanting vista of the universe career -- the divine discovery of the Paradise Father and the divine participation in the search for, and the evolution of, the God of Supremacy? 117:4.14 God's gifts -- his bestowal of reality -- are not divorcements from himself; he does not alienate creation from himself, but he has set up tensions in the creations circling Paradise. God first loves man and confers upon him the potential of immortality -- eternal reality. And as man loves God, so does man become eternal in actuality. And here is mystery: The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality -- actuality -- of that man. The more man withdraws from God, the more nearly he approaches nonreality -- cessation of existence. When man consecrates his will to the doing of the Father's will, when man gives God all that he has, then does God make that man more than he is. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Peace Amp
