American Decline

Discussion in 'World Events' started by tetra, Jan 18, 2002.

  1. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    "War and Anti-war" by Alvin Toffler can provide a better scenario to the future than what happened in 1500. The world is getting more complex. The past is not exactly a guide to the future. The future is non-linear. It all depends on the paradigm shift.
     
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  3. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    Different subject matter than what Professor Kennedy addresses. In War and Anti-War the Tofflers (you forgot Heidi

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    ) put forward the idea of a new strategic "triad'' for global warfare below the threshold of thermonuclear extinction. In what they envision as a three-way clash of civilizations among agrarian, industrial, and post-industrial societies, the Tofflers argue that "Third Wave" warfare will be successfully fought through the combined deployment of "niche" special forces units, overwhelming use of "information-driven" air power, and "information warfare."

    Peace.
     
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  5. kmguru Staff Member

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    The destination is the same..."American decline".

    I did not forget Heidi - proof reading the text....

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  7. josharuni Registered Member

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    Trim down american overreach and focus more of domestic issues.

    It's hard to say wether we're decling or not. But one
    thing is for certain: we need to start fixing internal America.
    I just graduated from high school and the only thing that really
    struck me as phenomenol was the number of dim witted students walking around. A majority of American youth are sadly ill equiped to survive in college or compete with their international counterparts in the world market.
    From what I can see, America needs to rethink its priorities. Education, science and better U.S. products to compete in the international market might be a good start.
     
  8. kmguru Staff Member

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    The reason there are so many dumb high school kids is that towards the last 2 or 3 years, these kids start working to supplement their games, clothing, car and other stuff. They spend more time in these subjects than what is happening in business, technology and science. So, by the the time they go fulltime in the job market, their interest has so much narrowed that they can not digest new information. It is too late for the brain to form new connections.

    This happened to my kids too in a lower scale. I had to work with them for quite sometime for the changes to become permanent and natural. Their friends were not so lucky.

    So I agree with you Josharani...Our president wants to have retired professionals get involved in big brother and teaching projects. But, there is no tax break to work with these kids. I think, state requires one to have a teaching certificate even if one is a professional to teach to high school/middle school students.

    The prosesses need to be fixed to make it work. Until then, the decline will continue.
     
  9. josharuni Registered Member

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    Most definitely, youth is so focused of recreation and entertainment that they give little consideration to the topics that will really be needed in their future. I don't understand why the president or congress has really gave great consideration to our mentally stunted teenager, or if they have, why are they not working overtime to correct the problem. They are spending to much of our budget and time on big businesses and political scandals. In the long run those issues will not mean jack if our population in ridden with undereducated citizens.

    The problem is already starting to shape itself in the way our people view politics and world issues: people are starting to care less, they understand less, and therefore are slowly regressing into a passive standpoint. Most people I interact with in my everyday life never even mention a political or national issue. Ya know why? Because they don't think it effects them. Furthermore, they wouldn't have the slightest clue on what to do about it.
    We need to educate our population about politics.

    However, I disagree with you on one point Kmguru, neurons can still make new connections. That they couldn't was a view diminished when recent evidence has shown that a human's brain forges new connection all the time. It is only a matter of how much knowledge our brain decides to consume. So, our kids still have a chance. Parents better start spending more time with their kids, and not just buying them video games and movies.
     
  10. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    I believe we are evolving into a nation of managers, the other nations becoming our workforce. It's part of the global economy and its evolution. I think that Britain is an economic example of the path which America is walking. Nike is also a good example of things to come.
     
  11. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    I did not say, neurons can not make new connections. In fact, it is one of my main teachings ( I teach Yoga of Knowledge, as a hobby). However, the old adage that you can not teach old dogs new tricks also apply to humans if the the original flexibility is not maintained from childhood. How many people you know that hated spinach or broccoli in childhood and love it when grown up knowing it is good for you? Very few and I am one of them. It takes a lot of work for behavior modification as you grow older (like after 35).

    The other part is, we are heading into trouble. Look at H1-B visas. We import a lot of people from overseas to do our computer work even though we invented the darn thing. Too many kids take the easy route of fun and games.

    Turning the country in to pure service industries will reduce the income level and hence buying power which will have a domino effect in GDP. If you are only going to consume, you better have something to sell so that you can buy the stuff China, Korea will be making. In the past, we exported high ticket items at high profit margin and imported low margin commodities. I hope, we do not head like Argentina that declined in the last 40 years from a rich country to a bankcrupt one.
     
  12. josharuni Registered Member

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    21
    nation of managers!!??

    A nation of managers as an evolutionary path for America?
    I hope not.
    As other nations increase in power and economic growth they will retain more and more of their workforce and if our global workforce shrinks and looses credibility at the same time (as it is doing now) then pretty soon we wont have two legs to stand on. It's an over exaggeration of course but in years to come it could pose as a mounting threat.
    Once again, problems like this could be avoided if we will simply pay more attention to education and make it a top priority. People are ignoring the problem, thinking that kids will get the idea that they have to do better or America will collapse on their own. better education equals better workforce equals prosperity in America.
    and that's that.
     
  13. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    I would add to the "better education": the right type of education. The present education is built on the last industrial model. All the top managers today came from that model. I have a friend whose expertise is in Information Technology. He recently went to an interview for a state government job to re-architect their IT because the old stuff is not working and employees are over worked and running in circles. The first thing they asked him is that if he can program software. He said, that is not what he does best. He provides the blue print for people to use and do the actual coding. He said it is like asking the designer of Sears tower to also go high up and do the welding on the steel beams, and when done, finish the plumbing.

    It looks like the state government is going to hire the plumber to design the 120 story building. The people in the interview could not understand the difference. No wonder we are in such a sad shape.

    Add to that a nation of lawyers and managers with not much background in advanced science or technology....
     
  14. Is America declining?

    Interesting question, I was thinking about this the other day. No doubt it will decline eventually, no great civillization lasts forever.

    Has it started declining already, I don't think so. It's still the richest and most powerful nation on earth, but with Bush in power it's a bit of a worry. Is it just me, or does anyone else find some of his comments to be, er, slightly crazy?

    Socially, yes I think it's declining. Yet this is happening all over the world and is not restricted to the U.S (even though it may be happening there on a larger scale). Stuff like poverty, drugs, decline in education, school yard shootings, privatization, mindless consumerism, anti-intellectualism, crime etc.

    America has to be careful to not get too arrogant and start alienating it's allies. Australia has dutifully supported the U.S in their campaign against Afganistan, yet the U.S has thanked us by puting tariffs on steel imports, something which our economy relies on (nice way to show your appreciation America

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    ).

    I think that, if anything, arrogance will be responsible for America's inevitable decline. No nation exists in a vaccum, power brings with it responsibility. And as America is the only remaining super power I would like to see a bit more global accountability coming from this nation.

    Io
     
  15. josharuni Registered Member

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    21
    agree.

    Yeah, Bush is starting to worry me.

    As for American arrogance.......
    I suppose that's true. We are a tad bit overbearing (understatement).
    One can only hope that the American government will start taking accountability for its mistakes.
    Actually, I good book to read into would be Blowback

    I've always been extremely patriotic and arrogant in my own way regarding American supremecy, but after reading this book I feel downright guilty. Our government has commited so many attrocities and shamed so many other nations that I think it's time we start making global apologies.
    Most Americans are totally unaware of what the American government does overseas, and what they hear is usaully void of the real mess that's going on.
     
  16. Re: agree.

    Yes, that's true. It's not restricted to the U.S either, the same ignorance/arrogance is found throughout the west. What you wrote above applies to all western countries.

    This site outlines some of the atrocities commited by America, before I saw it I really had no idea. It's made by a U.S citizen, some of the other pages tend to be a *tad* extremist, but it's good that the information is out there:

    http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/ChronologyofTerror.html

    Io
     
  17. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    josharuni,

    <i>"I just graduated from high school..."</i>

    Somehow you make me feel better about our youth. You might be an exception, however. What I've seen are kids who are motivated by their toys. Buying those things which they desire requires money. They seem to adapt very well when their time arrives.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2002
  18. Malaclypse Perturber Registered Senior Member

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    198
    let us discern now what we are refering to....

    ...when people talk about AMERICA.....AMERICAN.....USA...in reference to subjects mentioned, we need to discern whether we are refering to the PEOPLE or THE lousy GOVERNMENT.
     
  19. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    When Americans talk about America, American, USA US, they always mean "We the People...." Since our government does not intrude in our daily lives, we forget there is a government!

    When Outsiders (except Canadians, I think) talk about America, American, US, US did yhis, US did that.....they always mean the Government.

    In fact I just had a word fight with an Australian on the subject on this very forum.
     
  20. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    5,331
    Re: let us discern now what we are refering to....

    Why do we necessarily need to differentiate? "Government of the people, by the people and for the people." Is it not all the same?
    You cannot be serious. And The Fish never forgets there is a government.

    Peace.
     
  21. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    That is because the Fish lives, out of all the places, in Maryland!!! Once I had to see a client in South Carolina. My guide (account manager) said, even FBI people are afraid to go to the interior of this state.

    It depends on where you live I suppose.
     
  22. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    Make no mistake... regardless of your state of residence, "The Government" has vast arbitrary power over you.

    You cannot use your land if a government inspector discovers a wet area on it. You cannot get the money in your bank account if an IRS agent decides you may have dodged taxes, You cannot keep the cash in your wallet if a DEA dog sniffs at your pants. Your home is your castle -- except if a politician covets the land your house is built on, or if your house is more than fifty years old, or if you have too many relatives living with you, or if you have old cars parked in your driveway, or if you wants to add a porch or deck. Your use of your own property is presumed illegal until approved by multiple zoning and planning commissions.

    Those are just a few off the top of the head.
    Oh yes, thank God they don't interfere with our daily lives.

    Peace.
     
  23. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

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    2,235
    Goofyfish ...

    Re. "Oh yes, thank God they don't interfere with our daily lives."

    That is, unless you're a female who wants to have an abortion.

    I do hope you were being facetious ...

    Take care

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