This is from the special FX department. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! This image is made in 3D by someone at http://www.cgsociety.org/ The autor: http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3282&page=
is it that you want objective evidence of a ghost? if it was not a ghost then how do you provide evidence of it? in order to begin to understand what the phenomena was, that was later identified (correctly or not) as a ghost, you need to share that experience in the most objective way possible, i would say. is it really wasting time? are you wasting time talking to me? you wasted time saying you did not want to hear about it unless there was objective evidence, which of course was quite obviously something that was not going to be demonstrated this by the member opening the thread if your trying to fit the claim to certain criteria. no one has aked you to believe that ghosts exist, have they? these illusions are not interesting to you? is there nothing interesting in how a mind creates these illusions? how did this claimant in particular come to the conclusion that his epxerience was something "extraordinary"?
Ellion – Isn’t that what we are discussing? Doesn’t that depend on what it is? Which means under scientific conditions which was my original suggestion. It is unless some evidence is presented. Probably. Those who make religious and superstitious claims need to be constantly reminded about the need for evidence? The claim is for ghosts – that is extraordinary with no precedent. Why is it relevant whether I have been asked or not? How would you know if they are illusions except under controlled conditions? A good discussion for the science forums and not the religion forum. Which would be interesting if investigated under controlled conditions. Kat
i don think we, are are we? we are discussing, or we should be discussing somebodies experience, which is believed to be a visitation of a ghost. no ghost has been presented for discussion. qazoo was open to discussing his experience. this is exactly my point! what is it that we were asked to consider? an experience, a memory, the story is the evidence. the subjective event is the object for discussion. it does not mean that at all! we are on a forum not in a laboratory! the most objective way possible is arrived at by beating a path to it, starting with what ever thread of evidence we have. evidence of what? how is the unknown to be evidenced if you do not first seek to know it? they do not. it is you that has the need here. it is you that needs to remind them. they will get on with life without your authority. there is no such claim there is a request for explotration of an event, qqazzo it would seem to me, has a mind open to being corrected. it is relevant because you said "there is no reason to believe ghosts exist.." and my point is no one has aked you to believe ghosts exist. it is a forum, how do you set up those conditions on a webpage?
Ellion – From the opening post – ” Well, start laughing, because I can talk from person experience. I have a few ghost stories.” Looks to me like a claim for ghosts. I would have liked the next step be to see the stories backed by some meaningful supporting evidence. Seems like a reasonable request to me so it is not clear why you have taken great pains and at great length to find issue with that position, and continue to do so. Kat
Kat: while i do still think that qazoo was more likely sharing his expereince as opposed to an actual ghost i can see how you could easily misinterpret it, so fair point, to be honest, i was simply seeking to know more about your attitude. this was not my sole motivation but it is the reason for those great pains you where a blessed witness to.
There appears to be a standard error being made by several posters, on both sides of the debate. The presumption is that when someone says 'ghost' they mean the visible (or audible) presence of the spirit of a previously living person. This presumption can readily get in the way of fruitful discussion. 'Ghost', however, is best used in the same way that UFO is properly used to mean an unidentified flying object, not as a synonym for an ET spaceship. I propose that the discussion could proceed in a smoother manner, with less bitching, if the presumption of 'dead spirit' was removed from the equation.
agreed, in fact the discussion would be much more fruitful if all such presumptions, prerequsite criterion and personal ideoligies where put aside so we could look at what was actually being presented to us by qazoo.
ggazoo: you may find this site interesting, like minded people. http://the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com/
ghost ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gst) n. The spirit of a dead person, especially one believed to appear in bodily likeness to living persons or to haunt former habitats. It is therefore not a presumption, but an understanding based upon the word that was used. It would probably be pertinent for the thread starter to use the right phrases or terms if he did not want us 'presuming' he was referring to dead people. The threads title is "ghosts", not "I saw something I can't explain and I'd like an opinion on it". Perhaps then it would be best for the thread title to be changed to 'sighting of an unknown phenomenon'. You can clearly see by the thread starters post that he is indeed implying dead people, and as such I felt it pertinent to ask why he presumes it has to be dead people instead of something entirely different. Of course that would be made easier if he actually cited his 'stories' instead of just stating he has stories and then vanishing.. like a ghost. It seems to me that his idea was not to cite any stories but instead to simply get an idea of what other people's stances are regarding 'ghosts'. As such, every post made afterwards is valid. Regards
The 2nd post asking for evidence probably frightened him away. Now we'll never know. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
- It is an essential ingredient of religion and if it doesn�t exist then all religions are nonsense. Seems like a pretty fundamental issue to me. - Because, surprisingly, many people have the strange idea that they do have a soul.
geeser -thanks for the link. I posted this before I the holidays, so I've been spending time with my family... sorry, I should have waited until after Christmas. I'm hesitant to tell my story, only because, quite simply, I can't provide any evidence. Explaining what I experienced would be an exercise in redundancy since you guys weren't there, so you wouldn't be able to validate or disprove what I saw, and or heard. Only my mom and my four cousins can account for that, since they were there with me. Thanks for all the replies though, it's been an interesting read.
Well I wouldn't let that put you off. All you hear day in and day out around this place are stories without evidence, one more wont hurt. At the very least I'm certain it would be interesting to read.
